How can I convert an mpg SVCD from 23.976 to 29.97?

[TheOne2424]

I know this may sound stupid but I can't seem to use TMPGE. It gives me an error that the file type is not supported. The original mpg2 file was encoded at 23.976 which plays fine on my PC. However, when I used VCDImager to create a SVCD for my DVD player, the movie is jerky on my TV but still plays fine on my PC. My only source of the movie is the mpg2 file which is why I need a way to convert it to 29.97. I've used TMPGE many times in the pass for DIVX, VCD mpgs and AVIs with success but I can't find any luck with this SVCD mpg2 file. Thanks for any help.

[Yeshi]

think about it before you do it. Converting it to 29.97 will make it way more jerky. Let me explain why.

If you do a 3:2 pulldown conversion, it wont be jerky but you will lose sync with audio

If you do a straight conversion from 23.97 to 29.97 it will be way more jerky. Heres why.

You cant just throw up the framerate of a movie an expect it to play smoother, its the opposite. If you make convert a movie from 23.87 to 29.97 you want to keep the audio sync right? SO when converting from 23.97 to 29.97 the encoder doesnt have 6 new frames, so it uses repeated frames. since 24 images are played every second, the encoder uses image 24, and uses that same image for image 25,26,27,28,29,30. So in essence when converting from 23.97 to 29.97 you will actually have 7 still frames in your video, which is NOT going to help it run much smoother

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Yeshi on 2001-10-12 01:49:40 ]</font>

[Vejita-sama]

Yeshi I'm not sure what you're talking about??? You HAVE to telecine (aka 3:2 pulldown) a 23.976fps source -> 29.97fps (in theory your DVD player will fix this on it's own but...)

Telecining DOES NOT make several still frames in your video! It creates 2 hybird frames form 4 progessive frames. And there will be no auto sync issues, the you changed the fps but the movie is the same length, so the audio will sync up fine.

Please take a look at:
http://toolbox.sgi.com/TasteOfDT/documents/video/lurker/fields/fields.html

for more info on fields, progessive and interlacing.

TheOne2424, here's what you do:

1) Get your MPEG back on the HD
2) De-mux it w/ TMPGenc
3) Apply pulldown (http://www.doom9.org/software2.htm#supportutils)
4) Re-mux with bbMPEG
5) Burn.

Note - this might not be the only reason your SVCD is jumpy, you could have encoded the wrong field order. What's the source video and how did you encode it (software, settings, etc). Luck

[Yeshi]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
Telecining DOES NOT make several still frames in your video!
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I KNOW. telecing does it properly, but just converting it from 23.97 to 29.97 WITHOUT telecining DOES make 7 still frames per second in your video. WHY DONT YOU TRY IT YOURSELF.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Yeshi on 2001-10-12 02:33:51 ]</font>

[Yeshi]

My point here is that since the DVD player does a 3:2 pulldown on playback ANYWAY, if you think converting from 23.97 to 29.97 is going to make it SMOOTHER you are WRONG! try it yourself and see.

[Vejita-sama]

How would someone convert from 23.976fps -> 29.97fps w/o telecining? What program or option or setting does this? I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything, but you said:

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
If you do a 3:2 pulldown conversion, it wont be jerky but you will lose sync with audio
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Which isn't true. Re-reading your post I get the impression that you know what telecining is, but know of some other way to convert the frame rate would just insert dupicate frames.

Anyway, we both agree that the guy needs to telecine his MPEG so let's leave it at that

[kinneera]

I'm sure he's simply referring to the fact that you can set the source and output framerates in TMPGEnc to different values. And as he is suggesting, doing so when you are increasing the framerate produces horrible results.

[Yeshi]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-12 02:38:51, Vejita-sama wrote:
How would someone convert from 23.976fps -> 29.97fps w/o telecining?
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
you know when you open a video file in TMPGEnc and you click setting, and there is a box that specify's the frame rate, well you click the arrow, and there are a number of options! brilliant! one of them is 29.97! in that way, you can convert from 23.97 to 29.97 without telecining, and the encoder introduces 6 still frames every second.

[VidGuy]

If you have a 23.976 MPeg, what I would do is demultiplex it, run pulldown on the mpv file to convert it to 29.97, then remux it.

There should be no audio sync issues doing this.

Why you would want to do this without telecining is beyond me - it just lowers the quality of your movie because there are more frames to record, whereas telecining is all about duplicating fields internally to your DVD player.

[TheOne2424]

Thanks for all the feedback. The mpg movie I have was d/l off the net so I don't know exactly how it was made. The only thing that makes this movie stand out from my others is that its frame rate is 23.976 which comes out jerky on both my Apex 600 players. This does not happen to my SVCD mpgs which are at 29.97. I was reading elsewhere that the 23.97fps is the cause for the jerkyness thats happening on my Apex DVD players since it plays fine on my PC. I just tested the SVCD out on my bro's Pioneer DVD and it plays perfectly. Also, does anyone know why TMPGEnc does not open the mpg file? It can open the audio source portion but when I try video portion, it says it's unsupported. I thought TMPGEnc supported mpg2. Thanks again for your help.

[Yeshi]

TMPGEnc can NOT use mpeg-2 as a SOURCE! this is bloody stupid, it can create certain mpeg files, but cant open them. thats how it is for me too.

[TheOne2424]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>

TheOne2424, here's what you do:

1) Get your MPEG back on the HD
2) De-mux it w/ TMPGenc
3) Apply pulldown (http://www.doom9.org/software2.htm#supportutils)
4) Re-mux with bbMPEG
5) Burn.

Note - this might not be the only reason your SVCD is jumpy, you could have encoded the wrong field order. What's the source video and how did you encode it (software, settings, etc). Luck
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks Vejita-sama, this method did the trick for me. Works perfectly in my APEX player now. BTW, is there a reason to use bbMPEG to re-mux instead of TMPGEnc? Thanks again.

[homerpez]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-12 20:28:31, Yeshi wrote:
TMPGEnc can NOT use mpeg-2 as a SOURCE! this is bloody stupid, it can create certain mpeg files, but cant open them. thats how it is for me too.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Use DVD2AVI on any MPEG-2 source (DVD, or ATI AIW Radeon output files), it'll make a project file out of the source.

And yes, it IS stupid.