As if we needed it, a new format.

[tgpo]

Ladies and Gentlemen, the EVD

[jolo]

Hah,

I think this is GREAT !!

It appears that they are the only nation to stand up to major corporations and consortiums.

Didn't they come out with SVCD so that they would not have to be at the mercy of the MPAA ? I am not sure.

I do know that they pulled a great move by telling Microsoft to take a walk with their outrageous licensing fees for Office. The government will not be using Office any more on their PCS. They helped sponser another office suite that I would really like to get my hands on. Anything that helps free enterprise and the competative market place is good for this country, jobs, fair pricing.

Now, finally, someone has stood up the the MPAA to create a format that the MPAA cannot control. It means choice competition. It means that the MPAA can buy out organizations like Junior Achievement to brainwash our children, but all the politicians they want, federal judges, etc and it won't matter a bit.

I wish the U.S. government would enforce its anti-trust and fair use laws to allow the market place to work.

What should happen when there is not a monopoly is that the market place decides on what formats and products are successful or not. When you have a consordium and only one format like is with the DVD format controlled by the MPAA, it is monopolistic, there are no choices. If this workes out, maybe, jst maybe there will be some competetion, technology advances, jobs get created, prices get lowered, innovation increases.

I am not a lawyer but a U.S. citizen that believes in democracy and the free enterprise system. Should it not be illegal for the MPAA , rather than individual companies that compete in the open market place, to madate macrovision, region codes, PAL and NTSC so that competition is limited and profits are made by a few ? Isn't that against some anti-trust laws ??

[Duchess]

I'm not so sure it will do any good since:

1. Existing players won't work with the new standard and people will be reluctant to buy new equipment.

2. If the studio's won't let them release films on the new standard the only films that will be available will be homemade Chinese ones. Not exactly a popular source of movies.

This will probably end up as a one nation standard, but as China has the biggest population in the world it could still be a viable proposition.

[jolo]

Duchess,

We do not know yet if what you are saying is true, and what changes are going to occur after this occurs.

1. I know that I just loaded a firmware upgrade on my Liteon LVD-2001 player yesterday. Why would firmware upgrades be out of the question ?

2. What if other countries start adapting the new format. Will movie makers just say, okay we are going to ignore Europe and Asia ? Currently VCD and SVCD and very popular in Asia and in Europe because of the MPAAs greed. Also, I can currently download for a fee Divx movies which is legal and play them on my Liteon DVD player.

3. More and more PCs are diving multimedia systems, the hottest things going are the shuttle type small boxes so this can be done. If you are launching a movie from you PC, the format will be irrelevant.

4. SVCD is not a one nation standard and China developed that.

5. Do you know the population of China ?

6. Did you think you would see the day when legal download sales would over take purchases via CD media. It just happen and as the choices of downloads and formats get better, it will be bye bye RIAA. We will finally have competition in music. I know that the download companies are now expanding to go directly after artists so they DO NOT sign with the RIAA pirates. I love it, competition, lower prices, choices, no monopoly. I see the same thing coming down with movies.

7. I am happy to say that I believe Duchess that in my opinion you are overstating the power of the MPAA. Besides the , do whatever the corporations want us to do, majorty in the U.S., the rest of the world is fighting against them. Down with monopolies and illegal consortiums that do price fixing and retard technology, innovation and competition.

[thefox149]

the chinese are very resourceful....

The came up with the CVD standard also ..which so happens to be half dvd
which also happens to be supported by many a player

I would think they are smart enough or have enough forsight into thinking this thru......I would guess or like to see that the current players would play these EVD's....

hence the genius behind it and giving those MPAA bastards the ulitmate F#@k you...

as for media companies they can blow me. If they had made it more competive in the first place rather than over pricing ...then there is no need to download... in Australia it's 35 dollars for your latest CD.....If it were something like $12 dollars I would buy.....I know how much a blank cD and case and the sleeve cost and it an't 35 dollars.....how can they sleep at night I know on top of a pile of money with many beautiful ladies........We in Austrlia had our first law case for music priacy by some guy who was a dj letting people download his mix CD's...I am a dj....and let me tell you when i am mixing I ulter the music so much (speed pitch adding other sounds) that in fact in some circumstances it is unregonisable...to my understanding (my own thought will have to look into this) only original music can be copyrighted.....he has changed it then distrubuted it....so he used it personally then ultered it and made something new....hence he should be suing them for copyright...damn muthf@$kers.

[MOVIEGEEK]

The MPAA doesn't enforce the DVD format,the DVD Forum does: www.dvdforum.org/format-format.htm

The MPAA only enforces movie copyrights and regulates movie distribution.I think this new format is great for the Chinese if they sell homegrown films,if they intend to sell international films they will still have to abide by all copyright and licensing laws...they can't have it both ways.

[jolo]

I thing some of my point is being missed.

The "official" role of the MPAA was quoted, but they do a whole lot more than that. For example paying of the prositiutes at Junior Achievement (719-540-8000), for $100,000 to use their exclusive access to get inside public schools to brainwash the children on the MPAA point of view of technology, file sharing etc.
Junior Achievement is a non-profit that is supposed to teach about understanding economics and inspiring kids to create business, at risk students and for kids to get an education. They have never done this type of thing before and please call your local schools and say that JA should not be allowed access to your children.

In this new digital world, they have way less influence than people think. First of all , you can't just call the country with the largest population in the world, "just one country".
If most of Europe and most of Asia who are pissed anyway at America's bullying decide the same, I guarantee that contracts will be made with studios to distribute movies in and out of the theatre. The MPAA and their bought off cronies are not the only game in town anymore.

The effect on the movie industry is huge and believe me the country that has the most people in the world, will be doing this for more than just to see home grown movies. Even if that is all that was, that will have an enormous impact on movie studios. Enormous amount of lost revenue.

Thats for the reminder of CVD. So that is SVCD and CVD. That is just the start.

[Duchess]

1. I know that I just loaded a firmware upgrade on my Liteon LVD-2001 player yesterday. Why would firmware upgrades be out of the question ?

They wouldn't but how much of the populace of Europe & the USA would even know how to do this, and how many would even dare to do it? I suspect that of the millions of DVD players sold only a few thousand would get upgraded. As for computers you said:

3. More and more PCs are diving multimedia systems, the hottest things going are the shuttle type small boxes so this can be done. If you are launching a movie from you PC, the format will be irrelevant.

Yet again it's a matter of scale. What precentage of the population watches films on PC's. Precious few I think you'll find, the vast majority of the unwashed masses use a DVD player and a television.

4. SVCD is not a one nation standard and China developed that.

Fine, but again if you stop the average person in the street and ask them if they use SVCD's or VCD's all you will get is a blank stare. I'm sorry but these standards were never mainstream and only used by the hobbyist like most of those people on this forum.

5. Do you know the population of China ?

No, but I can find out if you really want to know. I do remember references in the past that made such comments as it being greater than the USA and Europe combined.

6. Did you think you would see the day when legal download sales would over take purchases via CD media. It just happened

Not in Europe it hasn't, we can't even buy tracks from iTunes etc. as they won't sell to us so the only legitimate route for us is to still buy CD's and as our prices tend to be considerably more than prices in the USA we are still being ripped off. Is it a surprise that piracy in Euro land is rife!

7. I am happy to say that I believe Duchess that in my opinion you are overstating the power of the MPAA.

I'm not only talkinjg about the MPAA, after all there is whole world out there and not just the USA. The MPAA has no jurisdiction in Europe where I live nut other organisations do hold sway.

Anyway disregarding such organisations as the MPAA etc. I was talking purely from the standpoint of the man and woman in the street who are always reluctant to adopt new technology. OK there are the enthusiasts like thee and me but we are a tiny minority. Most people wouldn't go out and buy a new DVD player unless there was a major reason for doing so, like their existing one blew up or (more relevent to this discussion) the prices of the DVD's were halved.

Unfortunately because of the ignorance of the masses there is considerable inertia that only slowly gets deflected into new and innovative directions.

[SatStorm]

How I see it:

The majority outside USA buys Chinese products today one way or other, 'cause there are really cheap.

The best DVD standalones now, came from china. They cost less than 90 Euros, and they are by default Region Free, Macrovision Free and flexible to play any X type of discs. Don't mention that most new models don't even need authoring! You burn a DVD as DVD with your mpeg and you can watch them to TV same way you navigate and listen mp3s.

What I see: Hybrid chinesse standalones, capable to play both DVD and those EVDs (I already love the name, reminds me CVD in a way!) without issues, with really really low prices.
So, if the cost is about 90 euros, I see many DVD standalone replacements pretty soon!

VCD and SVCD are not known to the average person, that is true. But is well known to the average owner of a DVD player. That is what counts!

And china has a population almost 1 / 3 of this planet, plus "controls" great parts of the Asian, African and European (Eastern most...) areas. China and India together are almost half this planet!

[Duchess]

VCD and SVCD are not known to the average person, that is true. But is well known to the average owner of a DVD player. That is what counts!

May I disagree? I walked around my office and of those who own DVD players (15) only one knew what a VCD or SVCD was. I also asked if they would be willing to replace their DVD players if a new format came out (provided the replacement was compatible with DVD's) and I got one 'Yes' and two maybe's. OK that's only a small survey but if you consider that I work for a semiconductor manufacturer, then most of the people here are going to be more aware of technolgy than most other places, then the facts are significant

[SatStorm]

Sorry, I didn't express it well, you are right....

Anyone involved with PCs and technology knows about VCDs etc. Also the technology magazines and expecially those about PCs all the time talking about VCDs, backups, Divx etc.
So VCD is very well known to the so called "active costumers" which are not simply mainstream consumers.

Yes, if I ask my father, just bought his first VCR (!) he don't care about it. But just ask the typical PC user... Or the typical teenager....
For them VCDs are at least known!

[Duchess]

I think you're missing the point. Yes as you say:

Anyone involved with PCs and technology knows about VCDs etc.

However, the vast majority of people who buy DVD's are NOT involved with PC's and technology. How often do you hear the joke about a parent getting his/her child to show them how to use the VTR? The biggest part of the recorded film market is to Joe/Jane public who know little of standards, all they know is that it's a machine that you put a silver disc into and it either plays music or shows them a film. They don't want to know any more than this as it's irrelevent to them, and the likes of you and I are a very small percentage of the market

[SatStorm]

We are the future you know, not them.

The average joe gonna be an ancient thing for Europe soon. We are the last generation of the average Joe as you determine them. Those technologies presented today, ain't for us, there are small brothers. For us, DVD is the most we can get!

[Gazorgan]

Since most DVD Players are manufactured in and/or about China, it will be a 'natural' thing to include EVD support. Just like I have VCD/SVCD/VCD support in my player. Then once the players already support it, the remaining manufacturers will have to support it or miss out on sales (who wants a player that only plays 1 of 9 formats with most of the other players play 9/9 ?).

It's simple market pressure economics. Unfortuantely Blue Ray may kill it.

[jolo]

SatStorm,

By George, I Think you got it !!
I am so glad thatr you put the population of China, combined with India in your posts.
From someone living in the U.S., where eleven percent of the citizens cannot even point out where the U.S. is on the globe and over 85% cannot point out Iraq on the globe, yet we occupied it with England.

The population (and I am glad you added India), cannot be understated. The importance to our economy cannot be understated.

Defining what is tomorrow by today I think cannot be done.

Gazorgan,

You remarks are excellent and make the point about the obvious economics of it. No one has to know the name, how to spell it, but they will know that, this on is cheaper. When I send out some pictures to my family, I do it on VCD because it is small, I put it on a CD and I know it can be played on their DVD players. They don't care or know that it is in VCD, but it works. That they I know. I know that I saved a bunch of money of media and that I can fit my videos on 1 CD.

Speaking of India especially, with China, they will know and and yes, the DVD players will can easily have the new formats added.

I find Asian and European much more "hip" to formats because I know so many who have come here to do contracting and really know what they are doing so that they can watch video because they are forced to learn about due to the region code, PAL, NTSC fiasco, another MPAA gift to us.

I meet a lot of people who get send back and forth on assignnents as part of their job. As far as some of my Indian friends, they know the DVD players where firmware can be entered and also the ones that can be cracked open and altered. One of my Indian friends too a commercial DVD player, and added a 120GB disk drive to it. Coolest thing. The big motivator is economics.

This is a fun discussion. Thank you all.

I don't think we can define the "average" Joe anymore.

[petesimon]

Yeah! Another Chinese designed video disc for all geeks. Basicly, it's a super DVD without the worldwide standard...like an Extended CVD or an Extended SVCD but written to a multi-gigabyte capacity optical disc.

I still like VCD and SVCD! I really love Chinese food! So I will probably like the EVD too.

Go China...whoop whooop!

[RabidDog]

For example paying of the prositiutes at Junior Achievement (719-540-8000), for $100,000

It is excellent that junior schools are coming up with a more Child-friendly curriculum, I for one would have been a more regular attender.

BTW ..what do they need the extra capacity for?

[indolikaa]

Yeah! Another Chinese designed video disc for all geeks. Basicly, it's a super DVD without the worldwide standard...like an Extended CVD or an Extended SVCD but written to a multi-gigabyte capacity optical disc.

I still like VCD and SVCD! I really love Chinese food! So I will probably like the EVD too.

Go China...whoop whooop!

Ditto.

[ROBERT BLACK]

I wish the U.S. government would enforce its anti-trust and fair use laws to allow the market place to work.

A fat chance of that happening. I'm all for EVD if it can find a niche outside of China. Doubtful. I can't see the Hollywood studios supporting it. Or the U.S government(MPAA) not try and suppress it, with all options at they're disposal.

[vitualis]

It is extremely doubtful that EVD will have a major impact in the Western world as like it or not, the majority of the content we consume is produced by the major film industry -- which I can be almost certain will not play ball with EVD backers.

However, China and the associated South East Asian area (i.e., where VCD is very popular and continues to be and where SVCD and CVD actually has a market) is a VERY populace. EVD doesn't have to be successful outside of the region to become a commercial success -- and there is a LOT of local content produced in the area. As an example, "Bollywood" (i.e., in India) produces more films per year than Hollywood.

EVD is ALREADY out in China and being sold at a very reasonable price -- which figures as "physically" it is using existing technology. It is the encoding algorithms which have been "upgraded".

It would probably be relatively trivial for Chinese manufacturers to include EVD support in future players as well (be they Blu-Ray or HD-DVD) -- so EVD capable players will probably infiltrate the Western market by stealth. What I envisage EVD might become is the "next" VCD/SVCD (in the days when DVD authoring was a dream) -- i.e., a way for us video enthusiasts and hobbyist to put high quality video content CHEAPLY onto an optical disc in a standardised and compatible format (vs. HD-DVD/Blu-Ray).

Best regards.

[Will Hay]

Ladies and Gentlemen, the EVD

That link isn't working for me
Will

[Viper10000]

Here's my 2 cents,

IMHO, here are some reasons that China have no problem goes with their new own standard the EVD:

1. Their population (1.2+ billions)
2. The track record they have proved with SVCD
3. 70% of the DVD players worldwide is "Made in China"

So if EVD is not successful in the US or Europe, reason #1 & reason #2 is enough for them to go with it. If it's successful in either Europe or in the U.S. Great! If it's both successful. Double Great!

Since they're making 70% (could be more now) of the DVD players worldwide, it's very easy to add that new EVD codec, isn't it?. At that stage, the MPAA can't not ignore the sheer number of EVD-ready machine and the 1.2+ billions of consumer. And, this is not counting other asian nations.

Cheers,

[indolikaa]

Do you think this might be in retaliation for the DVD Forum sticking China in their own Region Code? I can't imagine the Chinese may have taken offense to that...

[MikieV]

I am not a lawyer but a U.S. citizen that believes in democracy and the free enterprise system. Should it not be illegal for the MPAA , rather than individual companies that compete in the open market place, to madate macrovision, region codes, PAL and NTSC so that competition is limited and profits are made by a few ? Isn't that against some anti-trust laws ??

Huh?

MPAA "mandates" the use of NTSC and PAL to segment the world market?? 8)

Anyway, I don't understand all the excitement. I thought EVD was mainly a way for the Chinese manufacturers to stop paying licensing fees to the DVD consortium.

What can I put on an EVD that I can't put on a DVD-R/+R??? Or is it just that the players and media will be a little cheaper??

Mike

[vitualis]

What can I put on an EVD that I can't put on a DVD-R/+R??? Or is it just that the players and media will be a little cheaper??

You can put on HD-TV (high definition TV) content on a EVD. You won't be able to do that until Blu-Ray or HD-DVD.

Regards.

[snafu099]

Well it seems like about 25/30 yrs ago this debate was rageing about the practicality of a personal computer, Who would use it except for a few geeks. It is too expensive, to hard to learn and JUST not practical. (and from my school principal brother-the unions will never allow them in the classroom)

Even today I doubt that you could claim that the "masses" of the world are computer literate. But also doubt you would argue the economic inpact throughout the world

[Trenton_Net]

My uncle has an EVD player, and yes, you can only get Chinese movies for it. The OS which runs the player is also totaly Chinese, so unless you like to watch HDTV Chinese movies and TV shows your out of luck. I suppose China wants to get away from all things "English" or "USA" so I wouldn't be supprised if they could care less if North American manufactures didn't make english disks for EVD. I would assume most Chinese don't care about English EVDs in the first place.

[SatStorm]

... as it happened before with CVD and later with SVCD....

You miss the point: It is not about support or what china wants to do. It is the fact that they offering to us in the "western world", even in a hidden form, a working alternative for our projects / our hobby. And because of their population and market share, a chinese alternative is a good one!

After all, we the cosumers lead the mark, with our actions: Just imagine: The reason standalones have Mp3 support, Divx/XviD support, or even SVCD/CVD support is not because they wanted to offer us those alternatives, but because WE choose to by products who have them.

It is like say: Who gonna buy a DVD standalone today which doesn't play DVD-Rs? But 5 years ago, finding a DVD standalone to support DVD-Rs was an advance action!

EVD offer us an alternative to use HDTV on DVD Discs today. It is like Linux for older PCs. This format boost the hardware we already have! So, the way I see it, it is just a matter of time before third party freeware & commercial software gonna appear in any language so to use this technology.

[Trenton_Net]

By the way EVDs are not stored on DVD media. They are on a new kind of blue laser format. If HDTV were to be stored on DVD Media, you'd only get like 15 to 30 minutes maximum on it. EVDs can hold much more than 9 gigs.

[SatStorm]

I didn't know that. Where you find that info?
If so, EVD needs dedicated burners and dedicated media to use.