Why are VCD's out of Malaysia considered not bootleg?

[jugernaut]

Well, think this way. If you live on the US and buy the Buffy Vampire Slayer collection from zone 2, or if you live in Australia / Latin America / Europe and buy zone 1 DVD and you think what you are doing is illegal, The Answer is Yes, the malasyan VCD exports are illegal.


But if you think in free market, in consumer satisfaction, Malasyan VCD are legal.



(In my case, if i bought the Negociator DVD Zone 4 I will have to pay 30 dollars for the disc, that comes without FBI documentary, but if i buy Zone 1 DVD i will pay only 18 and get the doc)

[andydd]

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On 2001-05-26 21:56:35, Captnwolfy wrote:
I went to the Eureka site and saw that they say what they sell isn't bootleg. Isn't any VCD sold without the original movie considered illegal, by copyright infrigment or something. Does it have something to do with it coming from Malaysia? Any info you can give is cool.
Thanks
Captnwolfy
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Why are people under the impression that ALL VCDs are bootlegs..they are a legitimate media !...Ive bought Star Wars Trilogy and Phantom Menance from a malaysian website..they are official legal releases but it does say on the side 'Not to be sold outside of malaysia'..hhmm..strange !

andydd

[adam]

I do not know how Eureka operates...they could very well be running an illegal business but it IS possible to sell copyrighted vcds to buyers in the us. Assuming they are taking the necessary steps what they are doing is perfectly legal.

Its not infringing on the copyright because they are a licenced reseller and have purchased the right to distribute the vcds... Yes even overseas. Everytime one of these vcds is bought royalties are paid to the production studio. It's called business. This isnt the dark ages anymore, the same company that makes a product doesnt have to distribute it. they sell the distribution licence to another company and that company can sell it in ANY country they want as long as the licence gives them that right and as long as the product they are selling is not illegal in the country they are exporting to...and vcds are not illegal in ANY country because it is a worldwide standard format.

SOME production studios will sell distribution rights for SOME vcds only under the condition that the vcd not be distributed outside of that country. This explains your trilogy and phantom menace vcds andydd, these DO appear to be illegal in your case. But let me stress...this only applies to SOME vcds, not all.

It IS possible to legally purchase vcds in the US and I am fairly cetain that Eureka is not breaking the law in any way by doing so.

[ktnwin]

Maybe I am soo simple minded but this is what I think (you may not care but that's OK).
In Asia, DVD players and DVD disc are expensive while VCD is cheap. It may be normal for movie makers to release their movies in VCD format in Asia. So those movie VCDs are legal.
However, because software and media piracy is easy (and common in Asia), there are also bootlegged copies of the legal ones.

[Braindrain]

I've got some unique insight on this. In my line of work (legal interpretation), I have regular dealings with Customs officials (US/Canada).

It is THEIR opinion that ANY VCD is illegal and will prohibit/seize/detain any VCD's coming into the country. Of course, for small private shipments, they may let it through.

So... doesn't matter what you or I think. It just depends on the Feds.

[charlestang]

I think this topic is already pretty comprehensive. However, I have a little bit of insight to share as well. We received a letter from the US Customs alleging that we are exporting 'illegal DVDs' into the US.

It is funny that they seem to think that the original, royalty-paid VCDs that we sell are 'illegal DVDs'. We are putting in a protest to this. Of course, it doesn't help that we have to pay the US Customs US$200 for a chance to even prove that they are wrong. Anyway, we are already going through with that.

We hope to settle this issue with US Customs once and for all. The movies that we sell are original, royalty-paid VCDs and not 'illegal DVDs'. Will keep all of you posted on the outcome of this.

Saying that, 99.9% of the parcels sent to US does go through without complications. However, we still think it is worth the trouble to prove the US Customs wrong once and for all.

As a side note, if you do not receive your order made at EurekaMovies.com, we will always get a replacement sent to you. No exceptions

Charles Tang
EurekaMovies.com
http://www.eurekamovies.com
mailto:charlestang@eurekamovies.com

P.S. All the contributions to this thread has been particularly insightful. Keep up the great work, guys and gals.

[AntnyMD]

I'd like to add my two cents:

I'm not sure, but isn't the financial transaction of purchasing a VCD from eurekamovies.com taking place on a server in Malaysia? If so, doesn't that mean they're not selling the discs outside Malaysia?

I think of it this way, and please clarify for me if I'm off track:

When I buy something from the Crate and Barrel catalog on the phone, I call their toll-free number. I give them my credit card. Even though I live in Maryland, the credit card transaction clearly took place in Illinois. It says so on my statement. I'm not physically in Illinois, I'm only buying goods being sold there. Only God (or your own major deity) knows where its being shipped from ... could be Malaysia for all I know.

Buying something in one place and having it shipped from one place are two different issues. My copy of Star Wars VCD clearly states the disc is not for sale outside Malaysia. To my knowledge, this VCD is not for sale in Maryland (USA). End of story.

[Riot_Inc]

(i didn't read any of the posts, except for the topic starter, so i apologize if it's already said)
I think:
Because that is their standard, since i've been told that the economy is not that great. It's cheaper than producing DVD's, so that's what they'll go with.

[aldus4]

@AntnyMD

Yes this is what major governments are argueing about...the so-called "point of sale" via the internet. The funny thing is that every government has different definitions.

[webeye]

Is it illegal to sell other than Region 1 DVD's in the USA
and Canada?

[Braindrain]

charlestang - Your company falls into an area of international law with a lot of gray area. However, once the VCD's enter US/Canada, it is with the intent to "import or sell". (Not those EXACT words. ) Once your VCD's enter foreign soil, it must comply with the rules of that country.

e.g. I buy some pot "online" in Amsterdam. They send it to me via post. Do you think Customs is going to accept the argument that they were "bought" in a foreign country. If a product is in non-compliance of the prevailing laws, then it's fair game to Customs. ( <- AntnyMD)

Anyways, that's what I get paid the big bucks for. Unless you've got an armada of lawyers with extensive experience in copyright law, I don't think you'll be successful.

Your 99.9% success rate sounds about right. Customs can't catch everything. You're lucky you're in Malaysia or you'd be hammered pretty hard by now.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Braindrain on 2001-07-15 22:16:03 ]</font>

[AntnyMD]

A video CD and a kilo of pot are hardly in the same category. Besides, I cant really see anyone at US Customs caring that much ... although I did get searched at the Canadian border at Detroit once.

[Braindrain]

Ahh... that's the standard reply for people inexperienced with legislation. The VCD and pot are referenced in different acts but the fact that they don't comply with these acts make them BOTH illegal. Of course, the consequences are not the same.

You're right in that the Customs Officer that YOU see probably won't care because enforcement is not as tight (for VCD's ) at non-commercial crossings. It's when shipments go through commercial crossings that they are checked for different legislations.

I can't tell you too much how it works because it's classified info. But remember, what you "think" may not matter isn't necessarily the case.

[dumwaldo]

short version
selling in maylasia = legal
shipping outside maylasia = illegal

hope i wasnt too wordy

[dancoe]

I can't tell you too much how it works because it's classified info. But remember, what you "think" may not matter isn't necessarily the case.
[/quote]


You're not a very good "Legal Interpretor" if you can't interpret the law to us.

I'm an English interpretor and I don't leave out words because of classification.

Are you some type of secret agent? Is that why your head hurts? Is that why you can't tell us how the law works? I know you can, but then you would have to kill us.

Take care of yourself Austin Powers.


Yeah Baby!!!!!!!Yeah

P.S. I know your feeling pretty silly right now, so work it out, and give us some feedback.

Bond, James Bond

You silly boy Braindrain.

Yeah Baby!!!!!!!!Yeah Do I make you horny?

[patrickm]

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You're not a very good "Legal Interpretor" if you can't interpret the law to us.

I'm an English interpretor and I don't leave out words because of classification.

Are you some type of secret agent? Is that why your head hurts? Is that why you can't tell us how the law works? I know you can, but then you would have to kill us.
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i think he told you how the law worked. they are both listed as illegal for import, thus they are confiscated. the law isn't classified, it's the inspection process details that are. besides, his job is to interpret things for those with the proper clearance, not for you . personally, i wouldn't risk my clearance/ my job/ jail time to help you get a few CDs over the border...

[dancoe]

Gee I'm sorry,

I think you misunderstood. I was asking Braindrain questions. Not you. Do work with him? Or, are you agent 006?

No. You're silly also.


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On 2001-07-18 11:31:41, patrickm wrote:
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You're not a very good "Legal Interpretor" if you can't interpret the law to us.

I'm an English interpretor and I don't leave out words because of classification.

Are you some type of secret agent? Is that why your head hurts? Is that why you can't tell us how the law works? I know you can, but then you would have to kill us.
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i think he told you how the law worked. they are both listed as illegal for import, thus they are confiscated. the law isn't classified, it's the inspection process details that are. besides, his job is to interpret things for those with the proper clearance, not for you . personally, i wouldn't risk my clearance/ my job/ jail time to help you get a few CDs over the border...
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[patrickm]

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On 2001-07-18 11:45:37, dancoe wrote:
Gee I'm sorry,

I think you misunderstood. I was asking Braindrain questions. Not you. Do work with him? Or, are you agent 006?
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sorry. you asked the questions in a public forum. if you're that insecure, send an email or private message. i was only trying to make the point that giving away classified info to random people over the internet can have potentially serious consequences, so not to expect much more than he's already told you, which seemed like enough to go on.

and actually, no, i don't work with him, but in my job i do work with satellites, and need security clearance, so i do know the difference between classified and unclassified material. so you can take your foot out of your mouth now...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: patrickm on 2001-07-18 13:16:03 ]</font>

[vitualis]

Braindrain,

I agree with most of what you say, but you are working on the premise that the video content on all VCDs are illegal (i.e., pirated).

The VCDs themselves aren't illegal in the US (as per marijuana) and are nothing more than a form of medium (e.g., VHS). If a movie studio releases a movie in VCD (and say VHS) in Malaysia, and there are no import/export restrictions, then the legality of importing that VCD should be the same as importing that VHS. Am I right?

Of course, this is theorectical only as I don't think any Western studio ever releases movies onto VCD.

Regards.

[Braindrain]

dancoe - Patrickm is right. I told you how the law was "interpreted" from a practical standpoint which is VERY different from just interpreting English. If it was THAT easy, we'd all be making $100K+... (which interpreters DON'T make, BTW) However, I don't know what your post actually has to do with the original topic. If you want to learn about the law, try taking some post-grad University courses. Oh wait... you actually need a University degree to take those... and not an Arts degree either..

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I can't tell you too much how it works because it's classified info.
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I said "... how it WORKS..." I am refraining from telling you WHAT and HOW they look for stuff. We're not talking about "trying to sneak a VCD in your underpants" stuff but commercial shipments. If you really want to know some of their procedures, try sneaking in a couple of grams of cocaine the next time you go through Customs. You'll get personal instruction.

Obviously you are not involved in any high level agreements involving NDA's. (If you don't know what that is, don't bother asking. If you are part of ANY, which I highly doubt, then you'd know what I'm talking about.) If you really want to know procedure, the Acts/Laws/Regulations of most countries can be found on their related Justice websites.

vitualis - It's not my opinion that all VCD's are pirated/illegal. Although the posts have gotten way off track by a certain poster, the question for most people is : "Will I be able to get my VCD's that I ordered?" Customs is tasked with enforcing ALL laws (although it may be impossible MOST of the time). Whether that be Copyright Law or whatever. Usually when they have a question, they will get direction from the proper authorities/channels. Such direction MAY come from the originating movie studio. I don't have to say the rest... Of course, we're still talking about North America here...


To everyone else : My "opinion" is also re-iterated by CUSTOMS directly. Have a problem with that? Talk to THEM about it. I believe Charles Tang is.

[klay51]

Well first of all the man(well could be a woman) wasnt assking wether its legal or not. He is asking why arent they called boot leg in malaysia becasuse he thinks ALL vcds are bootleg but for every pirate movie out theres also a legal version(unless its unreleased on vcd yet). As for legality, why dosent america/malaysia want vcds sold in our country even if they are real copyrighted??

[P@iNKilleR]

Once upon a time in UK vcd/cdi were freely available without any problem but U needed very expensive decoder cards to watch them so why the hassle now since we cant get them in the uk/us. VCD is an excellent format as its not region protected and most copies are so good & better than vhs shite why complain. There are some films that will never be available on dvd for years that I can get on vcd & i'm happy. there are loads of companies selling vcd's on the net some legal some not & but U know that coz eurekamovies dont sell releases at the Pictures at the moment!! what we do is illegal as in copying dvd's to vcd so who's the theiving non royalty payer now? VCD is a cool format never let it die!!!


Kev!

[ziggygt]

I purchased some Malaysian VCD's from an internet site. In the packing material was a poorly written paper that was an import form from customs. The Malaysian importer certified that thew material "did not advocate the overthrow of the government" and did not contain nudity. Sounds wacky but it looks just like the type of form I've seen to import circuit boards and other parts.

Funny thing was that the movie I bought was Steven Segals - Patriot. It is about militants in Montana.

Each CD had license that stated illegal to sell outside Malaysia. Looks like legit customs docs OKing it. Go figure.
I'm tempted to buy the VCD if I don't want to spring for the DVD (not enough extras, or I don't think the sound is worth it) and I'm thinking that the previewed VHS tape looks attractive. VCD prices above $10 turn me off. The quality is just not good enough. There are just oo few commercial SVCD's available.

[FatBat]

Hhmm.. I find this thread very interesting, for one i'm a Malaysian and still lives here
And I didn't realize eurekamovies.com was a Malaysian distributor. Always thought it was some foreign country corporation
Well like most of you said VCDs is legal here in Malaysia BUT it MUST be the orginals, tohgh Malaysia is overwhelmed by pirated VCDs. Yes pirated VCDs are faster, just as good(some), and way cheaper... I MUST admit piracy in Malaysia is what kept me here :b

Trying to stop piracy in Malaysia is like stopping the US from strip clubs. It's almost impossible! Though lately the Malaysian Government has turned head strong towards stopping piracy it still exists in streets today!
The pirated VCDs go as cheap as USD$1. Yeah, that is the price of it in the markets here in Malaysia.

VCDs(Orginal) are damn expensive compared to VCDs(Pirated), but both are of same quality. So who wouoldn't buy it?

Ok i'm way outta point here. :b
The reason why US didn't allow VCDs is b'cos it's too easy to be pirated. If ppl start buying them and pirating them the movie industry in US will collapse. But Original VCDs DO exists! Probably eurekamovies.com are selling orginal VCDs from Malaysia, that is NOT wrong. It's legal, but wheter what you purchased is really the original disc or a pirated one, well i can't say. The cover might be original but for the disc inside i cannot proof true/ false.
No offense to anyone but the bottomline is-

VCDs(Pirate) is cheap, more recent movies, good quality, BUT illegal!
VCDs(Original) is expensive, quite slow compare to pirated, good quality, AND legal!

[andydd]

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On 2001-08-21 01:01:26, FatBat wrote:
Hhmm.. I find this thread very interesting, for one i'm a Malaysian and still lives here
And I didn't realize eurekamovies.com was a Malaysian distributor. Always thought it was some foreign country corporation
Well like most of you said VCDs is legal here in Malaysia BUT it MUST be the orginals, tohgh Malaysia is overwhelmed by pirated VCDs. Yes pirated VCDs are faster, just as good(some), and way cheaper... I MUST admit piracy in Malaysia is what kept me here :b

Trying to stop piracy in Malaysia is like stopping the US from strip clubs. It's almost impossible! Though lately the Malaysian Government has turned head strong towards stopping piracy it still exists in streets today!
The pirated VCDs go as cheap as USD$1. Yeah, that is the price of it in the markets here in Malaysia.

VCDs(Orginal) are damn expensive compared to VCDs(Pirated), but both are of same quality. So who wouoldn't buy it?

Ok i'm way outta point here. :b
The reason why US didn't allow VCDs is b'cos it's too easy to be pirated. If ppl start buying them and pirating them the movie industry in US will collapse. But Original VCDs DO exists! Probably eurekamovies.com are selling orginal VCDs from Malaysia, that is NOT wrong. It's legal, but wheter what you purchased is really the original disc or a pirated one, well i can't say. The cover might be original but for the disc inside i cannot proof true/ false.
No offense to anyone but the bottomline is-

VCDs(Pirate) is cheap, more recent movies, good quality, BUT illegal!
VCDs(Original) is expensive, quite slow compare to pirated, good quality, AND legal!
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God..There are some wierd points of view here !..
I dont believe the quote ' US doesnt let in VCDs coz they can be pirated ' ..that makes no sense at all.and i doubt if its true..

I live in the Uk and I know it is illegal to sell Region One DVDs here buts its quite legal to buy them from the states or even buy them from a UK supplier as he just acts as a middle man and (in theory) doesnt hold stocks of Region 1 discs,..Ive bought VCDS from malaysia and as far as Im aware its quite legal for me to do so.


Well..Thtas my moneys worth

andydd

[agzz]

IP have found that VCD are big in mainland china too, pricing are about a buck / disc. ie saving private ryan on 3 discs $3, matrix $2 = 2 dics. you get the picture.
Funny thing is that pricing on DVDs is the same, resulting in a buck a movie (even got dubble sided dvds with 2 movies for a buck). Well this is small "hole-in-the-wall" shops and probilbe very light shy (pardon the swinglish, and again)

I have to agree with fatbat on that "US doesnt let in VCDs coz they can be pirated". it may not be the whole truth but it is probibly a big part of it.

off the topic.
We all know that the olny reason dvds are regoin coded are so they can sell for as high prise as possible and only in the regions they feel like. A desperate try to keep priacy down and prices up. This resulting in that i can not get the movies i want at a dicet price. i have to pay them $15 postage or pay less and wait for the dvd for a weeks, and then they blame me for getting the movie elseware? Can u blame me?

[Feslmogh]

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We all know that the olny reason dvds are regoin coded are so they can sell for as high prise as possible and only in the regions they feel like.

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I though they coded the dvds due the movie not playing in the country yet (e.g. Fantasia 2k comes out on DVD in the states but in the UK it just now opining in theaters). If I produced a movie here in the states and finished its run in theaters and had to add stuff to it like subtitles for the forgien theater market and the dvd that was just relesed was NOT region encoded I could lose money in the forgein market. The DVD faq and the book "DVD Demistified" gives a bit more better info than what I could.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Feslmogh on 2001-08-21 05:45:29 ]</font>

pot is illegal? who gives a damn!!

[Epi]

I have purchased the Back To The Future Set from EurekaMovies.com, and it does not say "Not To Be Exported In Malaysia" it says "Exclusively Distributed In Malaysia, By etc." I don't think it's illegal or bootlegged. I paid my money, Eureka got thier money, the studios got there's, and I got my movies. If that ain't right I don't know what is.

P.S. Is there anywhere in the US where you can purchase LEGAL VCD's online?