Looking for a REAL PAL to NTSC method

[Ducky]

i meant when u have got the m2v file, there is obviously no audio on it, but the original file has audio, so how to get the sound back... coz the page give the method to encode ntsc to pal, but only video.
I spoke about demultiplexing the original file so that i have an audio file that i can multiplex with the m2v file

sorry for my poor english or the bad way im explaining...

In fact i don't understand what to do from: 15.Load the "DVD (PAL)" template into TMPGEnc. What is it?
I have an ac3 file, but it is only 28Mo, i believe it is not enough, i checked and played it w/ Powerdvd, and the file is 2 minutes while the vob file (and as a result the m2v file, is at least 15 minutes)

[dragpeace]

You mean that these should be selected in the DVD2AVI (I'm using version 1.77.3dg1.0.0RC2) Video menu, correct? That is, choose:
Video -> Color Space -> RGB 24bit
and Video -> "YUV->RGB" -> PC Scale

Yes that is correct. That seems to be the best selection when you use TMPGEnc. This is because TMPGEnc works best with RGB and seems to favor PC SCALE (0-255) source material.

In which case, I assume that I should also remove the "ConvertToRGB()" line in my .AVS file, if I understand this correctly. Is that right?

Well, I got up this morning, fired up my monitor, and found that my encode ended with a "Stream Reading Error" after getting to 99% complete. I'm not sure what went wrong, but I'm going to start from scratch and incorporate in everything that's been discussed here. I'll report back tomorrow!

If at first you don't succeed...

Graham

[dragpeace]

Well, this time it got through 50% of the encode (I'm using 2-pass VBR) and then came up with the following error:

File G:\project.dv2 can not open, or unsupported

G:\project.dv2 is my .dv2 file, obviously. I think I'm going to find AVISYNTH 2.08 and MPEG2DEC.dll (instead of AVISYNTH 2.5, which is what I have currently loaded). Perhaps that's my problem.

One other question: In TMPGenc I'm using 2-pass VBR. What i the recommendation for the maximum, average and minimum bitrate? If it helps, I'm converting from a DVD-R, so I should be able to keep the same quality. I believe that 9800 kbits/sec is the highest possible for the maximum, right? Any advice would be appreciated.

Off to find the older version of AVISYNTH and MPEG2DEC.dll.

Graham

[FOO]

I don't understand why TMPGenc reports errors opening D2V I thought you were using Avisynth. TMPGenc should have no idea there IS a D2V

[Ducky]

don't pay attention to my questions, i multiplexed the ac3 file i had from the dvdtoavi project and the m2v final file and everything's fine, the picture is a little bit jerky though, not as good as the original ntsc... is it normal?

Etienne

[FulciLives]

Well, this time it got through 50% of the encode (I'm using 2-pass VBR) and then came up with the following error:

File G:\project.dv2 can not open, or unsupported

G:\project.dv2 is my .dv2 file, obviously. I think I'm going to find AVISYNTH 2.08 and MPEG2DEC.dll (instead of AVISYNTH 2.5, which is what I have currently loaded). Perhaps that's my problem.

One other question: In TMPGenc I'm using 2-pass VBR. What i the recommendation for the maximum, average and minimum bitrate? If it helps, I'm converting from a DVD-R, so I should be able to keep the same quality. I believe that 9800 kbits/sec is the highest possible for the maximum, right? Any advice would be appreciated.

Off to find the older version of AVISYNTH and MPEG2DEC.dll.

Graham

Yes if you use RGB and PC SCALE in DVD2AVI then you can drop the ConvertToRBG() bit at the end of Xesdeeni's script. Again this method only applies when using TMPGEnc as your MPEG-2 encoder.

Also as I tried to tell you ... you should use DVD2AVI version 1.76 since other versions tend to create a D2V project file with "issues" that probably explains the errors you are having.

DVD2AVI version 1.76 is in the downloads section of the DOOM9 website along with AviSynth version 2.08 which is what I use when I use that SmoothDeinterlacer.dll script.

Good Luck

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FulciLives]

don't pay attention to my questions, i multiplexed the ac3 file i had from the dvdtoavi project and the m2v final file and everything's fine, the picture is a little bit jerky though, not as good as the original ntsc... is it normal?

Etienne

You really should start your own thread and described exactly how you converted it etc.

I have no idea what you did and it isn't nice of you to try and over take this thread.

So start your own and come back here with a link to it so I know where to look.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dragpeace]

Also as I tried to tell you ... you should use DVD2AVI version 1.76 since other versions tend to create a D2V project file with "issues" that probably explains the errors you are having.

I should have listened. I've downloaded 1.76 and am encoding again (BTW, it was actually quite difficult to find - doom9 only has the newer version, as far as I can tell, as do most other sites, although 1.77 can be found easily. I ended up finding 1.76 on a European board.).

As for my question regarding bitrates, I didn't explain myself properly (sorry for that). I meant to ask about average bit rate and advice on its setting. In my situation, I believe maximum should be set to 9800, and I've left minimum at 2000, but I have no idea what average should be set to, and I can't find much literature on it. I left it on the default of 7000.

As always, thanks Fulci!

Graham

[dragpeace]

Well, I uninstalled everything, installed DVD2AVI 1.76 (by LOLI.J), and after 50% of encoding on 2-pass VBR, I got the exact same error message:

"File G:\Project.dv2 can not open, or unsupported"

I'm using:
DVDDecrypter to rip the files
DVD2AVI 1.76 with the following settings:
- Video -> Field Operation -> None
- Video -> Color Space -> RGB 24bit
- Video -> YUV->RGB -> PC Scale
- Audio -> Track Menu -> Track 1
- Audio -> Dolby Digital -> Demux
- Audio -> Channel Format -> Auto Select
- Audio -> 48->44 KHz -> Off
- Audio -> Dolby Digital -> Dynamic Range Control -> Off

And my .AVS file is:

LoadPlugin("c:\AVISYNTHPlugins\MPEG2DEC.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\AVISYNTHPlugins\SmoothDeinterlacer. dll")
MPEG2Source("G:\Project.d2v")
SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true)
LanczosResize(720,480)
ChangeFPS(59.94)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,1,2)
Weave()

I'm using AVISYNTH 2.08. In TMPGenc I use the settings exactly as they are listed on Xesdeeni's site (for 25i fps PAL DVD to 29.97i fps NTSC DVD), except that I set maximum bitrate to 9800 (and left minimum at 2000 and average at 7000).

One other thing - DVD2AVI tells me that the DVD is PAL 25fps, but it leaves the Frame Type field blank. This is a DVD of items recorded from German tv, so I'm assuming that it is Interlaced. Also, the newer version of DVD2AVI listed it as Interlaced. Could this be an issue?

Rather frustrating. I'm going to try one more time, but I'm open to any suggestions.

Graham

[FOO]

I'd like to know what program produced that error

[dragpeace]

I'd like to know what program produced that error

TMPGenc 2.5 (2.521.58.169, to be exact!)

It goes through the first VBR pass with no apparent problems (I can see the picture and it says "Analyzing". At exactly 50% (when it begins the 2nd pass), it stops and gives that error message. All I can do is then close it down.

The thing I don't understand is that it completes one pass with no problems, obviously using the same .dv2 file. Why would it crash on the second pass? The only thing I've really been playing around with is the bitrate settings (changing the max to 9800), but I don't see how that would cause this problem. Strange.

Graham

[FOO]

What I don't understand is how TMPGenc knows
what the filename is . It's supposed to be getting
frames from Avisynth.

You ARE oening the AVS instead of the D2V in TMPGenc , right ?

There have been problems with seeking in Frameservers.
50% is exactly where TMPGenc should issue a seek to zero
request to Avisynth.

I have an experiment. Open the AVS with Vdub and scrub to the end
and then hit << to go to the start and see what you get

[dragpeace]

You ARE oening the AVS instead of the D2V in TMPGenc , right ?

I'm not the brightest guy in the world, but I am careful enough to send the right files to the right places (at least I hope I am - there's always a chance I screwed up, I suppose!). I open up TMPGenc and load in the .AVS file. I then load in the DVD (NTSC) template and basically follow Xesdeeni's instructions on his page.

The only thing I can think of is that the AVS and D2V files have the same name and are in the same directory (but with different extensions, obviously) - maybe that's an issue? I'll give it another shot with differently named files. I was extremely careful to select the right file for TMPGenc, but again, maybe the most logical answer is that I screwed up. I've been staring at this *&^* screen for far too long. If I did send it the .d2v file by mistake, wouldn't it have crashed earlier?

I understand what you are saying - TMPGenc should be getting frames from AVISYNTH, using the AVS file as the guide. AVISYNTH should be using the D2V file, right? But the .d2v file is listed in the .avs file, so maybe TMPGenc is somehow getting the info from there?

Let me try it again with differently named .d2v and .avs files (I'll even put them in different directories). I'll report back tonight or tomorrow. I'll also run your experiment, if it does it again.

If it matters, I'm using Windows XP.

Graham

[FulciLives]

Some people do have ISSUES with TMPGEnc not working for them correctly. I see it in posts all the time. Usually it has something to do with the ENVIRONMENTAL SETTINGS on that TAB called "VFAPI plug-in"

I guess I have been lucky in that I have never had such problems.

You seem to be doing everthing 100% correct EXCEPT you are setting your MAX bitrate WAY too high. It should be set no higher than 8000kbps as 9800kbps is the MAX that a DVD can handle in TOTAL BITRATE which means VIDEO BITRATE + AUDIO BITRATE so obviously if the VIDEO BITRATE hits 9800kbps then you have no room for your AUDIO. Although you can "get away" with setting the MAX bitrate above 8000kbps there are several good reasons NOT to EVER do that.

However I doubt that that would be causing your encoding errors.

As for myself I always use the WIZARD MODE in TMPGEnc. Yeah it wants to do VIDEO + AUDIO when most times you just want to do VIDEO ONLY but the easy work-around for that is to STOP the encoding once it starts ... select ES VIDEO ONLY ... then start encoding again. Saves all your WIZARD MODE settings that way.

Anyways ... do you have CCE to try instead of TMPGEnc?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dragpeace]

Anyways ... do you have CCE to try instead of TMPGEnc?

I don't have that and I'm not very familiar with it. I'm going to give TMPGenc one more try (this time with the correct bitrate setting - thanks for that info). I'll start right from scratch with the DVD and see what happens.

If that doesn't work, I'll start reading about CCE. I'm not quitting until I get this to work.

Graham

[FulciLives]

CCE BASIC is about the same price as TMPGEnc Plus and yeah it can be a bit more difficult to use but since you already understand AviSynth AVS scripting ... well ... that is most of the battle.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
You can download a DEMO of CCE BASIC which I believe is fully functional BUT it puts a big watermark on the video until you register/purchase it.

[dragpeace]

OK, I reinstalled everything and started from scratch. My PC is now 20 minutes or so into it's latest TMPGenc encode, and I have yet another question.

Everything seems to have gone well, but in the TMPGenc display, all I have is a grey box with a few dots and the very, very faintest outline of some of the video (it's almost like one of those computerized pictures, if that makes any sense). Is this normal, or should I see a better picture of the video? It does say "Analyzing" on top of the picture, as it should (and the picture changes slightly every few seconds, as it analyzes).

As there are still 16+ hours to go in the encode, I wondered if it is ok to see a grey box with very little detail, under the word "Analyzing" in TMPGenc? I was expecting actual pictures from the video.

Graham

[FOO]

Unless you know the video looks like that ....ABORT
you should see the actual video.
Open the AVS with Vdub and see if it looks right, takes zero time

[FulciLives]

What FOO said

You should always do a test clip at CBR first. With a straight CBR encode you can stop it at any time then see what was encoded. I usually let it run along enough to get at least 30 to 60 seconds ... stop it ... test it ... if all looks fine then I'll put it in 2-pass VBR mode.

It does sound as though something is amiss if you aren't seeing the picture clearly!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dragpeace]

I figured something was wrong - thanks for the confirmation. I shut it down.

OK, I'm pretty much stuck, so I'm going to give you guys the gruesome details of what I'm doing and see if you can see my error.

First, the problem - when I get to the encoding phase, all I get in TMPGenc is a grey screen with vertical black dashed lines and some small dots. The video can be barely seen buried deep in the picture. I get the exact same thing when I load the .AVS file into VirtualDub. One other piece of info - when I load the .D2V file as the Video Source in TMPGenc, I can see the picture with no problems (I don't know if that is significant or not). Therefore, I assume that my problem is the .AVS script or AVISYNTH.

I've tried this with 3 different DVD-Rs from different sources, with the exact same results. Each is supposedly a PAL 4:3 25fps Interlaced DVD-R, created from different European tv shows (I confirmed with one of the DVD-R creators that his particular DVD is, indeed, Interlaced). All play fine on my PC.

Software:
Windows XP
DVD Decrypter 3.1.7.0
DVD2AVI 1.76 (I've also tried DVD2AVI 2.5, saving as 1.76 format, with the same results)
MPEG2Dec.dll
SmoothDeinterlacer.dll
AVISYNTH 2.08
TMPGenc 2.521.58.169 (Core Version 1.98.152)

Here are the steps I've used:

1. Use DVD Decrypter to extract all of the files.

2. Use DVD2AVI:
- Load the decrypted files (i.e. File -> Open -> select the first VOB, etc.)
Here are the settings of all of the menus:

Video -> iDCT Algorithm -> 64-bit SSE2 MMX
Video -> Field Operation -> None
Video -> Color Space -> RGB 24-bit
Video -> YUV->RGB -> PC Scale
Audio -> Track Number -> Track 1
Audio -> Channel Format -> Auto Select
Audio -> Dolby Digital -> Demux
Audio -> MPEG Audio -> Demux
Audio -> 48->44.1KHz -> Off

I then select "Save Project" and give it the name "Olympiad2v" (which creates the file "Olympiad2v.D2V" and an MPEG audio file that seems to work fine). This is located on my G: drive.

3. Create a file entitled "Olympiaavs.AVS" which contains:

LoadPlugin("C:\AVISYNTHPlugins\MPEG2DEC.dll")
LoadPlugin("C:\AVISYNTHPlugins\SmoothDeinterlacer. dll")
MPEG2Source("G:\Olympiad2v.d2v")
SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true)
LanczosResize(720,480)
ChangeFPS(59.94)
SeparateFields()
SelectEvery(4,1,2)
Weave()

The two plugins are, indeed, in the C:\AVISYNTHPlugins directory.

4. Open TMPGenc and select "Olympiaavs.AVS" for Video Source (this immediately gives me the grey screen ).

* If I select the olympiad2v.d2v file for the Video Source, I see the proper picture of the video.

I also click Load and select the "DVD (NTSC)" template.
I then click Load again and select the "unlock" template in the Extra directory.
I then select "ES (Video only)".
I click on "Setting" and select:
Stream Type = MPEG-2 Video
Size = 720 x 480
Aspect Ratio = 4:3 Display
Frame Rate = 29.97 fps
Rate control mode = 2-pass VBR(VBR)
VBV buffer size = 224 KB
Video format = NTSC
Encode mode = Interlace
YUV format = 4:2:0
DC component precision = 9bits
Motion search precision = Highest quality (very slow)

However, I don't think any of this matters, because it's not getting a good video to look at.

So, that's where I am. As the .D2V file looks fine in TMPGenc, I figure the problem is something to do with AVISYNTH (but I lack the knowledge to make anything more than a guess). "avisynth.dll" is in the Windows/System32 directory, which is where it should be, as far as I can tell. It seemed to install with no problems (I just downloaded the file from the AVISYNTH page and double clicked on it to execute it). I even rebooted after installation.

Any advice at all?

Graham

[FOO]

Need new Mpegdec.dll maybe
or try commenting out smoothdeinterlacer (put # in front)

[dragpeace]

Need new Mpegdec.dll maybe

Can you recommend one?

I'll also try cutting out the SmoothDeinterlacer line, as per your advice. I'll let you know what happens. I'm willing to try anything.

Graham

[FulciLives]

Are you sure you have AviSynth version 2.08 installed?

Maybe try un-installing any and all versions of AviSynth ... reboot ... reinstall AviSynth version 2.08 ... reboot again ... then try one more time with the script.

Otherwise everything seems to be right. I don't use the 64-bit option in DVD2AVI but that can't be the problem since the D2V file can be seen by TMPGEnc direct ... just not through the AviSynth script.

Actually before you do all that un-installing re-installing garbage try this script in VirtualDub to see if you can SEE the D2V project file.

LoadPlugin("C:\AVISYNTHPlugins\MPEG2DEC.dll")  
MPEG2Source("G:\Olympiad2v.d2v")

If that doesn't work then you know it is a BASIC problem with AviSynth but if it does work then ... I don't know what to tell you? Maybe you have the wrong version of the SmoothDeinterlacer.dll file? Try downloading and using the one on Xesdeeni's website.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FOO]

Those guys are always changing that stuff.
Last problem i had was wrong versions
all the video looked like paint by numbers ( wrong quantization or
colorspace )

[dragpeace]

Are you sure you have AviSynth version 2.08 installed?

Positive!

Actually before you do all that un-installing re-installing garbage try this script in VirtualDub to see if you can SEE the D2V project file.

LoadPlugin("C:\AVISYNTHPlugins\MPEG2DEC.dll")  
MPEG2Source("G:\Olympiad2v.d2v")

If that doesn't work then you know it is a BASIC problem with AviSynth

Same problems. Therefore, it has to be a basic problem with AVISYNTH. I'm going to go through the PC with a fine toothed comb and get rid of all of the AVISYNTH code. I'll then reboot, redownload and install AVISYNTH and the .dlls.

I'll be in touch!

Graham

[FulciLives]

As FOO said it might be your MPEG2DEC.DLL file.

I think un-installing all AviSynth stuff and then doing a re-install will do the trick.

Have my fingers crossed for you

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[FOO]

You better get that working. We're all getting ulcers worying about it.

[dragpeace]

You better get that working. We're all getting ulcers worying about it.

You guys don't have to deal with my wife, who wonders why the computer is tied up for hours at a time apparently doing nothing that works!

Good news! I deleted AVISYNTH and MPEG2DEC.dll. I then rebooted, and re-downloaded and re-installed AVISYNTH 2.08. I don't know why, but on a hunch I downloaded MPEG2DEC2.dll from the AVISYNTH site (I'm using a PIV, and it said that MPEG2DEC2.dll was optimized for a PIV), and installed that. Voila! TMPGenc is now happily encoding, and I can see a nice clear picture on the screen. I stuck with the same .AVS script as above (with MPEG2DEC2.dll instead of MPEG2DEC.dll, obviously).

One slightly interesting thing - when I was encoding under my problem scenario, it was telling me that it would take 12-14 hours. With my hopefully correct setup, it's 17-19 hours. However, I'm willing to wait! It should be done sometime around mid-afternoon (US EST), at which time I will report back.

I'll hold my thanks and appreciation until it finishes!

Graham

[spiderman2k1]

Easy way use a DVD player that can play back Pal on a NTSC TV like APEX then use a capture card.

[Gazorgan]

Since this thread hasn't died, can I beg the question?

Why bother? I mean both of my sub $50 US DVDPlayers convert PAL to NTSC on the fly. They also happen to do NTSC to PAL on the fly, but not 1 in 10,000 in the US has a PAL TV ( or Demodulator/Monitor in my case).

Sometimes you have to ask: Instead of 'How do I?", ask 'Should I in the
first place?'