DVD-R VERSUS DVD+R

[MATT_THE_MOUSE]

PLEASE GUYS CAN YA KEEP IT SIMPLE FOR THE NEWBIES ON HERE;
WHATS THE MAIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE -R AND THE +R FORMATS?
WHICH IS THE BETTER FORMAT?
SHOULD I GET A DUAL BURNER?

THANX FOR ANY HELP

[jaxxboss]

I'll tell you the same thing in both your posts. READ the guides ya lazy SOB, that has all been answered.

[kabanero]

AND DO NOT USE ALL CAPS IN YOUR POSTS!

[garryheather]

Cross posting is a no-no, too.

Do a forum search - sadly this is an all too common post and it always starts arguments. In between the abuse and flames the differences have been detailed, and I seem to recall there's a sticky around here somewhere to boot.

[lordsmurf]

Read here. Read lordsmurf.com. Either way.... read.

[Will Hay]

WHATS THE MAIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE -R AND THE +R FORMATS?

One has a + and one has a -

......WHICH IS THE BETTER FORMAT?

There is no better format.
Like VHS and betamax there's nothing in the spec, it comes down to preference and like the VCR war one of the DVD formats will eventually win.
My money's on DVD-R, but lets not get that into that

.....SHOULD I GET A DUAL BURNER?

Yep, they're dirt cheap, get a dual burner.
Will

[Gurm]

One minor technicality is that with +R, edits made after the fact to DVD Video using an authoring program... will play seamlessly in a set-top box. With -R there's a pause or an outright failure to play the changes.

- Gurm

[Trenton_Net]

Thats only if the player goes out of its way to support DVD+R. On a regular DVD Player thats not the case.

Another intresting note is that with DVD+R you need to mess around with compatability bits and whatnot depending on your DVD Player and such. Where as DVD-R you don't need to worry about anything. Just burn and go. Your disk will work in almost everything.

[jaxxboss]

Another intresting note is that with DVD+R you need to mess around with compatability bits and whatnot depending on your DVD Player and such.

Not true at all. I burn and play on my dvd palyer.

[Trenton_Net]

My friend has a DVD player and he can't get jack to run on it unless he configures the compatibility bit. Where as, on some new players that have the DVD+R logo, it works pretty well without it. The key word is DEPENDS. But as far as I know, naturally DVD-R is more inherently compatible to DVD Players altogether as no real changes need to be made at all (if any), where as DVD+R must go out of its way in order for it to work since the format altogether is different from DVD-R or the specs from the DVD-Forum.

[tompika]

Thats only if the player goes out of its way to support DVD+R.

What do you mean out of its way? What I burn is DVD-Video compliant...
All Pana and Pioneer standalone should play plus medias if my $40 shitty Chinese player does.

Another intresting note is that with DVD+R you need to mess around with compatability bits and whatnot depending on your DVD Player and such.

Everything gets messy if you don't know what you're doing and whatnot and such

Where as DVD-R you don't need to worry about anything.

Except princos and whatnot and such...but you know better than I do, right Trenton_Net?

I knew all the plus haters started to come out again...

[Trenton_Net]

What do you mean out of its way? What I burn is DVD-Video compliant...
All Pana and Pioneer standalone should play plus medias if my $40 shitty Chinese player does.

Just because your Chinese DVD player plays fine, doesn't mean everything else will too. By that logic, all people are good with computers, because a few are awsome at it. So everyone must be good at doing that. I Know for a FACT some Pioneers won't play DVD+R correctly. Authoring complient DVD is the first step. However, burning that data on a DVD-RAM and expecting it to play on all players is crazy, as even the most complient of video won't read if the medum is unreadable by your hardware.

Everything gets messy if you don't know what you're doing and whatnot and such

Like anything in life, things can be easy or complicated. Compatability bits may not be hard to understand for some, but they sure as hell don't make things more easier or user friendly for people, or DVD Players.

Except princos and whatnot and such...but you know better than I do, right Trenton_Net?

Medum quality has nothing to do with file format, or compatability. I could find equaly crappy DVD+R media, Floppy disks, or any other kind of media and apply the same logic you have. In which case that would be wrong, since just finding a few crappy DVD+R medias does NOT mean DVD+Rs are just crappy and non-compatable.

The diffrence between your arguments and mine, is that I nether hate nor prefer ether standard for that fact alone. Some of your replys seem almost emotional, than actually bring facts which give further support to your reasoning. Where as at least im trying to give weight to what I say, as any reasonable person can see at LEAST why one would make such statments.

[tompika]

You want people to think that there are mountains of difference between +R and -R formats.
How then can a +R(W) (physical) disc with a booktype of -R possibly play in most players?

on some new players that have the DVD+R logo, it works pretty well without it.

I know lots of player with no DVD+R logo that play them well...

Medum quality has nothing to do with file format, or compatability. I could find equaly crappy DVD+R media.

Of course
What I was sayin was if a player plays DVD-R but wouldn't play DVD+R as it is
then its the question of one bit. Don't tell me the plus media is harder to read...

[indolikaa]

+R has a better wobble groove.

[Trenton_Net]

indolikaa --> Hehe, I suppose it just might LOL

tompika --->

You want people to think that there are mountains of difference between +R and -R formats. How then can a +R(W) (physical) disc with a booktype of -R possibly play in most players?

Thats the result of the bit setting trick. In regards to the compatibility bit, while yes, adding that can sometimes fool a DVD-R only player into playing the disk, it is by no means a blanket solution, which covers all cases. In fact the compatibility bit is merely a workaround which attempts to widen the amount of players which can read the disk, since only most of the new players have the inherent ability to understand and read DVD+R media. As you can see, DVD-R was designed by the DVD-Forum with players in mind, which is why its format probably follows closer to that of a commercial DVD Disk. Again, this is the same reason why a VCD header trick does not ensure that it will work on all players in trying to get an SVCD to load. Its simply a workaround or hack which sometimes helps.

know lots of player with no DVD+R logo that play them well...

I equaly know many DVD players which can't be fooled with a bit setting workaround and as such can't read DVD+R disks at all. That includes some big names such as Pioneer.

What I was sayin was if a player plays DVD-R but wouldn't play DVD+R as it is
then its the question of one bit. Don't tell me the plus media is harder to read...

One media is not inherently harder to read than another. They are just different. Similarly, French may not be any harder to read than English. They just differ in language. As such with DVD Players, one could say it might not know how to read the DVD+R “Language” because it was never designed with that intent. In fact, that’s why I said most DVD Players, which support DVD+R, need to go out of their way to support it since your really just adding the DVD+R subset to the already standard DVD set which is used for commercial DVDs.

[tompika]

What different language are you talking about?

You burn the same DATA on DVD-R that I burn on DVD+R.

[Trenton_Net]

What different language are you talking about?

You burn the same DATA on DVD-R that I burn on DVD+R.

Yes, and I can burn that same data on a DVD-ROM, or a video game cartrige, or write each bit on post-it notes. The data remains the same, but the medium is diffrent. As such, how can you expect a player to read a DVD+R disk, if it doesn't know how to read the data off of medium?

Thats the same thing as asking someone to read a Chinese book, even though the Chinese contains the exact same formula to calculate pie as an english textbook. Yes the data, and format is the same, but the medium is diffrent, and older players can't read the DVD+R medum or how the data is organized to extract the data to interpret it. Thats the same way Chinese and English are totaly diffrent mediums to convay the same message.

In fact, I beleive the compatability bit used in older players was designed to fool the system into reading the DVD+R disk as a dual layer medium. Thats because the reflectivity of the media was at a diffrent index than commercial DVDs and DVD-R alltogether. As such the lazer needs to be in a different mode just to get the data itself read (Regardless if your data is complient or not)

[Trenton_Net]

Sorry, Double post.

[tompika]

What different language are you talking about?

You burn the same DATA on DVD-R that I burn on DVD+R.

Yes, and I can burn that same data on a DVD-ROM, or a video game cartrige, or write each bit on post-it notes. The data remains the same, but the medium is diffrent. As such, how can you expect a player to read a DVD+R disk, if it doesn't know how to read the data off of medium?

Yo! You got lost.
We are talking about DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-ROM
Its not like Chinese vs English or DVD vs cartridge.

[Trenton_Net]

Yo! You got lost.
We are talking about DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-ROM
Its not like Chinese vs English or DVD vs cartridge.

You don't understand. DVD-R and DVD+R are on totaly diffrent mediums. Sure they look physicly the same, but their reflectivity is diffrent, as well as the structure in which data is stored. Never mind that the data is complient or Identical to that of what you can burn on a DVD-R. The actual way the data is stored is diffrent, not what you are storing. I can store the same information on a PC in a 100 diffrent ways, and a program may only be able to read a few of them correctly without errors.

BTW: DVD-RAM is traditionaly a cartrige format (Caddy). Except it uses a CD instead of ROM chips.

[kabanero]

Trenton,

Are you on drugs?

You probably don't understand yourself what are you talking about.

[Trenton_Net]

Trenton,

Are you on drugs?

You probably don't understand yourself what are you talking about.

I see. That’s a very constructive comment <Sigh>. I suggest you explain to me what parts you don’t understand, as I have iterated myself numerous times. If you still don't understand the definition of the word media, then I suggest you consult another source for the answer.

[kabanero]

[quote="Trenton_Net"]

BTW: DVD-RAM is traditionaly a cartrige format (Caddy). Except it uses a CD instead of ROM chips.

[Trenton_Net]

[quote="kabanero"]

BTW: DVD-RAM is traditionaly a cartrige format (Caddy). Except it uses a CD instead of ROM chips.

DVD-RAM is like a Sony Mini-Disk. They are traditionaly distributed in cartrige form. As such, you don't actually insert a CD into your player or unit. You insert the cartrige. Cartrige does NOT automaticly mean it has ROM chips internally as its memory source.

[Faustus]

Ok this thread is going no where fast, there is lots of info about the different formats both here and all over the net. If you want more info I suggest checking them out. This type of question here only leads to strife.