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  1. Hi,

    I saw this in the news http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/33733.html
    and the natural question seems to be if current DVD burners will be able to support this new format? Any ideas?
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  2. Greetings Supreme2k's Avatar
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    They may support the new media, but at 4.7G

    Similar to my old 8X CDRW. It will burn on 52X media, but only at a top speed of 8X.
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    I doubt that the current drives will even support the media. Two different layers will require a completely different burn strategy (probably using two write lasers?).
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  4. If that is the case guys, then it sucks...do you think DVD -R will have an answer to this new format? Could it be that the manufactures will come up with the firmware update to support it, although if the burn strategy is different then the firmware update will not do...
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  5. By the way...I hear something about HD DVDs coming within a year...What are those? High Definition DVDs? What is that all about?
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  6. I think that there will not be enough Laser power with existing drives. You have to be able to write through a spacer to another Layer.

    RG
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  7. That would suck if older burners don't support it. that would mean that all our burner are useless after they release dual layer burners...bummer
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  8. That would suck big time. Good external burners cost around $300 now...I hear that DVD -R will have an answer soon with the same technology, but
    I don't see anything official on the current burner support...but it sure looks like the current ones will not support it.
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    Originally Posted by Shtirlits
    If that is the case guys, then it sucks...do you think DVD -R will have an answer to this new format? Could it be that the manufactures will come up with the firmware update to support it, although if the burn strategy is different then the firmware update will not do...
    If you think about, it really doesn't suck. In my closet, I have a 24X CD writer that I can't GIVE away. The technology competition is so fierce that not only will they eventually have burners that can burn on the new 8 gig discs, but they eventually WILL be affordable. Think about it. What's the use of coming up with the technology if the average consumer can't afford to BUY it? That's the whole point. The MAIN market base is the AVERAGE COMSUMER! That's where the MOST amount of money is. If MORE people can afford it, then the more money the production companies will make. That's why you can buy a dual format DVD burner for $100.00 now, when only 1 year ago, they were $400.00. That's what's so beautiful about it all! Within 2 years from TODAY, 95% of the people on this very board will be comparing their 8 gig burners to see which ones are the best for the price, and by THEN, the average price of them will be between $120.00 and $300.00, just like the 4X 4.7 gig burners are now. By then, the 4.7 gig burners will be in all our closets! Don't worry ladies and gentleman, our time WILL come to be burning entire movies on one disc WITHOUT having to compress them first! PERFECT QUALITY COPIES WILL FINALLY BE ATTAINABLE WITHOUT HAVING TO DO ANYTHING EXTRA! Only thing is that we all gotta support guys like the DVD Shrink crew that have blessed us with such a wicked program. We'll still need programs that can rip DVD's (for backup purposes of course), but from the NEW burners. So I'm assuming they'll have to come up with a new program that can decode and remove all the necessary hinderences, but be able to do it on the new 8 gig drives.
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  10. Thats cool that it would be cheap for a 8gig burner(which I would end up picking one up) but I just got my pioneer 106D 1 week ago. So say they do come out with them by mid next year then I just pissed away my money on my burner to sit in my closet. Think about it when they do release dual layer burners and there dvd media dosen't work on previous burners what is the point of owning a 4gig burner..then it goes back to what I was saying...bummer peepee in my closet :P
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  11. I am X
    You make very good points except I think the part about ripping. Unless they change comercail disks it will be the same thing as now, except they fit!
    The burner and the media to be burned onto has nothing to do with ripping. Course all the burner programs have to be updated for the larger media.

    As for tossing the current 4.7 gig drive in the closet, why??
    If it works, use it! We still will have 4.7 disks to buy, and many of the comercail and homemade DVDs will still be less than 4.7 gigs.
    Now for me I like to have most movies on their own disks unless a series!
    Now I would stick the 4 love bug movies or 6 Startreks onto fewer disks, like 2 movies on one 8.5 gig disk.

    But if only one movie, it goes on it's own disk.
    And just think how cheap those disks should get too
    overloaded_ide

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  12. My main concern is: will dvd PLAYERS read these discs?

    If we think compatibility with certain media / drives is bad with 4.7 gb dvd-rs NOW, what about these dual layers
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  13. to all
    dvd9rs that are burnt with the soon to be released dual-layer units WILL be playable on all existing dvd-rom, burners, and settops. why wouldn't they...what do you think you're buying from the shops and renting from blockbuster and netflix they are pressed i know, not burnt. but your dvdrs are burnt...don't they play on your systems just like the pressed dvd5s from hollywood, right! follow my logic?
    and why would you want to burn dvd9 blanks in your dvd5 burners only to possibly burn one layer of it, if even that oh i see, you want to burn 8.5Gs with a 4.7G burner
    tell me something...why would manufacturers produce dual-layer burners if existing single-layer burners can burn both layers of dual-layer media
    did i read this topic incorrectly think i'll go get a drink....
    BTW think about this...once the DL burners come out and the vendors gear up to make 8.5g medias what do you think will happen to the price of the old SL media? can anyone spell CHEAP! they will not abandon the existing customer base for SL media anytime soon. i just bought a pak of 10 VHS tapes a month ago remember those
    so you guys crying about making a big mistake buying that SL burner...chill we will only benefit from the new technology.
    think about what it is going to cost you to backup that dvd9 of yours during the first year from the time DL burners hit the street. i'm not even talking about the cost of the unit itself.
    let's see...$5 for a blank dvdr9 and have your backup on 1 disc, or the same video quality spread across 2 dvd5s for less than $1 (cost of dvd5 blanks will probably be that cheap then). Hmmmmmm
    but you might say "...i don't want to to have 2 discs for each movie...takes up to much room...don't have the space for it". well dvd10s will be about $1 then too.
    or you might say "...but i will still have to get off my ass to change discs (sides)...". well, that's the last straw...gotta have that DL burner
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  14. In this thread posted it shows a picture of what "appears to be" a HP 400 DVD burner with this babelfish translation:

    It comes from this Japanese report from Ceatec or to be more exact this picture with the caption "Drive for the PC of the Philips make which corresponds to 2 layer record" (Babelfish translation).

    http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/av/docs/20031007/ceat3_04.jpg

    the entire thread i got it from:

    http://www.cdrlabs.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13359

    Also on HD movies, I heard Microsoft is submitting a compression method called WM9 to some authoritative body to use for HD movies and will fit on present day DVDs. there's even some movies out that play on a PC, terminator II, I believe is one of them. You can download a trailer here. i think you need a 2.4 gig CPU.

    http://www.theperfectvision.com/newsletter/tpv50/hidef_pc.html
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  15. Well for one I would like a dual layer burner but if my 4gig burner can burn 8gigs in two session like muti-session on cds then I could still try to fit a single movie on a 8gig dvd with a 4 gig burner. I am not saying that I don't want dual layer burners I was just saying that it would suck if my 4 gig didn't support 8 gig dvds cus then I would have to spend the money to buy one when I just got a new one
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  16. current burner owners, please stop the sobbing already. read my post above.
    please, will someone explain to me what is all this "... 4 gig didn't support 8 gig dvds..." is about especially you, mixman380.
    SL burners burn SL (dvd5) discs. they will still be available. is that the concern?
    maybe i stepped into the wrong forum....
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    What bother's me is how we all seem to get done over. VHS SVHS DVD 4 GIG now we have 8 gig. We all know what it will be next BLUE LASER discs with 30 gig capacity. Then there will be a war over what type of blue laser disc jvc's or panasonic's.

    For now i wouldnt worry stick with 4 gig the disc's r cheap ( 40 pence) and you know everyone's (nearly) dvd player can play them. The suggestion that dual layered discs produced at home will mirror the dual layered ones in the shop's is silly e.g home dvds dont mirror 4 gigs in the shop now. So theres no guarentee that dvd players will support them.

    The only real gain is for those who yes use a dvd to store data (they can do that to ya know). Also i have read that to implement macrovision on a dvd even though its just a command costs money and i doubt that will stay for long so yes rippin software will need a big overall.
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  18. Originally Posted by mixman380
    Well for one I would like a dual layer burner but if my 4gig burner can burn 8gigs in two session like muti-session on cds then I could still try to fit a single movie on a 8gig dvd with a 4 gig burner. I am not saying that I don't want dual layer burners I was just saying that it would suck if my 4 gig didn't support 8 gig dvds cus then I would have to spend the money to buy one when I just got a new one
    Perhaps I didn't come out too clearly in my posts on this, but this is exactly my attitude.
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  19. Originally Posted by noki
    current burner owners, please stop the sobbing already. read my post above.
    please, will someone explain to me what is all this "... 4 gig didn't support 8 gig dvds..." is about ....
    If you're saying that current 4 gig burners will burn new dual layer 8.5 GB DVD +R discs then I think we're all happy, but as some stated the burn strategy might be different and might require a different kind of laser. How do you know that the current 4 gig burners will burn new dual layer 8.5 DVD +Rs?
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  20. You know this tread is the first time that I even thought that the current burners would work with the new dual layered media. I just assumed that we would need new burners AND new media.

    That's how it works. Any one own an intel based system? What happens with each new cpu verison? New MB, new Ram, new everything. That's just how it works.

    Anything that we buy today will be, and should be, worthless in a few years. I just dropped $700+ on a new system, next year that same system will most likely cost 1/2 that because the 64bit chips will have come down in price.

    There's really nothing to be upset about, and it doesn't 'suck'. New technologhy is going to replace old technology. It's just that 'old' in computer terms in 0.5~1.5years
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  21. Shtirlits
    please re-read my first post. part of the quote you highlighted is not mine. part of my post...
    "tell me something...why would manufacturers produce dual-layer burners if existing single-layer burners can burn both layers of dual-layer media "

    How do you know that the current 4 gig burners will burn new dual layer 8.5 DVD +Rs?
    did I say that re-read....and re-read again if needed. i said they will READ, not burn.

    UKIAMDAUKUK
    home dvds dont mirror 4 gigs in the shop now.
    what do you mean by mirror? yes they are of different composition but they both PLAY on home systems, right? so interpreting your phrase yes they do mirror original dvds...in function if home dvds don't mirror shop dvds why are we backing them up
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  22. Member SaSi's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RAAGAAman
    I think that there will not be enough Laser power with existing drives. You have to be able to write through a spacer to another Layer.

    RG
    I think that it's not a matter of laser power. -RW and +RW disks require a higher laser output to erase, so the laser can be made to produce higher power.

    I am guessing that theoretically, it is possible to modify the f/w of an existing (perhaps not all) DVD recorder to record dual layer disks.

    The question will be if recorder manufacturers will be interested in doing this. Perhaps they will be more interested in selling new drives.

    On the other hand, the DRU500A, originally sold at 2.4X for +R media, was later retrofitted with a newer f/w that allowed it to record at 4x on +R disks. And a newer model that came out, the DRU510A uses the same mechanism and it's firmware can update the 500A succesfully.

    I make a hypothesis.

    4X drives are dying a slow death. People are buying 8X drives.

    If a 4X drive could be retrofitted with an appropriate f/w that enabled dual layer recording, would you buy it?

    If you take a look at the current poll, 22% of the answers (600 by now) for christmas purchase say they will buy a DVDR!. Not everyone has one yet.
    The more I learn, the more I come to realize how little it is I know.
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  23. On a slightly different subject…is progressive play “effected” in any way or even possible with burned DVD movies? In other words, does it make any sense to use progressive scan dvd player to view a movie that was copied on dvd burner?
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  24. Shtirlits
    progressive scan has nothing to do with whether a dvd is burnt or not. it's just one of many methods your player transfer video signals to your TV set.
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  25. Originally Posted by noki
    Shtirlits
    progressive scan has nothing to do with whether a dvd is burnt or not. it's just one of many methods your player transfer video signals to your TV set.
    Got it, thanks...that is what I thought, but wasn't sure.
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  26. Will my CDR burn quatro layer Blue/Purple disk I don't think so
    Should the developers stop because the new product can't be used in the old one I don't think so

    It is called progress..the new "product" is smaller/bigger/faster/whatever and replace something that used to work (maybe still does)
    You can buy current technology, use it, and enjoy it.
    OR ...
    Wait some more and some more and some more (this is the most cost efficient) for the next technology (which is of course outdated just after you removed the shrink wrap )
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  27. Vejita-sama

    You know this tread is the first time that I even thought that the current burners would work with the new dual layered media. I just assumed that we would need new burners AND new media.
    is my english that bad please everyone, stop speed-reading the posts, esp. mine. the comprehension level is going south. verbalize if you have to
    opps, i think (s)he was being sarcastic
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  28. Another question comes to mind.
    Will the new dual layer burners be backwards compatible with the current single layer media? Or, maybe, the strategy will be to “kill” the current media and the burners? I personally think that they will be, but have an open mind to entertain a theory about “killing” the old format. Any ideas?
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  29. “kill” the current media
    i don't think so...still money to be made from sales of dvd5. after all the tools are in place to produce (rather cheaply now since manufacturers probably have recouped their R&D costs). they will milk what they can, as they should...supply and demand. hope our cost goes the way of CDR media
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  30. You know the movie industry will be P.O.ed! to be able to burn one-to-one copies with virtually NO compression and all on one disk is going to KILL thier sales.

    Next thing you know they'll be suing people like the Music industry is, or start forcing some B.S. laws down our throats to the point we're all copying in our locked basements with false doors!!


    ..........just my 10 cents.........
    MAN MADE IT..... MAN WILL BREAK IT!
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