Panasonic DMR E80/E100 Shootout

[shutterbug]

I'm hoping some of the experienced users here can add some insight. I've read hours of posts here (and over the net) and have come to the conclusion that the Panasonic E-80/E-100 seem to be the top choices in their price range. I have several questions before making my purchase/mind up and I'd love input from those of you with experience using some of these decks.

I'm looking to transfer some VHS & Hi-8 to DVD-r with ability to view on other players, as well as use the recorder for recording from cable --tv shows, movies, baseball games)--to DVD-r. Mpeg video & annimations from PC (via capture S-video out) to DVD recorder. Photo DVD-r capability would be a big plus!

The Hard drive based recorders with editing functions seem to be the way to go. With that said, anything else worth looking at besides the DMR 80 & 100? Right now I'm leaning towards the 80 and trying to figure out if the DMR 100 is worth the xtra $300?? I'd also be interested in blank media suggestions and which I should avoid.

Right now prices online seem to be about $600 for the E80 with an extended 4/5 yr warranty & shipping, vs $900 for the same on a DMR-E100. Any thoughts on waiting for a price drop??

From what I understand, some pros and cons are:
DMR-E100
+ 4x burn to dvd-r
+ An xtra 40 gig of space
+ Ability to dub/duplicate dvd-r discs created with E-100
+ better menu creation & indexing ?? (for baseball games I'd like to be able to set a chapter at each half inning w/smooth transitions & no lags)

+ Builty in Time Base Corrector (Not sure if that's on recording or playback--and I'm still not sure what that sucker does! LOL)

- SD card slot only sounds good for future digital pictures I take. But I have no way of getting them from my PC to an SD card.
- I don't own anything firewire

DMR-E80
- 1x only burn on DVD-r
- Can't dub/dupe a disc recorded with E-80 back to the E-80 via another dvd player?
- Fair editing functions and results?

Thanks if you've indulged a newbie this far and can post some comments! I just hate making a big purchase like this to find out all the negatives in hindsight

[thoots]

I'm looking to transfer some VHS & Hi-8 to DVD-r with ability to view on other players, as well as use the recorder for recording from cable --tv shows, movies, baseball games)--to DVD-r. Mpeg video & annimations from PC (via capture S-video out) to DVD recorder. Photo DVD-r capability would be a big plus!

Let me dive in a bit. That's all fine, maybe except for the "Photo DVD-R" thing. I don't think either of these will make a DVD full of still pictures. That's pretty easily done on a computer, though -- even just "VCD's" are wonderful, if you've got a DVD player that'll play them. I use Ulead PictureShow for that kind of thing.

Right now prices online seem to be about $600 for the E80 with an extended 4/5 yr warranty & shipping, vs $900 for the same on a DMR-E100. Any thoughts on waiting for a price drop??

You can do whole lots better than $600 for the E80, so long as you stay out of BestBuyCircuitCity. If you have anything nearby that employs people on commission, you should be able to beat $600 handily. And, of course, there are always the "online" options that are even lower....

DMR-E100
+ Ability to dub/duplicate dvd-r discs created with E-100
+ better menu creation & indexing ?? (for baseball games I'd like to be able to set a chapter at each half inning w/smooth transitions & no lags)
+ Builty in Time Base Corrector (Not sure if that's on recording or playback--and I'm still not sure what that sucker does! LOL)

DMR-E80
- Can't dub/dupe a disc recorded with E-80 back to the E-80 via another dvd player?
- Fair editing functions and results?

Neither can dub from DVD-R to the HDD, so that takes care of the "dub/duplicate" thing. Just hook up another DVD player, and record a copy like you were recording from a VCR, if you've really gotta have that. These will only dub from DVD-RAM to HDD, or from HDD to DVD-R or to DVD-RAM. Except, that is, for "still pictures." The E100 can take pictures from your memory card and dub them onto DVD-RAM. Neither will dub still pictures onto DVD-R.

Both have a built-in Time Base Corrector or whatever -- the E80 certainly doesn't "lack" one.

I believe the editing functions are the same. The E100 makes "picture menus," with thumbnails from your video. The E80 has no "picture thumbnails." Both allow you to choose from 9 different background design/color combinations.

Bottom line, they're a whole lot more alike than they are different.

Hope this helps!

thoots

[oldfart13]

The only other model you might want to look at is the Pioneer 510 which CAN do a DVD-R to HDD dub so long as the DVD-R isn't protected. It also has firewire in and out and an 80 Gig HDD. I don't have one so I can't give you any detail on it. The E80 can be made to record to the HDD using a DVD-R in itself by hooking the output to the input. Press "play" on the DVD part of the E80 and "record" on the HDD part of the E80. You'd think this wouldn't work...but it does. Not as good as doing a straight copy to the HDD as it must be encoded again. Best would be to copy to a DVD-RAM disc and then port it to your computer to be authored and then burned on 4X discs. That would save a lot of time...

[shutterbug]

Thoots--thanks for the info!

I don't think either of these will make a DVD full of still pictures. That's pretty easily done on a computer, though -- even just "VCD's" are wonderful, if you've got a DVD player that'll play them.

--I.E. my brother's dvd won't play a VCD. Sounds like I'm better off with a PC burner for that.

You can do whole lots better than $600 for the E80...

--$600 is with shipping, online, and with an extended warranty. One of the few instances when I might actually purchase one.

Neither can dub from DVD-R to the HDD, so that takes care of the "dub/duplicate" thing. Just hook up another DVD player, and record a copy like you were recording from a VCR

---Another example. I'm looking to make a few discs for family members, then duplicate them w/o re-encoding. I thought the 80 had a copy protection scheme that prevented digital dvd-to-dvd transfer (and the 100 did not) But, may brain could be mush by now, too.

I believe the editing functions are the same.

--ok, clears that up too.

Bottom line, they're a whole lot more alike than they are different. Hope this helps!

Hmm. So they basically seem the same except 40 gig more HD space, a card reader. and 4x burning...... vs $300

[shutterbug]

Oldfart Thanks for the info!

I looked at the Pioneer. If I'm not mistaken, you can't edit off the HD. And I don't have a PC DVD burner so it spoils that idea. Sounds like I need both. lol

[thoots]

--I.E. my brother's dvd won't play a VCD. Sounds like I'm better off with a PC burner for that.

Either way - VCD if you've got something to play it, or DVD. The programs like Ulead DVD PictureShow do fine jobs with either kind of disc.

--$600 is with shipping, online, and with an extended warranty. One of the few instances when I might actually purchase one.

OK, if you want to go there. I didn't.... Actually, thinking back.... I've been buying "consumer electronics" since the mid-1970's. I've been buying "computer equipment" since the mid-1980's. I have had ONE piece that had some kind of "defect" -- a Harman/Kardon CD changer that wouldn't "open" its disc drawer from Day One, which I took back. I've paid for a few "extended warranties" over the years, but not many. The bottom line remains, though, that I have NEVER EVER made use of any of them. Absolute, 100% pure profit for the stores and such....

---Another example. I'm looking to make a few discs for family members, then duplicate them w/o re-encoding. I thought the 80 had a copy protection scheme that prevented digital dvd-to-dvd transfer (and the 100 did not)

There's no "copy protection" scheme in any DVD recorder, as far as I know. You can get into some restrictions with CPRM on "commercial" programs, but I don't think you're talking about trying to copy commercial VHS tapes or DVD's. So, there's nothing to prevent you from copying your DVD-R's -- it's just some kind of physical thing along the lines of "a finalized DVD-R is a different 'format' from video recorded on the HDD or a DVD-RAM disc, and it can't be 'dubbed' back to the hard drive." Hook up a second DVD player to the thing, or do the "output to input" thing, and do it that way, if you really really need to copy one of your DVD-R's.

If you want to make multiple DVD-R copies, you just leave the video on your HDD, and then do several dubbing sessions to multiple DVD-R discs. Or, just do one dub to a DVD-RAM disc, which you then COULD dub back to the HDD without re-encoding, and then you could once again dub that to more DVD-R's from the HDD.

Hmm. So they basically seem the same except 40 gig more HD space, a card reader. and 4x burning...... vs $300

You got it! Not to sneeze at the bigger HD, the card reader, or faster burning, but that's half again as much as the E80 costs. Oh, and don't forget those "picture menus" that people seem to love. Still, the E80H will get the job done, and that sure seems like a whole lot more to pay just for a bit more capacity and a few other things....

thoots

[Bob W]

I bought the E50 which is without any hard drive. Thing is I have yet to miss not having the hard drive. If any editing is required on the recorded discs I simply record to DVD-Ram and do the editing on my computer using NeoDVD Plus then make the final DVDR disc on my DVD burner. In my case I'm glad I didn't spend the extra $300 for a hard drive.

[thoots]

I bought the E50 which is without any hard drive. Thing is I have yet to miss not having the hard drive. If any editing is required on the recorded discs I simply record to DVD-Ram and do the editing on my computer using NeoDVD Plus then make the final DVDR disc on my DVD burner. In my case I'm glad I didn't spend the extra $300 for a hard drive.

Well, just keep in mind that the HDD is useful for much more than just "editing." When it comes to "replacing a VCR," having your programs on the hard drive, all named nice and neatly, with instant access to a bunch of programs, it is very, very nice!

And, gosh, for folks without DVD burners in their computers, let's look at the economics:

DMR-E50 goes for about $450 in the stores now.
DMR-E80H goes for about $600 in the stores now.

Your results might vary widely from these, but that's essentially the retail ballpark on these things. So, that's $150 more for an E80H, and its hard drive that allows you to do so much more than an E50 could ever do. I'll bet it's hard to find a computer DVD-recording drive plus anything resembling useful software for only $150...

Personally, I've got both an E50 and an E80, and I keep 'em both churning daily!

thoots

[houtx67]

Also consider how long you intend to use the recorder before purchasing a better one in the future (and there will be). I bought the E30 and regretted not waiting for the HS2. If I had the HS2, I know I would have waited longer before purchasing another. I bought the E-100H because it had the extra options (particularly the card reader and the extra GBs). The menu's are a nice bonus. If I record anything in my E30 (only when I am recording something else on my E100H at the same time), I finalize it in my E100H for the better menus. Because of the extra options (though I'm only really taking advantage of the larger HD at the moment), I know I will wait longer before getting my next recorder. The extra $250 I paid (I paid $850) was worth the time I'll get to enjoy the extra features until I buy another recorder (to me anyway).

[handyguy]

Try to find the recorder you want at amazon.com as they usually post a manual you can download & read first.

[oldfart13]

Oldfart Thanks for the info!

I looked at the Pioneer. If I'm not mistaken, you can't edit off the HD. And I don't have a PC DVD burner so it spoils that idea. Sounds like I need both. lol

You can't edit using the 810 which is a Tivo unit. You can using the 510 which has no Tivo...

[PinkzPantha]

I bought the E50 which is without any hard drive. Thing is I have yet to miss not having the hard drive. If any editing is required on the recorded discs I simply record to DVD-Ram and do the editing on my computer using NeoDVD Plus then make the final DVDR disc on my DVD burner. In my case I'm glad I didn't spend the extra $300 for a hard drive.

That would be GREAT, however, how does one get the DVD-RAM disc to read in a non-RAM compatible drive, such as the Sony DRU-510A that i have?!? Would it, among other non-RAM-havin'-@$$ drives, be able to "rip" off of a DVD-RAM (without having to "Finalize" the disc, if RAM's can actually be finalized, that is... ahem )? This would make the HDD Panasonic recorders too big for their britches... erm, too much to be worth the extra money for computer owners (with a DVD Burner)!

[oldfart13]

You would need to get a RAM compatable drive. There are a number of them available from Panasonic, Toshiba, LG and others. They can be had for as little as $40US. That shouldn't break your bank account, especially if you can afford that Sony burner...

[PinkzPantha]

You would need to get a RAM compatable drive. There are a number of them available from Panasonic, Toshiba, LG and others. They can be had for as little as $40US. That shouldn't break your bank account, especially if you can afford that Sony burner...

Thanx! 8)

However, i am still vexed...
I have read that there are 2 types of DVD-RAM, 1 for Data & 1 for Video only, the latter of which has some sort of copy protection.

What i need to know is if anyone has *actually* tried this successfully:
1. Record a TV show to DVD-RAM on a Panasonic DVD Recorder, say the DMR-50 or 60.
2. Put the recorded DVD-RAM disc into a cheap RAM-compatible DVD drive & ripped those files to the computer for editing, such as the Panasonic LF-D311 *(fairly cheap on eBay).
3. Edited & created a cool, compatible DVD-R out of the results?

If this is indeed possible, and is not too daunting of a task (transcoding, re-encoding, ad infinitum), it could very well make the HDD Recorder decks sort of a moot point to those with computers, considering the total cost of the equipment. Can anyone verify this info?!?