Spark, I've read mixed reviews of whether or not to re-encode from HDD to DVD or not. But, if you're going to record for 4 hrs, you might as well just record in LP mode.
From what I understand so far, if you'[re going to burn 1h 25m to DVD, you might want to record in FR or SP mode and then take advantage of high speed dubbing and no re-encoding.
I still don't know what's better. Recording at XP to HDD and re-encoding at a different speed to DVD, or keeping the recording speed the same and using High Speed dub.
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I did a bit more testing since my question last night and decided to pass on my findings.
I am focusing my recording/editing on football games. i am burning eash half of the game on a seperate disc. (1st & 2nd quarters one 1 disc and 3rd and 4th quarters on 1 disc)
The games are recorded do the hD in XP and i edit out the commercials. After editing each quarter is approx 35-48 minutes.
XP-HD to SP dvd-r... i found this gives the best quality of all the methods i tried (except for xp-HD to xp-dvd-r which would take 4 discs per game versus 2)........ The quality grades out to a B with no pixilation and pretty darn good clarity when looking at numbers on uniforms from a distance. burns in 1:1 time I will use this setting for all games i want to archive to 2 discs per game.
XP-HD to high speed dvd-r.... equal quality to above, if it is any better my eye certainly can't detect it. did not burn in highspeed time, still took 1:1 burn time equal to above.
XP-HD to FR-dvd-r again quality was pretty darn close to the first burn above BUT ithink there might have been a slight loss in quality. maybe it was just my minds eye playing tricks but i think i saw just a tad bit loss of quality. time to burn was the same 1:1
XP-HD to XP-drd-r well obviously this one was the best off all i tried BUT an entire game would require 4 discs, 1 per quarter. I would consider burning a very important game like the super bowl or national championship game with this method but honestly the quality is not that much better than the first method i describe. it is better but i am not sure if it is worth 2 extra discs, labels and another case. I think the average person would not detect much diference between this and the first method, i am kind of overly picky sometimes when it comes to this stuff. Grade A
[ FR-HD to FR-vdv-r this is the worst method in my opinion for what i am doing. i wish i had not used it on 3 important games i burned earlier this week. i had not done the experimentation and i had not asked questions here like i have the past couple days..BIG MISTAKE not asking questions. i had read this great tutorial and thought fr to Highspeed was the way to go.. but i didn't think about the edits i made were hurting the quality. well something definetly was because the burned disc was not the quality i hope for. not sure if it was because i did the FR to HD and edited or if it was becasue i burned in HS mode...
any mode below sp is a waste of time in my opinion. the quality is worthless to me.... but as i said i am kinda picky about my sports archives.
there may be other ways others have used with success and i would love to hear em. this is what i found. hope it helps someone.
i am using 4x discs.
i like i said i could not really tell the difference and the highspeed time saving factor did not come into play since it burned at 1:1 not a highspeed .... i am going to look at them again and maybe try burning something different...... i will also look at disc size and see whats the fatter file.
when i say 1:1 i mean it records in real time.. if the file on the hd is 37 minutes it takes approx 37 minutes to get it on the dvd-r.. not sure how much of that time is burning and encoding if any....
normally the same file would take 15 minutes or so using highspeed......
the files are approx 2.5 - 2.8 gigs
Based upon my XP-specific experience and what I've read here, my impression is that on the E80H, "high speed" is really a misnomer -- either this is a "1x" burner, or at the very least, the machine limits recordings to "1x." In other words, one hour's worth of video recorded at any quality will take about one hour to record to DVD-R, two hour's worth of video recorded at any quality will take about two hours to record, and so on. But, since I really don't do anything at the slower speeds, gosh, someone tell me if that's not the case.
So, from a "time" standpoint, if you get better quality with some strategy other than "high speed" dubbing, go for it -- it won't really take any longer than the "high speed" option.
I'm a little confused about your experiences -- here's your list in order, to which I've assigned numbers:
#1 - XP-HD to SP dvd-r
#2 - XP-HD to high speed dvd-r
#3 - XP-HD to FR-dvd-r
#4 - XP-HD to XP-drd-r
#5 - FR-HD to FR-vdv-r
#2 and #4 would appear to be the same thing -- XP hard drive to XP DVD-R.
But, given how you go into the bit about "four discs" with "#4" but not with "#2," and you compare the picture quality of "#2" with the SP quality in "#1", I get the impression that "#2" is actually this:
SP-HD to high speed dvd-r
Would that actually be the case? That would sure make your experiences make a whole lot more sense to me!
And, of course, thanks for sharing your experiences with us -- we all want to get the best picture quality we can get, for any length of time we wind up putting onto our DVD-R's!
2 and 4 are not the same as far as the settings i used.
wne i did the XP to XP i actually set the speed of the dvdr burn to xp and when i did the XP to highspeed i set the speed of the dvdr burn at highspeed.. now if those 2 settings do the same thing then ok. i was just trying all sorts of combos to compare quality and time.....
people refer to using highspeed in the xp mode.. this confuses me because on my e80 i can't select xp/highspeed. i have to pick one or the other in the list ....... unless i am missing a way to set it ........
as for the highspeed being 1x i had a different experience when recording to the HD in fr and burning back to dvdr selecting the highspeed setting.. doing it that way i can burn approx 1hr 25min in approx 25min, doing the highspeed dub.
i appreciate all this discussion, i think i may be learning something.
on the xp to highspeed dvdr i burned the first and 2nd quarter of the game and it came out as sp. highspeed decied that based on the size i guess becasue i just selected highspeed from the list.......
on the xp tp xp i only burned the first quarter becasue both quarters were too large to go xp. this mode had the best of all i tried but i question if it is that much better to justify 4 discs per game versus 2... thats why i say i might only do that for super bowl type games.....
i hope i addressed all your questions. if i missed something let me know...........
Originally Posted by sparkafatty
And, so the highspeed is highspeed. I guess I really ought to keep my mouth shut about that, as I haven't played with any of the slower speeds to see what happens then. Not that I'm gonna let that stop me, though!
So, let me try it again: OK, I know that with my XP one-hour "high speed" dubs, it takes about an hour -- maybe a few minutes less. So, is it the case that essentially anything recorded via "high speed" dubbing takes essentially "about an hour to fill up a DVD-R?" That would make sense to me, as we're really changing from "time" to "gigabytes" during the high speed dubbing process -- 1 hour at XP is the same data size as 2 hours at SP, and so on. So, it should take the burner the same amount of time to burn the same amount of data. Does that sound about right?
yes thats sounds about right to me. still a bit confusing though.
NOW i have a whole new problem and it is quite troublesome. i know i should start a new thread but since i am conversing with a couple folks here i hope i can get help.
This morning when i try to take some programs off the HD and burn to dvd-r (any mode, tried sp and highspeed) i get an error saying "recover".. according to the manual it has to to with a loss if poiwer.. ok here is what i am doing... i set up a dub in the usual manner and check the highspeed(or Sp) mode.i click dub and authorize it. dubbing comes up on the player cntrol panel BUT after about 8-10 seconds the system stops and the control panel on the player say recover... i wait for it to do that and then it says check disc.......
i can see nothing is burned to the disc and it is not ruined because i9 can burn to it via my cmouters dvd burner.....
i just got this error this morning and am doing nothing dofferent from what i have done in the past. i checked the plugs, changed outlets etc. funny thing is i lose power to NOTHING else connected to the same outlet(tv, direct tv, cable etc)
so now i am stuck here.the manual does nothing more than state what said above..... i have tried 6 different methods, changed plugs , modes etc and still i get the recover error after 10 seconds or so.............
i am pissed becasue i have 3 games on the HD with more to go on there over the next few days....... any ideas!!! HELPPPPPPP
This is a relatively common "media" problem. Basically, what you're seeing goes something like this:
When you first start recording, you aren't "writing to the DVD-R," you're "filling up the machine's memory buffer." Then, when that buffer fills up, the machine needs to start writing to the DVD-R disc NOW. If the machine has any problem "finding the disc," you've got yourself this kind of error. I had this problem with some Memorex discs (Nevermore, Memorex!), and the fix was very simple:
Before recording anything onto the DVD-R, switch over to the "DVD" side, go into the Functions screen, then into the Disc Setting screen, and give the disc a "Title." That'll allow the machine to "find" the disc the very first time in a much less "demanding" operation. THEN, go back and do your dubbing session.
Give that a shot, and see if that'll get you back in business again!
thanks... i saw that tip you posted in another thread about the recoevr issue. i also see where you stated you use comp usa discs 1x with no issues.........also tdk seems to be reccomended. i have to admit i did switch disc brands right when this happened so i will try to buy more
i did try the giving it a title thing and after i punch in the title and click set(or whatever it says) and it starts writing the title after a few seconds i get the recover error again....... no naming or retrying to dub to the disc that gave the error helps..soooo it looks like new media is my next option.
time to wash my ass and hit compp usa......... i will keep you posted very soon. thanks for the help!!
A photo of the front/back of this unit & the remote would be nice.
A neat trick. Record a program for fifteen minutes then select it to play & when a commercial comes up you can use time slip to forward through it in a couple of seconds. The amount of time you need to wait before playing depends on the approximate amount of commercial time.
ok i dumped another 30 bucks at comp usa on some discs..got a 15 pack ot the comp usa 1x green label dvd for 15 bucks(no cases just discs shrink wrapped0 and a 4 pack of the tdk up to 2x that come in the case and have abeige/orangish brown type cover....
i tried the files that were fighting with me when i was gettting the recover error and i pre named the dvd-r before attempting to dub heres what happened
compusa 1x... FRmode on HD to highspeed on dvd-r.... dubs for approx 5 minutes and then i get a screen saying "dubbing error".. different than the recover error and it does burn to disc for those 5 minutes............
tdk 2x... yielded the same error as ablove using the identical files, method etc.
so i think maybe it is the files or mode so i go back to the 1x comp usa and try different files and mode (not the best to method top trouble shoot but hell i wanna get something to work LOL).. i use files that are
XP on HD to sp on 1x dvd-r..total length is approx 127 minutes..I did not name the disc in advance(or did i?/ shit i am confusinbg myself now) either way i am approx 30 minutes into the burn of 127 minutes... so far so good, red record light is on, i can view the files i am recording from etc.......
i will post back later with the results of this and i will also try a different mode other than highspeed with the files that were giving me troubles.. maybe its the mode and not the files........
i am not attempting to hijack or misdirect this thread. just trying to get feedback from other users......
Originally Posted by handyguy
Just to add my fresh experience with Panasonic DMR-E80H.
-set "DVD-R compatible Rec" to On
-recorded movie in FR mode to HDD (more than 1:34) - no chapter points
-edited out begining and end
-used high speed dubing (took 53 minutes) to Memorex 4x DVD-R
-finelized (additional 5 minutes)
-on the end I have movie 1h 34min long with no chapters
This will teach me to read this next time:
The markers you entered (-> page 22) will be lost. However, when the “DVD-R compatible Rec” setting is set to “On” (-> page 44) and the recorded program is being dubbed from the HDD using the high speed mode markers are treated as chapter cutoff points.
1h of XP high speed dubbing will take 1h to burn
2h of SP high speed dubbing will take 1h to burn
4h of LP high speed dubbing will take 1h to burn
6h of EP high speed dubbing will take 1h to burn
Originally Posted by donpedro
1. If you use "high speed" dubbing mode, indeed you don't get the usual 5-minute-increment auto-chapter points.
2. On the other hand, if you go through your video on the hard drive BEFORE dubbing, you can hit the MARKER button where you want to have chapter points, and those will become chapter points after the high speed dubbing session has been finalized.
3. When dubbing, it's best to think "data," not "time." 1 hour of XP is the same amount of data as 2 hours of SP and is the same amount of data as 4 hours of LP, and so on. So, basically, it'll take 1 hour to burn a "full DVD-R," regardless of your quality settings and amount of time your videos might be, so long as you fill up that disc.
4. Bear in mind that if you use anything other than "high speed" dubbing, you're essentially just "recording video" again, so you're back to "real time" -- 2 hours will take 2 hours, 4 hours will take 4 hours, etc.
I think we're getting this pretty well nailed down now....
One thing that varies with the Panasonics is the number of input/outputs & the number of buttons on the front panel. So a picture of these would be nice.
I believe a E30 has the most inputs/outputs & most buttons on the front panel.
Little trick how to take out beginning of program (maybe it is here already but I hope it is not) since I had trouble (small) to take out exactly from the beggining. It kept small part there.
- Shorten Segment
- hit Pause on remote
- hit Skip back |<< (this will jump to the real beginning)
- select Start point (it will start to play after that)
- then just continue as usually End, Next, Erase, Exit
Originally Posted by thoots
HS Dub Time: Looks to me like Thoots previous explanation is right on. Think of HS mode as a data transfer. Same amout of time to dub the dvd whether it's 1 hr or 6 hrs of playing time. No worry about re-encoding since you select HS Dubbing in the DVD recording speed menu.
--HS Dubbing can only be performed when DVD Compatible Rec was set to ON when you recorded the program to HD, and when your program will fit on a DVD based on the mode you recorded it in.
I did my 1st high speed dub of a 1:45 long program in about 45 minutes. I added markers before dubbing (yes it's finalized). DVD plays fine in my E-80 and another deck, but won't read on my Philips DVD player. ALL the discs I've made so far play on all my players (same media, some dvd's recorded w/DVD Compatible mode on and off). The only difference in this disc is that I added chapters and High Speed dubbed it. Anyone have similar problems?
DVD Compatiblity Record: Just a guess, but I'm wondering if this has to do with toggling on and off that 4gig limit so as to guarantee there's enough space on the disc for your program and finalizing....So as to keep the disc dummy proof and playable on most players (avoiding any kind of overburn that might not be read on another deck or some other consideration). I believe my earlier comment about it using a VBR is wrong since I can still choose a recording speed with DVD Compat. Rec. ON. I'm still learning too.
XP & SP QUality These 2 are damn close in PQ. And from what I've read in another forum, XP/SP use 704*480 resolution. LP & EP cut that resolution in half to 352*240. That would explain the noticeable difference when using LP & EP.
--Someone asked about photos. try circuitcity.com they usually have closeup views front and back. I'm sure I could take a few if you can't find any.
--Freezing live TV. The E-80 doesn't do it. I know what you mean since I have an NEC VHS deck that does it.
Good thread, lots of info.
Originally Posted by shutterbug
2. - Again, I think "DVD Compatibility Record" sets the machine to "constant bit-rate recording." Its default is VBR, "to get more programming onto the hard drive," which the manual says in so many words. I think the "high speed dubbing" process is what gets around the 4-gigabyte limit, as you're doing things totally different from anything else with the machine -- simply "burning data," not really "recording video" as such.
Anyway, that's what I think. Can't say it's KNOW, actually...
I'll say it's odd. Unless High speed dubbing does something different to the disc. My Phillips dvd player is 2.5 yrs old but has played everything including S/VCD's, it won't even read the disc ....This is like reverse engineering I'll try some different media Monday when a spindle comes in and burn the same game.
VBR: I've noticed the bit rate on all my discs fluctuates. I've been keeping notes on how each program was recorded and burned, etc. I haven't seen anything that has been constant yet. SP is supposed to be 5 Mbps. I'm watching my SP HS dub disc go from 3.2 to 6.3
Btw, the cable tuner in my E-80 even brings in a MUCH better picture than my aftermarket cable box (analog cable)
Just thought I'd update this with some additional info rather than add a new message for the same problem.
I did another high speed dub of the same game off my HDD to a Ritek (G03 silver/purple) disc. (I used a Sony dvd-r for the previously posted attempt--all my Sony discs have been fine except this one). I updated my Philips DVD 711 player's firmware to version 7.27..... The disc still won't play.
Program time: 1:42:00
Data size: 3488 MB
DVD Compatible Rec: ON
Recording Mode: SP
High Speed Dubbing Time: 47 Mins (no re-encoding)
(took 25 mins to burn when I used a DVD-RAM disc)
11 Markers added
I'm going to try burning the same program again, except I'm going to add about 18 minutes of blue screen as another untitled program. I have a feeling the problem has something to do with the DVD Compat mode and filling up the dvd-r completely.
Program 2: I took another baseball game that I recorded to the HDD and used *divide program* to cut it into 2 programs. I then burned it to 2 discs.
Program Time: 1:58:27
Data Size: 4086MB (4411 MB free on DVD-R)
DVD Compatible Rec: ON
Recording Mode: SP
High Speed Dubbing Time: 55 Minutes (no re-encoding)
Media: Ritek G03
--Disc plays fine in 3 recorders--
Program Time: 0:55:00
Data Size: 1906MB (4411 MB free on DVD-R)
DVD Compatible Rec: ON
Recording Mode: SP
High Speed Dubbing Time: 26 Minutes (no re-encoding)
Media: Ritek G03
---Disc does not play in my Philips---
This is all great info that I will be rereading once mine E80 arrives this week.
Here are pics of the unit from crutchfields's site:
Thank you for a very comprehensive and helpful post. Just purchased the DMR-E80H and I love it. Thanks to your post I can love it a little faster.
"thoots" Just want to say great on this guide has help me out alot. The book let that come's with the unit suck's. They should package this guide when you buy a Panasonic E80H.
Thanks! That's part of why I put this together -- the one thing that the manual sure doesn't do is "walk you through how you do it." I haven't gotten a call yet from Panasonic offering to send me a new E100H for my efforts....