Why Backup?

[tygrus2000]

I dont understand this obsession with backing up dvds. You realize your are spending a ton of time and resources to re-encode high quality original dvd files at 9.8 mb/s down to half that quality with DVD shrink and encoding true surround or DTS to inferior AC3 2.0 and blowing off menus and cool extras for space.

Next year we will have 9 GB general purpose DVD-R media and the studios will be using something even larger, so are you going to do it all again? When they release Hi-def DVDs in a few years and all your favs come out at full 1280x960 resolution, are you going to do it again? Original film has a resolution that few can comprehend so Hollywood is always going to have a better format waiting for you. Maybe super hi-def is around the corner with 2820x2100 resolution. I hear Sony has a proto-type holographic dvd waiting for you with 50 gb storage. You'll be backing up forever.

Lets face it, if your original version of Matrix or whatever blows up, you really expect us to believe you will break out your old DVDR on some some cheap unreliable media with half the quality, especially as the medium is moving forward at leaps and bounds. Trust me, once you have seen hi-def, you will use your backups for coasters.

Unless you can keep the source the same quality and in a format matching the current medium in use, its not a true backup and not worthwhile doing. Which leads me to sometimes think backup is code word for straight up copy and distribute. I don't think that dvdrhelp was ever meant to be a source of information for that.

Tygrus

[holistic]

I dont understand this obsession with backing up dvds.

Just making sure the blockbuster stock is safe. :P

[johns0]

They are only backups of the original dvd we own,when the next better burning device that comes out then we can backup our dvd at the exact quality,the so called obsession is to keep the original dvd in prime shape while junior gnaws on the edge of our backup and you sure are suspicious,are you with mpaa?

[jeex]

the pirates answer:

dvd-r's cost me 75 cents
i can download 3 dvdr's a day
friends let me borrow their dvd's
i like to have a big movie collection

backing up to dvd is much better than copying vhs tapes. the disc will last longer (if you dont use cheap crap media), and dvd will be around for quite some time. i know you said hollywood has a bunch of stuff lined up for us. but i dont think there will be a big "explosion" like their was with dvd.

when dvd9 blanks come around, i'll buy a buner & blanks, and download full dvd's.. its a shame it will take me twice as long to download movies.

paying $5 to rent a movie from blockbuster is too much for me ,that is why i download them & borrow them from friends..

another thing, this doesnt cost me shit. all the movies i sell pays for the blanks & my dsl.



seems like a good thing for the pirate, huh? but for the rest of us (me), we're really just protecting our $20 dvd by spending $1 on a dvd-r.

[minchjp]

we're really just protecting our $20 dvd by spending $1 on a dvd-r.

or our $150 dvd box set by spending $12 on 12 DVD-Rs

[PJGS]

"I dont understand this obsession with backing up dvds"




Children deal with DVD's the same way the deal with their cd's
My son damaged my Shrek movie so I had to get a new one. I had to buy the same DVD twice!

A DVD costs 20-25€ and a DVD-R 0.80€.
I don't mind spending an hour and 0.80€ to back up my 25€ DVD

Btw, I think that most of the extras I find on the DVD are worthless so image and audio quality aren't that much eroded when I back it up!

[ebenton]

This is like posting on a football fantasy league forum, "I don't understand this obsession with football players."
Obsessions with anything or anyone are not a good thing. However, I believe that most people who *do* back up their DVDs for whatever reason, and who post on this site, are *obsessed* with doing a good job of it, and not wasting any more time and money that necessary.
Those who don't care, or aren't "obsessed", won't post on this forum.
Personally, I back mine up so that when I travel with my laptop and/or portable DVD player, I can use my backups and not have to worry too much about them getting lost or stolen.

[housepig]

Unless you can keep the source the same quality and in a format matching the current medium in use, its not a true backup and not worthwhile doing.

"worthwhile" is completely relative.

I don't think it's "worthwhile" for suburban moms to own a vehicle capable of climbing a mountain, and use it to drive to the store for milk.

different standards for different folks...

[yautja666]

"I dont understand this obsession with backing up dvds"

There is no way in hell I'm dragging every DVD I own with me to watch on my laptop when travelling. Mpeg-4 is my best solution as I can get six movies (at good resolution) to a DVD-R and no longer sit in the hotel room thinking 'ugh, I left the *one* movie I would've watched back at home.' Futhermore, I have a ton of hobby-related DVDs that were $35-$40 or more a piece, and there is absolutely no way I am buying those all over again should they become damaged.

I think I've made some of these points before. This implied 'you are all thieves for backing up DVDs' topic is pointless and never holds water. 'Fair Use' has already been determined in a court of law.

[jarvis1781]

"I dont understand this obsession with backing up dvds"

There is no way in hell I'm dragging every DVD I own with me to watch on my laptop when travelling. Mpeg-4 is my best solution as I can get six movies (at good resolution) to a DVD-R and no longer sit in the hotel room thinking 'ugh, I left the *one* movie I would've watched back at home.' Futhermore, I have a ton of hobby-related DVDs that were $35-$40 or more a piece, and there is absolutely no way I am buying those all over again should they become damaged.

I think I've made some of these points before. This implied 'you are all thieves for backing up DVDs' topic is pointless and never holds water. 'Fair Use' has already been determined in a court of law.

I agree with everything you said up until the "Fair Use" part...because the DMCA was also determined in a court of law and it is illegal to bypass CSS encryption.

[haloblack]

I agree with everything you said up until the "Fair Use" part...because the DMCA was also determined in a court of law and it is illegal to bypass CSS encryption.

I don't agree - and I'm just just saying that to be argumentative. I think that - according to the way the law's written - it is legal to circumvent CSS as long as the reason you're doing it fits within the parameters of fair use.* And if it's not, then it should be. I haven't 'backed up' a single dvd yet, but I plan to (eventually) do so for every one of my out-of-print Criterion DVDs. If it's legal, great. If it's not, then call it an act of civil disobedience - because I'm not spending $1000 and the next two years scouring EBay to replace my rarities just because my theoretical dog got loose and theoretically chewed up my discs. I'm not saying that 99% of the people here aren't lying about their backups (or the mysteriously DivX'ed VBR "home movies" that a "friend" gave to them), but if the DMCA runs counter to the Fair Use rulings, then to hell with it. And Jack Valenti can quote me on that. Fair Use is me watching one copy of my paid for movie - at any time and in any place that I wish! Anything that infringes on that single right is - in my mind - null and void.

Damn. I got all ranty there, didn't I.

Aah, bite me, Valenti.

-hb


* keep in mind that I did no research to back this opinion up. It's just what I think is (and if not, what should be) legal.

[housepig]

I think that - according to the way the law's written - it is legal to circumvent CSS as long as the reason you're doing it fits within the parameters of fair use.*

the problem with that argument is the "Fair Use" doesn't apply - if you actually look at the law on Fair Use, which granted is vague and ill-defined, the act of backing up your discs is not covered under fair use - only excerpts for various reasons (criticism, parody, educational use, etc.).

the idea that you're allowed to make one backup, as far as I can tell, emanated from software licenses allowing you to make a backup copy, and not from any kind of U.S. case law...

[Savant]

I think the percentage of people who 'back up' DVDs for personal use is but a fraction of the total of those who copy DVDs.

The same argument could be said about 'slim jims'. Sure you could buy one to keep in case you lock your keys in your car, but most people use them to steal cars.

Anyway, I think governments will crack down more and more on illegal copying. (reference) People have no respect for copyright laws, and that is scary. With no copyright laws there would be no innovation or invention, and many things we take for granted would never have been made.

Intellectual property laws are a necessity if we want to encourage new innovations. Otherwise, why bother? Why bother creating something if people can just copy your work without compensating you for it?

Everyone seems concerned about the 'rights' of people who purchase an item and not the rights of the person/entity that created it.

Where are their 'rights'?

Regards,

Savant

[tygrus2000]

Interesting arguments, I just wonder why it only applys to DVDS?

I've never heard of anyone backing up their VHS collection or their cassette tapes or their LPs or their rare playboy mags. If your collection gets destroyed, wont your home insurance pay for it to be replaced with brand new stock?

[terrya64]

I don't backup. I copy..

[lordsmurf]

Sorry, Savant, I don't buy any that. The real crooks here are the corporations (ie "labels") that "own" the pieces, and routinely screw the "creators" of the content. I've known several musicians that get $1 per album that sold for $15-20 in stores. Where's the "justice" and "protection" in that? Who's screwing who here? And all those MPAA ads are crap too. If the $5 per hour janitor needs more money, take away some from the $20 billion Tom Cruise paychecks or the multi-million dollar CEO bonuses.

I'm not agreeing with pirates, but I'm going to pick on everybody. The whole damned system is flawed. The pirates are often people that cannot afford the art anyway? So in that situation, what good was it? What was lost? And if they still don't buy anything, where would you look next? If the piracy aspect did not exist, do you honestly think it would be perfect? No, not at all. They'd be whining about some other monetary imperfection.

I backup because I tend to drop things, and optical media tends to scratch easy.

I have the right to protect my investment. Big companies like Sony sure whine a lot, especially when they make so many CD-DVD media and recordable drives. Oh, boo hoo. They're getting money either way.

Oral sex is illegal in a lot of places too, for both male and female, both for giving and receiving. I've gladly broken noth sides of this law many times with several girlfriends. I'm not feeling bad about that one either. I have no regrets about backing up. People sure get uptight, as if we were a communist or dictatorial state with DVD police that randomly serached our homes. In the words of Charlie Brown: "Good grief!"

And I did backup some RARE VHS tapes. In fact, I often backed them up 2-3 times and stored some offsite. I have backups of LPs and cassettes too, transferred to optical media, then backed up a few more times... often because they are rare, old or the original (as I said about DVD backups) is easy to break or be lost.

[housepig]

I've never heard of anyone backing up their VHS collection or their cassette tapes or their LPs or their rare playboy mags.

you must not get out much.

I'm in the process of backing up most of my VHS collection to dvd - at least the stuff that's not out on dvd already. I've also made safety backups in the past on VHS, especially of stuff I tend to play a lot, or stuff that's irreplaceable (like camcorder footage of my old band, etc.)

same with cassettes and lp's, stuff that would be hard or expensive to replace had a backup copy. playboy mags would be a little tougher, as you'd need access to a color copier, which can get expensive - for the price of color copying most of the Playboy's in my collection, I could find another copy for sale.

the reason you hear more about dvds and cds is that since it's already digital, it's much easier and faster to make a backup, compared to running your record player into your computer and making a copy...

[LanEvo7]

Lets face it, if your original version of Matrix or whatever blows up, you really expect us to believe you will break out your old DVDR on some some cheap unreliable media with half the quality, especially as the medium is moving forward at leaps and bounds. Trust me, once you have seen hi-def, you will use your backups for coasters.

Thats why you don't watch the original. You watch the backup. If that thing sratches, breaks, melts, etc, you break out your original then and make another backup. The original is supposed to be kept in a safe location.

You can use two discs if you don't want to "lose quality", but most people can't tell anyway. Yea, there are those out there that say, "OMG, i just saw one of the pixels in Neo's hair break for less than one second."

[Ejoc]

Extreme example, but:

Take every DVD you own and throw them away. Goto the store and replace them.

Take Every DVD you own and back it up to a $1 DVD-R, throw all the back-ups away.

Look at the cost difference:

lets say 50 DVDs at $15 each = $750
vs 50DVD-Rs at $1 each = $50

it doesnt take too many DVD replacements to make backingup DVDs worth it.

[tygrus2000]

I have to agree with Savant, as much as I think corporations are evil too.

If I see a member who has been here a long time with varied interests in video etc etc then asks about how to backup a certain dvd, I beleive he or she is really doing that. When I see a newbie come on here who registered yesterday and they first question is "Help me back up Hulk" I have a feeling they are making a few dozen back-ups for their friends. Its that kind of thing that threatens this awesome sight. Dvdrhelp is well known now - they often reference this site on TechTV.

Housepig, I am curious as to why you would use a VHS source to make a digital copy? Wouldnt it be easier to go rent or borrow the dvd and make your backup from that? I am certainly not advocating that, but you are a legal owner of one copy already and you would get a pristine digital version, then if any body comes snooping you can claim you did the most awesome analog to digital conversion in the history of mankind.

[lordsmurf]

Housepig, I am curious as to why you would use a VHS source to make a digital copy? Wouldnt it be easier to go rent or borrow the dvd and make your backup from that? I am certainly not advocating that, but you are a legal owner of one copy already and you would get a pristine digital version, then if any body comes snooping you can claim you did the most awesome analog to digital conversion in the history of mankind.

You're missing the point. What he and I have are not available anymore, and were never digital. In fact, much of my stuff was never available on VHS, but Beta and 16mm and other sources.

[808smokey]

Blah, blah, blah...

This has absolutely nothing with "DVD to DVDR" as the forum title states. This should go in "pointless bitching".

An Admin should have moved this post

[Savant]

Sorry, Savant, I don't buy any that. The real crooks here are the corporations (ie "labels") that "own" the pieces, and routinely screw the "creators" of the content. I've known several musicians that get $1 per album that sold for $15-20 in stores. Where's the "justice" and "protection" in that?

Hmmm, so because people feel the musicians are not getting enough of the cost from a CD, instead of buying it and giving the musician that $1, a person steals it and gives the musician nothing. I'm sorry, but I don't see how that gets a musician any more money than they did before.

There is such a thing as supply and demand. If something is too expensive people DON'T buy it. If that happens the demand and price go down. If the demand is high the price can rise.

The "I can't afford it" argument is bogus though, no one should be able to justify stealing because they couldn't afford it or we would have anarchy in society.

Regards,

Savant

[Gazorgan]

Anyone that has kids knows why they backup DVDs. I'm tired of coughing up $22.95 because my youngest dropped the DVD and kicked it across the cement floor....

[Savant]

Gazorgan, I agree with your reasoning in principle, but let's use a different example. If your child took a toy or or other object and destroyed it, what would happen? Can you make a 'backup' of hot wheels car that gets flushed? Of course not.

That's where teaching a child to be responsible comes in. Now I am in NO way questioning your parenting skills, I'm just saying that there are many things in your home that can be broken by the kids that you can't "back up"...

How do you deal with that?

Regards,

Savant

[bugster]

Gazorgan, I agree with your reasoning in principle, but let's use a different example. If your child took a toy or or other object and destroyed it, what would happen? Can you make a 'backup' of hot wheels car that gets flushed? Of course not.

That's where teaching a child to be responsible comes in. Now I am in NO way questioning your parenting skills, I'm just saying that there are many things in your home that can be broken by the kids that you can't "back up"...

How do you deal with that?

Regards,

Savant

You CAN backup a DVD. You CAN NOT backup a hot wheels car. If you COULD backup a hot wheels car for a fraction of the price of the original (minus packaging etc), there would be those that would do it.

[tompika]

I'm just saying that there are many things in your home that can be broken by the kids that you can't "back up"...

At least I try to back up as many "things" as I can...
I have a three year old son.

[SLICK RICK]

Savant wrote:
I'm just saying that there are many things in your home that can be broken by the kids that you can't "back up"...

At least I try to back up as many "things" as I can...
I have a three year old son.

I have a 2 year old daughter, If it wasnt for my backup copy of Nemo (and many others) being used, she would have probably destroyed the original by now. I swear, we must have watched Nemo about 15 times literally, since I bought it 2 weeks ago.

SLICK RICK

[housepig]

Housepig, I am curious as to why you would use a VHS source to make a digital copy? Wouldnt it be easier to go rent or borrow the dvd and make your backup from that?

sure... show me where I can get the following on dvd and I'll just buy them, the hell with converting them:

- Tales From The Crypt (1972)
- Vault of Horror (1973)
- He Who Gets Slapped (1924)
- West of Zanzibar (1927)
- Let's Scare Jessica to Death
- The Little Girl Who Lives Down The Lane
- Rorschach - live in D.C. 12/92
- Neurosis - live in D.C. 9/93
- Deceased - 8 Gore Promos
- Beastie Boys - Skills to Pay The Bills
- Gymkata
- Hammer : The Studio That Dripped Blood

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. .....

[Gazorgan]

I backup the DVD's because they are so fragile. It's a simple matter to make a polycarbonate tough enough to play hockey with. But, alas, that's self defeating. The MPAA want's the DVD's soft and scratchable so you have to replace them. ESPECIALLY childrends DVD's.

Detroit can (and does in a few cases) make a car that will last 20 years and be rust free. Do they? No again it's self defeating, they want you to replace your car every 5 years, and want that vehicle dead in 7-10 years.