ADVC-100 vs ATI Radeon - Screenshots

[rhegedus]

All the experts are going to suggest the ADVC-100 is only available to people with a least one brain cell

Yeah man, you're giving those of us with two brain cells a bad name!

[Will Hay]

re-ecalibrate your printer?
Do you mean just reset it or is it a little more to it than that?
Will

recalibrate the monitor, go to control panel and there is gamma correction or something like that can't tell now cos my work pc is different.
Merry Christmas to u too.

You beat me to it by a fraction of a second.
I just changed 'printer' to 'monitor'
Thanks man.
Willl

[Will Hay]

Hey Rob
What do yo think of the latest picture (considering it was taken via seventeen miles of cable, through four floors, a slate roof, the neighbour's kitty door and my mother-in-laws sock drawer)?
Will

[rhegedus]

Not bad - can you e-mail me the original?

Rob

[Will Hay]

Not bad - can you e-mail me the original?

Rob

Nope
Yeah, sure, but like I say, remember the signal matey, it's gonna have an effect.
To be honest, if that's the worst it's gonna be (before I hook the satellite directly - after the hols) then I'm dead happy, I can live with that quality.
Actually, now I think about it I may have reduced that pic in size so I'll do a couple more and e-mail to you tonight.
What you want them for Rob, and what is your opinion on why they look so dark on my monitor yet good on my TV?
Will

[rhegedus]

As for the pic you posted, yeah - I'd give her one. The signal's not too bad either

Sorry - I've got that Friday Crunchie feeling............

[Will Hay]

Shit, when did I hit 3k posts?
Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



just been for my 3rd free lunch of the week..........
Will

[FulciLives]

Shit, when did I hit 3k posts?
Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



just been for my 3rd free lunch of the week..........
Will

You have SO many posts because you insist on posting like 3 or 4 times in a row and yes I have noticed it in other threads AS WELL AS this one!

Merry Christmas

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Will Hay]

Shit, when did I hit 3k posts?
Man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



just been for my 3rd free lunch of the week..........
Will

You have SO many posts because you insist on posting like 3 or 4 times in a row and yes I have noticed it in other threads AS WELL AS this one!

oops, pistol-whipped
I'll stop, sorry

Merry Christmas

You too.
Will

[spectroelectro]

Will Hay claimed: "Please folks, don't be under any illusion - the quality I'm getting from the ADVC-100 at the present time (without any colour adjustment in TMPGEnc) is unacceptable to me. "

Since the screen captures are essentially indistinguishable from one another, the obvious answer is self-delusion. This happens all the time, particularly in high-end audio. Objective double-blind tests have shown no audible difference twixt $10,000-a-foot mercury-filled super-high-end rubber audio cables and Radio Shack $3.95 audio cables, yet self-deluded people continue to convince themselves that ultra-high-end mega-expensive linear crystal oxide free copper (and other types of) high end audio cables somehow magically "improve the sound."

The acid test here is the objective double-blind experimental test. Since the screen captures look essentially indistinguishable for either the ADVC-100 or the ATI on my computer monitor, here is what you should try to elimiante the self-delusion factor (also known as "the placebo effect"):

[1] Capture identical segments of video with the ADVC-100 and the ATi card. Encode 'em with identical software (TMPG, for example) and rename the MPG files.

[2] Now write a short batch file to randomly rename the MPG files and write an identifier file telling which file was renamed to what. For instance, this short batch file might rename FILE1.MPG to FILE7.MPG and then write an entry in a .TXT file that says "FILE1.MPG was renamed FILE7.MPG."

[3] Take the renamed MPG files and burn 'em to DVD. Do not look at the identifier TXT file that tells you which original file was renamed to what.

[4] Play the DVD for a group of people and ask them to tell whether the video clip was captured with the AVCD-100 or the ATI card.

[5] Now read the identifier file and compare the viewers' responses with a normal distribution. You will need to do some statistical work, particularly with Students T-distribution to make sure that intrasubject variance is not => intersubject variance. Unless you have a very large sample group, you should avoid exte4nsive ANOVA because the variance is sensitive to the exact shape of the distribution, and if it's not very close to a normal distribution this could skew your results.

For more detail on using objective double-blind experiments to eliminate "the placebo effect" in subjective claims like these, see the chapter "Baloney Detection Kit" in Carl Sagan's excellent book "The Demon-Haunted World."

[rhegedus]

Since the screen captures are essentially indistinguishable from one another, the obvious answer is self-delusion.

Erm......... which captures are you talking about? There's clear difference between them all.

[Will Hay]

Will Hay claimed: "Please folks, don't be under any illusion - the quality I'm getting from the ADVC-100 at the present time (without any colour adjustment in TMPGEnc) is unacceptable to me. "

Since the screen captures are essentially indistinguishable from one another, the obvious answer is self-delusion. This happens all the time, particularly in high-end audio. Objective double-blind tests have shown no audible difference twixt $10,000-a-foot mercury-filled super-high-end rubber audio cables and Radio Shack $3.95 audio cables, yet self-deluded people continue to convince themselves that ultra-high-end mega-expensive linear crystal oxide free copper (and other types of) high end audio cables somehow magically "improve the sound."

The acid test here is the objective double-blind experimental test. Since the screen captures look essentially indistinguishable for either the ADVC-100 or the ATI on my computer monitor, here is what you should try to elimiante the self-delusion factor (also known as "the placebo effect"):

[1] Capture identical segments of video with the ADVC-100 and the ATi card. Encode 'em with identical software (TMPG, for example) and rename the MPG files.

[2] Now write a short batch file to randomly rename the MPG files and write an identifier file telling which file was renamed to what. For instance, this short batch file might rename FILE1.MPG to FILE7.MPG and then write an entry in a .TXT file that says "FILE1.MPG was renamed FILE7.MPG."

[3] Take the renamed MPG files and burn 'em to DVD. Do not look at the identifier TXT file that tells you which original file was renamed to what.

[4] Play the DVD for a group of people and ask them to tell whether the video clip was captured with the AVCD-100 or the ATI card.

[5] Now read the identifier file and compare the viewers' responses with a normal distribution. You will need to do some statistical work, particularly with Students T-distribution to make sure that intrasubject variance is not => intersubject variance. Unless you have a very large sample group, you should avoid exte4nsive ANOVA because the variance is sensitive to the exact shape of the distribution, and if it's not very close to a normal distribution this could skew your results.

For more detail on using objective double-blind experiments to eliminate "the placebo effect" in subjective claims like these, see the chapter "Baloney Detection Kit" in Carl Sagan's excellent book "The Demon-Haunted World."

Thanks for that!!!!!!!!
Great to see there are still people on this forum with a great sense of humour!!!!!

Will Hay

[TheGame7]

WHAT AN EXCELLENT THREAD...and to think the reason I read it was because there was a link to it in another post somewhat suggesting that the the "black box" was not very good.

After reading this, I am almost definitely going to buy it!

Rob or Will, can you tell me the programs you use to capture the footage from the ADVC and then to encode to mpeg2 (and what codecs) and then to create DVDs.

and also the settings you use throughout.

(Rob, if you could answer this too, it would be excellent since your caps were superb on screen too)

This would be a great help.

However, something never mentioned in this whole post (until the statistical nonsence) was sound!

What is the ADVCs sound like? Is it an improvement to the "RCA to 3.5mm jack into sound card" method that is used with TV capture cards?

Also, I do not understand how the ADVC - through firewire or is that just for video (you can tell I am a newb.)

P.S. Will, do you still get colour saturation on the monitor?

[rhegedus]

It doesn't really matter what you capture with, Movie Maker in XP will be as good as anything else. A friend of mine has Vegas Video and I've been very impressed with it but don't want to spend that much - I'll wait for an e-bay auction.

Encoding is done with TMPGEnc - outstanding results. If you're capturing VHS or TV, encode at 352x576 (PAL) or 352x480 (NTSC) using a bit rate of between 3000 and 4000 - maybe less if you do 2-pass VBR.

Authoring is done with TMPGEncDVDAuthor - I don't go in for fancy menus (I also make dvds for my dad who is still in the play/pause/stop world of vcr) so I just use the no menu facility.

Sound is as good as the pictures.

[TheGame7]

Thanks for the quick reply,

i) "using a bit rate of between 3000 and 4000 - maybe less if you do 2-pass VBR." - what do you mean by VBR?

ii) Is there any frame loss or out of sync sound and video?

iii) What was the 1/2 d1 thingy I read about

Cheers.

[TheGame7]

I have just discovered this: http://www.smartdv.co.uk/product.php/30/12/

I have a supported Digital 8 camcorder.

I was wondering, one advatages will I receive with the ACDV 100?

[rhegedus]

i) "using a bit rate of between 3000 and 4000 - maybe less if you do 2-pass VBR." - what do you mean by VBR?

Variable Bit Rate as opposed to Constant Bit Rate - see the glossary

ii) Is there any frame loss or out of sync sound and video?

No

iii) What was the 1/2 d1 thingy I read about

DV capture is at 720x576 (PAL) or 720x480 (NTSC) but since the source, usually VHS or TV, is only half of this, you can encode at half resolution i.e. half D1 x D2 = 352x576 (PAL) or 352x480 (NTSC). It's not 360x whatever since 360 isn't a valid DVD dimension, but 352 is.

[TheGame7]

And are you aware if using a DV/Digital 8 Camcorder as a passthrough is or is not exactly the same results wise as the ADVC?

[rhegedus]

Don't know, sorry - never tried it.

[gavmiester]

Will,

Bloke, a massive thread, classic cockup....but you did get one thing right....Gellar is a pig...so that makes two of us.

[Will Hay]

You can only judge a man by his ability to admit when he's wrong.
And right now I must be king of the world
Will


EDIT: Admit I was wrong/confused/niave about my setup, not about the pig

[Will Hay]

Rob or Will, can you tell me the programs you use to capture the footage from the ADVC and then to encode to mpeg2 (and what codecs) and then to create DVDs.

I use Pinnacle Studio 8 to 'capture', add transitions, edit and then save as an avi using the same settings I used to capture.
That way I don't re-render my original footage and lose quality.
I then import into TMPGEnc Plus and encode to mpeg2 352 x 576 at 4000CBR (for broadcast and VHS footage, I use 720 x 576 at 8000CBR for home video shot with m MiniDV handycam).
Ithen author with Ulead Movie Fcatory 2.0.
Like Rob, sometimes with menus, sometimes without.

Also, I do not understand how the ADVC - through firewire or is that just for video (you can tell I am a newb.)

Yes, it's all via firewire, sound and video.
It's not really capture.
The ADVC-100 does all the hard workd and then effectively just tranfers the signal, sound and all, to our computer via firewire.

P.S. Will, do you still get colour saturation on the monitor?

Yes, but I don't the colours on the final output file at all.
I did some testing with different settings and the original was by far the best.
I'm now in the process of running a firewire cable from my satellite box/VCR downstairs, like Rob, to improve my 'captures'.
I was thinking of moving the PC to the dining room but that was too drastic, I think I'll just drill a small hole in the corner of the ceiling, behing the living roon curtains and hope my wife doesn't see it
Will
Will

[TheGame7]

So are you suggesting there is still saturation of the colour red?

Would you recommend going for the DataVideo DAC-100 instead?

[rhegedus]

I think the red problem is dependent upon set-up, as I've had no such problems and there aren't any in my screen shots.

[TheGame7]

OK fair enough.

But were your screenshots taken after a burn to DVD?

[rhegedus]

Before.

I still don't understand the reasons behind Will's colour problems

[TheGame7]

Perhaps its his video/graphics card.

But I am not sure if this would affect a screen dump and how we would see it on our computers.

[proggy]

Hey will, I've been following your thread quietly for the past 9 pages and I think you might have the same problem as me? maybe not, but here it goes:

If I play my captured DV2 video on powerdvd from the canopus, it looks too dark and too red. However, if I open the file twice, the second instance of that file appears to show correctly.

So what I do on my pc is: first open the video file with media player and minimize the file, then I open the file again with powerDVD(or media player), and it shows the way it should (correct brightness and color).

SInce then I have swithced to nVidea's movie player which isn't perfect either, but shows better color. So my problem (same symptoms as you?)ended up being PowerDVD's codecs.

[ironwood321]

Hi,

Perhaps the skybox is being to generous in the amount of saturation its applying to the signal after its converted it. Can you alter colour levels from the onscreen menu. Also Sky boxes can output macrovision perhaps this is effecting things.

Maplin do a RGB to composite/svhs converter if you switched the box into say rgb output mode you could uses this to generate your signals and possibly control the levels.

I've seen oversaturated signals though a TV aerial which was receiving to much signal and overloading the components. After an attenuator was fitted it was fine.

[Will Hay]

Hi guys.
There is abolutely no saturation problems on the final DVD, only during preview and playback of either the avi or mpeg.
Will