3 hours on DVD

[Aceventura]

I make use of Showbiz (I also have Pinnacle Studio 8 installed), and would really like to put 3 hours of captured video onto one DVD. In neither program can I reduce the bit rate to below 3000 and therefore only manage to get about 2 hours on one dvd. The only way I have come close to 3 hours is to make the audio mpg.
I also have a problem synchronising the audio with the video when I create the disk. The captured video (in mpg) is fine.

[indolikaa]

Rob,

Is this project for NTSC or PAL? If it is NTSC your disc is likely to have problems. 48kHz PCM and AC-3 are the only "legal" audio streams for DVD in the NTSC world. MPEG Layer-II is a "legal" audio stream only in the PAL world.

According to this forum's basic bitrate calculator, a 3-hour video file with a compressed audio stream at 224kbps will allow a bitrate of 3159. I would think MP2 would allow even a little higher video bitrate as well. The total video time is critical here - an extra ten minutes will push you below the 3000 limit. Keep in mind that this is pushing the absolute limit of the DVD disc's recording surface, and some discs don't do well that close to the edge.

This 3000 limitation maybe one of those quirks that keeps users well within the "legal" DVD specifications. My copy of DVDit has even more severe restrictions with bitrate. I moved to TMPGEnc for this reason.

.indolikaa.

[overloaded_ide]

Of course you know quality may suffer from a little to alot in pushing more time.

That said, I have had excellent results making DVD9s and then shrinking them with DVD Shrink!

I use Tmpgenc DVD author to author my disks. Forget file size! I'll go up to 8gigs. The program will give a warning because of over sized DVD, ingnore it. I now have a DVD9 authored to my hard drive, shrink that with DVD shrink. I now have a DVD5
Open tmpgenc dvd again and burn to DVD -r.

Simple as that! If your program will let you author an over sized disk like this, then if you can't do it right the first time this works very well!

It's better to do it right the first time of course, but this methode has saved my butt a couple times when I recorded tapes that were longer than they were claimed to be. Of course longer tapes meant larger files!'
And I rarely want to capture a second time for the same tape, unless I absolutely have too!

Also I think I have gotten better results several times this way than I would have gotten by just lowering the bit rates captured.

[awhitney]

I can't wait til dual layer dvds hit the market, then we won't have this problem to a certain extent, lol :P

[Aceventura]

Thanx for all the good advice, I will definetly give it a try once I have d/l the required s/w.
Concerning the format, I am interested in PAL, so I guess the mpg audio will be ok?
As mentioned, my other issue is the synch problem (which is fine after the capture?!) and only becomes evident once the final authored project is rendered / created on DVD.

[indolikaa]

MP2 should not be a problem so long as the audio is 48kHz.

I don't have much advice to lend in regards to the sync issues. I do all my own NTSC work but when it comes to PAL, I have a friend who steps in and handles those requests.

Syncs fine on capture but not on encoding? Download TMPGEnc and try a short clip and see what happens. Could be the software...

[smearbrick1]

I put over 3 hours of video on several of my DVD-R's. I do this with dvd shrink and TMPGENC DVD Author. I dvd shrink the disc (basically rip it, movie only... maybe with menus/whatever) then I load the two movies into dvd author and let it do it's thing (creating menus so I can select the different movies of course). I then take the final product and run it through DVD shrink again. I have never had one problem with this. They play fine on Pioneer DV-434. Some of these discs may be almost 4 hours in length.

[karifsmith]

Any chance you'd be willing to use Half D1? That way you could encode at a higher rate and still fit all 3 hours on the disc.

[Gazorgan]

I regularly fit 4 hours onto a DVD with 1/2 D1 resolution and ac3 sound. It's SVCD quailty and on a 25" TV it looks fine.

[noki]

smearbrick1
using your technique how does the output look on a set-top, as compared to maybe the origianl or just the original shrunken version by itself?
also i have had problems putting DVDAuthor's output back into Shrink...it would not accept the files. i forget what Shrink's error message was. thanks.

[smearbrick1]

The output looks great. I mean, how much can the human eye really see. Especially on CRT television. On HD you may have some issues with quality, but I have a trinitron and it looks great.

[noki]

smearbrick1
thanks for your reply.
question: do you run TDA's output thru Shrink again because of the filesize? noticed you run Shrink on the movies before TDA (do you apply any compression this first time, or just rip audio/extras out)...that is why i'm asking. also because Shrink has issues with TDA's output when i tried doing this . thanks again.

[Aceventura]

Any chance you'd be willing to use Half D1?

As a bit of a newbie, can you enlighten me about Half D1?

[johns0]

half d1 is 352x480/576 48khz audio

[Aceventura]

Thanx again for all the advice.
I take it that I can make use of any authoring program and then use DVD Shrink on the result and then use the authoring program again to burn the DVD?
I will also look into the 1/2 D1 as well.

[spectroelectro]

Half D1 with a low bitrate (ca. 3000) or SVCD with a low bitrate are probably the only ways you'll get close to 3 hours on a watchable DVD,
and you must use Dolby AC3 (as mentioned an MP2-only soundtrack is
not part of the DVD spec and may not playon some DVD players).
Be aware that in trying to get more than about 100 to 120 minutes on
a single-layer DVD you're pushing well outside the normal range of
the DVD spec. Some pro DVD authoring tools won't even let you author
a DVD that long. For example, DVD Maestro will balk and give you an
error message about TIME EXCEEDS MAXIMUM or something to that
effect if you try to author a 3-hour-long DVD. Other DVD authoring
apps may or may not give you a problem -- DVDLab doesn't seem to
have trouble with extremely long DVDs, your mileage may vary.
For maximum playback compatibility your single-layer DVD recording
time should really not exceed an hour by very much. So bear in mind
that while you can probably squeeze 3 hours of video onto a single-layer
DVD-R, you are likely to get spotty playback. Some DVD players will
play such a disc, others won't. This could matter if your DVD player
dies on you and you pick up a new brand that doesn't like your
3-hour-long oddball DVDs.

[overloaded_ide]

also i have had problems putting DVDAuthor's output back into Shrink...it would not accept the files. i forget what Shrink's error message was.

You should NOT have a problem with that. As I often mention my Titanic experement I did just for kicks and find out limits of programs.

Tmpgenc dvd author will let you create up to about a 9 gig dvd. You get a warning after the DVD5 limit, ignor and continue, all goes well.

Then shrink with shrink to fit a DVD5.

In my Titaninc venture I wanted the best disks possable, and some fun. So I captured both tapes at 8,000bps and authored 2 over sized DVDs. Shrunk each to fit a DVDr and burned those as a two disk set, same as the 2 tape set. But then I opened both shrunk DVDs and created yet another oversized DVD! I shrunk that also with Shrink. The result was a very good one disk copy of the 2 tape Titanic collecter set.

I captured, authored, shrunk, re-authored, and shrunk again, never a problem. Though I did discover 2 things! One if your DVD will be over 9 gigs and you ignore the warnings it WILL crash when it hits 9 gigs! First time I tried making the one disk it would have been 12gigs, worked fine till about 9gigs, then crashed!
Also learned if you run out of disk space you will get an error and crash!
That is expected of course, but the error was something like unknown error and did not state out of disk space.
I found that one out because durring Titanic I actually used up about 60 gigs or more real fast.

If you get an error there is some reason for it, not just the program doesn't want to do the files.

[noki]

overloaded_ide

thanks for your reply...quite an experiment you preformed! the last time i tried TDA's output in Shrink it was with 2 pre-shrunken movies but the overall size was a tad large; which was why i needed to get it back into shrink. i forget whether the resolution (4:3, 16:9) of the movies were the same (if that makes a difference to Shrink). i will give it another try thanks to your inspiration!!

[Aceventura]

Just for those that use Showbiz - it does not let you author more than the set limit of 4.7G. I will be trying Studio tonight, in the mean time I have d/l tmpgenc DVD Author to give it a try. From all the posts here it would appear to be the best to use?