Provideo PV256 New drivers V1.4

[norm]

Attn. Parends, Fourthquark and other PV256 owners
Now that Version 1.4 has been posted at Provideo's web site I would like to know if that has fixed any of the problems you've had with your PV256. or if it's worse.

[fourthquark]

I just downloaded the v1.4 driver & application last night.

Norm, can you advise on best way of installing the new v1.4 driver? Is it necessary to delete old v1.3 files manually, or just remove hardware from devices then then re-install? Or do it through advanced driver properties?

I see that Provideo has also posted something called "pv256/pv256C for Ulead Tool". Any idea what this is about?

Nice to see the v1.4 stuff, but it would all be much more helpful with some documentation, like installation instructions, readme's, FAQs, revision history, etc.


I will report back once I get everything installed and have a chance to try out the new driver and application.

[parends]

norm - tested the 1.4 drivers & software under Win98SE and Win2000. Especialy under win2000 the driver is much more stable. I did encounter one anoying bug; the manual scanning tool only adds frequencies to channel 02.

fourthquark - the 1.4 driver can work with the Ulead VideoStudio 5.0 DVD Plug-in software.
http://www.ulead.com/vs/runme.htm

[norm]

Parends - Thanks for that info, good to see its working well in win2000. Strange about the manual scanning tool problem.
Fourthquark - You should be able to update the driver in device manager and then install the new applcation over the old one. But it's always safe to uninstall anyway.
I would like to share my views on V1.4 but I can't. The PV256 has died.
I put the PV256 back in the machine and installed V1.4 and the error message is unable to initialise hardware. V1.3 tells me a similar error but when I select the source button there is no input device or output device. It will playback a file though. I even did a fresh windows install but no joy.
So I'll have to wait another week before I can get one of my demo PV256 back to have a play.
I was going to download the trial Videostudio 5 to check out how the plugin works.
Things always happen at the wrong time.
Anyway thanks for the replys and any other info regarding the performance would be of interest.
Cheers

[JHebert]

norm, parends, fourthquark, other pv256 owners -
I am considering getting the PV256 to convert my old vhs and 8mm tapes to DVD and/or VCD/SVCD.
Question about the audio however - I understand the PV256 captures the audio as MPEG at 44Khz. Is this correct? Most DVD authoring software like DVDit requires 48Khz PCM WAV files. Is there a way to change the audio capture settings in the PV256 or can it be converted after capturing? Also, what do think about the overall capture quality compared to say the DVC-II or WinTV-PVR? Will the PV256 be good for what I want to do?
Also, where did you guys buy the PV256 and how much does it cost if I may ask? The Provideo website doesn't have online sales and I didn't see any distributor list.
Sorry for all the questions and thanks in advance for any tips and advice you can share.

[tleeuwen]

The new 1.4 drivers work great with win2k. They are more stable and they fixed the bug that would reset the machine if you didn't open the options menu before recording.

I also like the new graphics they put in.

@JHebert - The Quality is great, I use to have a winTv card, but the PV256 is much better. I don't have any experience with the DVC-II but I heard their software sucks. I use my PV256 mostly to record to VCD. This works great, just record and burn with nero. You can use a tool like vcdcutter if you need to edit your recordings. With a simple demux tool you can extract the audio and convert it to any format you like (including 48khz pcm).

@fourtquark - I first uninstalled the old software with add/remove programs, then removed the pv256 from the hardware list. Restarted the computer and installed the new drivers and software.

[fourthquark]

JHebert - I got my PV256T (with TV tuber) directly from Provideo in Taiwan. I am in Canada and they do not yet have a Canadian distributor, so they sold directly to me. I paid US$180+US$25shipping. I understand they now have a USA distributor so if you are in USA they may not sell directly. Also I think the "retail" price will probably be higher - I got the impression I was getting a special "sample" price. You can get direct sales or distirbutor information by emailing their sales department - the address is on their website.

tleeuwen - which WinTV card are you comparing with - the WinTV PVR?

tleeuwen and norm - thanks for feedback on new driver install.

Question - anyoune know if the PV256 has Macrovision - i.e., has anyone tried recording from a Macrovision-protected VHS source?

[JHebert]

Thanks for the help guys. I emailed Provideo and they offered a similar deal to buy it direct. I am in the US near Philadelphia so I guess they don't have the distributor network sorted out yet. I also asked a few questions and here are the answers I received:

1 - Does the card capture directly into compliant VCD,
SVCD, and DVD format MPEG files? In other words, are
the captured files ready for use in an authoring
program, or is any re-encoding or other processing
necessary?
1). Yes, the card capture direct into compliant VCD/SVCD and DVD format file
*
2 - I understand that the card has WDM DirectShow
drivers. Does this mean that capture programs like
Ulead VideoStudio and MediaStudio or Adobe Premiere
can be used with the card? Or is there a specific
capture application that must be used?
2). Yes, the card is work with Video Studio and Media Studio and
@ Our product not only with our own Application Software. But also
@ You can aske us to bundle you with Video Studio at US$10.-* Media Studio at US$50.-
*
3 - Can the card capture audio at 48Khz, such as for
DVD authoring, or does it only capture at 44Khz? Can
it capture the audio as PCM WAV file or in MPEG only?
If the audio is 44Khz only, is this a driver issue or
a hardware limitation of the card?
3). For the capture the Audio ... there is a choice for 48Khz and 44Khz both.
*
4 - Can the card be used to convert or transcode
existing AVI files on the hard drive into MPEG format?
Software based conversion from AVI to MPEG is very
slow, and it would be great if the PV256T could
accelerate this process.
4). The card is direct as MPEG format

The answer to my transcoding question was unclear. Can you guys tell me if the hardware MPEG codec in the PV256 can be used to transcode AVI files to MPEG? Usually only much more expensive cards like RT2000 and DC1000 can do this. As far as I know the DVCII and WinTV-PVR cannot. If the PV256 can do transcoding that would be great. I was thinking maybe it can since it has WDM drivers according to Provideo.
Also Provideo indicated you can select 48Khz or 44Khz audio during capture. Can you confirm if this is a new feature in the 1.4 drivers?
I think I will be getting this card since it sounds like the biggest bang for the buck so to speak.

[fourthquark]

JHebert - $10 extra for VS and $50 extra for MS - good deal! - wish they had it when I purchased.

I asked the transcoding question in an earlier thread - excellent answer provided ny Norm - check this link:
http://www.vcdhelp.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?topic=59718&forum=2

Regarding your 441kHz/48kHz question, I will post a reply when I install v1.4 driver.

[JHebert]

fourthquark - thanks for the link. That thread has a lot of good info. Sorry if I took this thread a little OT but I'm just trying to learn as much as I can about this card cause it sounds better than the others I've seen so far.
Norm's transcoding explanation makes sense, but I know for a fact that the DVCII cannot do transcoding (several friends have one), despite that its hardware has the capability. I guess Dazzle didn't build the capability into their drivers and software (they also don't have WDM drivers).
I don't know too much about this, but I thought WDM support would allow an app like MediaStudio to open an AVI file encoded in whatever codec, and that software codec would decode the file, pass YUV video to the PV256 hardware codec, which would then encode it to MPEG. Maybe some technical gurus can step in here?
That thread also said that the PVR256 WDM drivers were "not connected" or something like that, as of the 1.3 version. Please let me know if that is also fixed in 1.4 version.

[norm]

Jhebert- Regarding your questions to Provideo about the PV256 Q. 44.1 and 48Khz. Originally there was some problem with providing 48Khz from the PV256 I presumed is was going to be added in later versions of software. As an example the PV356 USB version uses the same chipset and although I don't have one yet, I checked the application out and there is a selection for 44.1 and 48Khz. Fourthquark may answer that question regarding V1.4.
The other problem regarding transcoding besides the info I gave before, is as you correctly say there would have to be a software decode done then passed through the SAA7146 multimedia bridge then to the Sm2210 and back to the hard drive. ( so whats wrong with that!! )
Well depending upon the resolution of the AVI file and lets presume it is High. The CPU useage to:-
1)demultiplex the AVI video and audio in real time
2)decode the video to YUV in real time
3)decode the PCM audio in real time
4)Then asking the SAA7146 to feed the video to the SM2210 at the same time sending the info across the PCI bus the Video card
5)Then re-encoding the audio into Mpeg in software
6)Then multiplexing the mpeg video and audio together in real time and writing that to the hardrive
creates somewhat of a cpu burden. It's not that it couldn't be done but who's machine is capable of doing that. Some machines have problems capturing DVD quality.
So the catch is if a manufacturer was going to implement such a function then they would have to explain to the masses that it might not work on their machine.
We would all love a capture card to do that and some time in the future it will be done ( if theres enough people with a use for it . From a manufacturers point of view, what possible need is there for it. After all most people who buy a capture card use it to capture videos or DVDs so where is the need to transocde an AVI.
As I said before if enough people wanted it, the manufacturers would do it.
Time will tell, but if the PV256 can do it now or later then thats a big bonus.
Regarding the DVC2 not transcoding from DV to Mpeg2 ( cause that's all a DVxplore will do in real time ) Your friends might be right, I wonder if any of them had downloaded the C-Cube software plugin for Videostudio 4 ( from provideo PV251 driver ) and selected C-cube dvx card not the DAZZLE. It's quite possible the DVC2 will transcode DV to Mpeg 2. I don't have a DVC2 but my Megvc2 does and so does the PV251. And these cards are almost identical.
Regarding the question about WDM and videostudio 4 and mediastudio 6 - I wonder if anyone out there has tried the PV256 with either of those too. I couldn;t get it to work.
I presume that it will only work with Videostudio 5 since provideo have provided their plugin software.
Hope someone has downloaded the 35mb trial program.
Fourthquark - The manual for V1.4 has been posted at the Provideo site.
Cheers for now.
Cheer for now.

[JHebert]

Norm - thanks for clarifying my transcoding question. That would be a lot of cpu burden for the average user system. Maybe in the future a card based on the SM2288 would be more capable of this. Anyway I'll probably still get PV256 since transcoding would have been just an extra bonus but not really critical for me.
I'll pass along your DVCII suggestion with the VideoStudio driver plugin from the PV251. It would be cool if that actually works. By the way, is the PV251 now discontinued? If so, do you know why?
One last question - I read the tech brief on the SM2210 used in the PV256, that it supports IBP encoding at 10Mbit VBR and 15Mbit CBR, and I-frame encoding at 30Mbit. Are all these options supported in the PV256? In particular, the I-frame encoding at 30Mbit should give max quality and easier editing ability for projects where you don't want to go straight to VCD/SVCD/DVD. For comparison DV streams are about 25Mbit so the quality of 30Mbit I-frame MPEG2 should be similar.
I'll try contacting Provideo to find out if MediaStudio 6 is supported. I was assuming it is since they offered to bundle it with the PV256. I would really like to have its greater abilities and not be limited to VideoStudio.

[norm]

JHebert - The PV251 is still available. The only reason it is not in competition with the DVC2 is that the software that comes with it which is the original C-Cube plugin for videostudio and mediastudio only allows for 48Khz audio and 720 x 480 NTSC 720 x 576 Pal video. In other words, no vcd no SVCD. Also the program records in separate video and audio no multiplexing on the fly.
But besides that it does an excellent job. But of course Dazzle did alot of work on the DVC2 software to make it do everything. ( they are very similar products )
The question about I frames. Well it has not been implemented. I think this is because of high data rates that have to be written to the disk, especially when multiplexing on the fly. There have been enough problems with capturing in DVD mode. So again this comes down to the type of machine. If you had a super machine then it wouldn't be a problem. Not everyone has that type of machine.
Of course maybe they will write the drivers later.
Remember that basically a DV stream is just an Mpeg2 stream without the B and P frames. and of course some of the other bits like cetain elementary streams and info etc ..
But the quality would be superb.
Cheers

[fourthquark]

I have loaded the v1.4 drivers and application and here is my initial take:

The date for the v1.3 driver was 4-25-2001. The date for the v1.4 driver is 4-23-2001! What gives?

They seem to have dropped the task tray icon in the v1.4 application. However the new v1.4 documentation still refers to an icon in the task tray. So either the v1.4 documentation is wrong, or my installation hiccupped, or there is a switch somewhere that I haven't found. Can any other users report if they got a task bar icon when they installed the when they installed the v1.4 application?

v1.4 seems less stable with power management. In a previous post I stated that with v1.3 there was no problem going into and coming out of standby mode, despite warnings in the manual to turn off power management. With v1.4, it hangs the computer about 50% of the time.

JHebert - regarding 44.1kHz vs 48kHz audio - I can't find any settings where the audio sampling rate can be adjusted. Anyone else been able to find a control for this? JHebert, you may want to download the v1.4 manual to get an idea of what you are getting before you buy.

So far overall I am not that impressed with v1.4 vs v1.3. The main change seems to be the interface. Also the recording scheduler will be nice if it works with power management (haven't tried it yet). I think that expecting people to turn off power management is going against the trend - most new computers have power management on by default. I would like to be able to schedule multiple TV recordings for a week or so in the future, leave the computer turned on with ACPI power management enabled and let the computer go into standby between recordings, and come out of standby when it's time to record. Surely this is not too much to ask?

[tleeuwen]

I guess they dropped the tray icon, cause it's gone from my system as well. I like it better this way.

In the settings menu, switch from simple to advanced mode, now you should be able to select 48khz sound.

[fourthquark]

tleeuwen, do you mean switch to advanced mode in the "MPEG Parameter" dialog box? When I do that, I see 3 audio bit rates - 128 Kbits/sec, 224 Kbits/sec, and 384 Kbits/sec. Do 2 of these correspond to to 44.1KHz and 48KHz ?

[norm]

To - Fourthquark and other PV256 users.
Have any of you tried the 384kbs audio selection.
If so did it record at 48Khz or not.
I just received the PV356 USB version and the 48Khz selection did not work it still recorded at 44.1Khz at 224Kbs.

[fourthquark]

Norm, I would be happy to try the 384kbs audio selection. After recording, how do I determine is the audio portion is 48KHz or 44.1KHz?

[norm]

If you playback the captured file in windows media player and select File - properties - advanced - directsound device - properties. It will tell you how many sample per second. 44100 or 48000.
Thanks...
Also Fourthquark and other PV256 users
Have any of you noticed if there is any video output to the TV in preview mode in V1.4. It was functional in V1.0 then in subsequent versions it was disabled.

[fourthquark]

Norm, I finally got a software MPEG2 player (Elecard) installed to play back MPEG2 captures in WMP6.4.

Capturing from TV tuner.
First I tried selecting standard DVD capture. When I play captured MPEG in WMP, WMP Properties shows captured audio is 44.1KHz and avg.bit.rate is 176400.
Then I tried advanced settings, selected "Full MPEG2" and 384Kbps audio. When I play captured MPEG in WMP, WMP still shows captured audio is 44.1KHz and avg.bit.rate is 176400.
Then I tried advanced settings, selected "Full MPEG2" and 224Kbps audio. When I play captured MPEG in WMP, WMP still shows captured audio is 44.1KHz and avg.bit.rate is 176400.

So, for the capture settings I tried, there appears to be no effect on audio sample rate and audio bit rate. I guess that means "DVD" captures are not compliant?

Regarding video output settings - I can't find any at all in V1.4 - anyone else been able to find them?

[norm]

Thanks Fourthquark - It looks like they haven't got the 44.1 and 48Khz right yet. Maybe in the next version. It didn't work in the PV356 as well. I guess it;s not a major concern at the moment. It seems everyone is using SVCD so 44.1 is OK for that.
The video output to a TV is on all the time. I'm not sure if you have a TV connected to the output or not. But if you have then it should playback you files but when you see the incomming picture on your computer screen the TV is suppose to have the same picture. But as I said before it was disabled after version 1.0. Not sure why. They never did explain. We'll see if anyone else has had any luck.

[fourthquark]

I don't have a TV connected to my computer at present. And when I do connect a TV, it will be to the second port of my Matrox G450 Dual-head card. I am hoping that I can use one of the Matrox Dual-head modes to view PC-sourced video on TV. I understand that the mode Matrox calls DVD-Max will output any video full-screen to TV, not just DVD as implied by the name. Do you think this will work to output the PV256 video window to TV?

The PV256 v1.4 app certainly comes across as having a few "rough edges". I already mentioned my disappointment with its unpredictable behavior with ACPI power management Standby mode (definitely worse than v1.3 app). Something else I just noticed is that it "Mutes" my sound card when it exits - v1.3 app never did this! There also appears tpo be an issue with failing to over-write previously-recorded video when you specify the same name, but I have to experiment with that one a bit more and report back.

Do you know if anyone at Provideo is watching these threads? I would be a good source of information for patches and future enhancements. I may send them an email and ask them to tune in!

Nobody replied to my earlier comment pointing out the the v1.3 driver identifies itself with date 25-Apr-2001, while v1.4 driver identifies itself with date 23-Apr-2001. Also, v1.4 driver download is slightly smaller than v1.3 driver download - usually later releases are bigger. Can anyone ofer an explanation fo this?

The driver date and size issue, combined with what appears to me to be a less-refined v1.4 app. compared to v1.3, is causing me to wonder what is going on. Is this earlier code just relabelled with a higher version number?

[JHebert]

Norm - Can you give any feedback or comments on your new PV356 USB capture box? How does it compare in video/audio capture quality to the PV256? Any significant differences or advantages of one compared to the other?
Also, thanks everyone for continuing to post comments on my 48Khz audio questions and the 1.4 drivers. I'm still on the fence over which hardware MPEG device to get and I appreciate the insights.

[norm]

Fourthquark- The Matrox G450 should work fine - My G400 works well with the PV256. You can view the recording through the Matrox to the TV. I'll report back next week regarding the problems you are having with V1.4. I should have one of my PV256 back then.
It is true that V1.3 is slightly larger than V1.4 - they may have simply cleaned up the code. The date on V1.3 ( cap7146.sys ) is July 18, and V1.4 is October 4. Windows looks at the date of the INF file. not the SYS file. The contents of the INF file will not change for the PV256. They should have changed the date of the INF file for V1.4.

JHebert - Regarding the PV356 vs PV256. Firstly the current drivers for the PV356 have a few problems but the capture quality is similar in VCD and SVCD. If I was going to choose between them I would go for the PV256 however the main problem with the PV256 is it's compatibiltiy with certain Motherboard, Video Card and Sound card combinations.
If you've got the right combination the PV256 works excellent. Unfortunately not everyone has the right combination so that's why some people have problems.
V1.6 software has been released but doesn't seemed to have fixed the incompatibility problems