Looking for a REAL PAL to NTSC method

[jimcgr]

Hi guys, continuing with my little story...

I just made my dvd2avi project using the same settings as I gave above but I did what Fulci told me and changed :

Video / Color Space --> RGB
Video / YUV to RGP --> PC Scale

I made this AviSynth file:

LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC3.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\rip\laporte.d2v")
AssumeFPS(23.976)
LanczosResize(720,480)

I'm using mpeg2dec3 instead of mpeg2dec.dll because this last one is giving me this: "Avisynth open failure: Evaluate: Unrecognized exception!". I hope it isn't a problem to use mpeg2dec3.dll instead...

In TMPGEnc I followed Fulci settings again plus the recommended settings in this guide: http://dvd-hq.info/Compression.html

I've done a 30 seconds test that I burned and everything looks more than perfect on my TV! So I'm now processing the whole 40 minutes. I'll try to deal with the sound using the screenshot above right after. I'll let you know!

Thanks to all!

[FulciLives]

Hi guys, continuing with my little story...

I just made my dvd2avi project using the same settings as I gave above but I did what Fulci told me and changed :

Video / Color Space --> RGB
Video / YUV to RGP --> PC Scale

I made this AviSynth file:

LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC3.dll")
mpeg2source("D:\rip\laporte.d2v")
AssumeFPS(23.976)
LanczosResize(720,480)

I'm using mpeg2dec3 instead of mpeg2dec.dll because this last one is giving me this: "Avisynth open failure: Evaluate: Unrecognized exception!". I hope it isn't a problem to use mpeg2dec3.dll instead...

In TMPGEnc I followed Fulci settings again plus the recommended settings in this guide: http://dvd-hq.info/Compression.html

I've done a 30 seconds test that I burned and everything looks more than perfect on my TV! So I'm now processing the whole 40 minutes. I'll try to deal with the sound using the screenshot above right after. I'll let you know!

Thanks to all!

See that wasn't so hard

No problem using MPEG2DEC3.DLL vs MPEG3DEC.DLL

The MPEG2DEC3.DLL is for AviSynth 2.5x whereas the other one is for the older version. Either one works fine so if MPEG2DEC3.DLL works for you then you clearly have AviSynth 2.5x installed. However please remember that if you ever want to try Xesdeeni's other method (the one with the SmoothDeinterlacer.dll) then you will need to use AviSynth version 2.08 which uses MPEG2DEC.DLL

You shouldn't have a problem with the sound but if you run into any roadblocks there just let us know.

Just remember to set the delay value according to the filename as given by DVD2AVI ... although it is possible to have a 0 (aka ZERO) delay value in which case you don't have to do anything (as far as setting a delay value).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[jimcgr]

I did the sound part, I burned the DVD, image & sound are perfect. The sound is still 5.1 and it rocks!

I didn't put a delay in AC3Machine since I didn't export a wav file. I simply extracted the ac3 using Ac3Tool so and didn't have any value to use. I left the delay to 0 and the synch seems to be perfect. Is this delay value a must only when converting to wav using Dvd2avi ?

bye!

[FulciLives]

I did the sound part, I burned the DVD, image & sound are perfect. The sound is still 5.1 and it rocks!

I didn't put a delay in AC3Machine since I didn't export a wav file. I simply extracted the ac3 using Ac3Tool so and didn't have any value to use. I left the delay to 0 and the synch seems to be perfect. Is this delay value a must only when converting to wav using Dvd2avi ?

bye!

Use DVD2AVI in the future to DEMUX the AC-3 audio files and it will give you the delay value. You don't have to use DVD2AVI to DECODE to a WAV and you DON'T want that. You want to DEMUX which will just make it spit out the AC-3 audio (at the same time that it creates the D2V project file).

Although the delay value is often so small that it will generally not cause noticeable sync errors and not all AC-3 audio tracks have a delay value ... some are 0 (ZERO).

But still in the future use DVD2AVI to get your AC-3 audio. No need for additional steps plus it gives you the delay value embedded in the file name (as in my example screen shot though I know it is hard to read).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Glad you got it to work

[ancient]

HiGuyz

Been following your thread
My aim was to convert nstc to pal

Followed http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/
method

Have my M2V and AC3 file
Somehow managed to burn them but the lip sync was out
11 (eleven) seconds

Unfortunately 'xesdeeni' doesnt go into the converting/burning of these
2 files back to dvd

Can anyone advise which proggy will do this for me

regards and thanx in anticipation of a quick response

kennfortune@aol.om

[dragpeace]

Just out of interest, has anyone tried Easy Video Converter (http://www.videoconverter.net/) for a PAL to NTSC conversion? I did a quick search on the forums and found barely a mention of it, but it appears that this program might be an easy answer for folks who don't want to mess around with the technical issues described on this thread. I found it while just surfing the web on this topic. As I'd never heard of it before, I was just curious if anyone had tried it out.

Graham

[Cornucopia]

Just out of interest, has anyone tried Easy Video Converter (http://www.videoconverter.net/) for a PAL to NTSC conversion? I did a quick search on the forums and found barely a mention of it, but it appears that this program might be an easy answer for folks who don't want to mess around with the technical issues described on this thread. I found it while just surfing the web on this topic. As I'd never heard of it before, I was just curious if anyone had tried it out.

Graham

Just checked out the site, looks to me like it says NOTHING about being able to do PAL <-> NTSC. Just the usual AVI <-> MPEG type stuff, which VirtualDub and TMPGEnc and others can already do quite well.

Scott

[dragpeace]

Just checked out the site, looks to me like it says NOTHING about being able to do PAL <-> NTSC.

Fourth bullet point down under "Features" says:

"Convert MPEG file between PAL and NTSC"

I'll download the trial version tonight and see what it actually does.

Graham

[BJ_M]

it changes the header fps -- same as restream can do ...

or just encode at a different fps than the input .. (same as tmpgenc for example )_

[dragpeace]

it changes the header fps -- same as restream can do ...

So it just increases the length of the video and stretches the audio out to match, eh? Is it really possible to tell if a clip is 4% slower than another? That could be an interesting test. I wonder how many folks can tell?

Graham

[adam]

Well first off, if you convert PAL to NTSC you aren't making the video 4% slower than before, you are simply returning it to the speed it was filmed at. It was the PAL clip that was running faster than "normal." Although it is possible to film in PAL 25fps as well and then it would be reversed.

But as for any perceptible difference between two sources running at 4% difference, on the vast majority of sources it would literally be impossible to tell. Some types of animation can look strange when sped up or slowed down even slightly, but this is rare. The only real instance when the difference between PAL and NTSC is noticable in this regard is when the pitch change comes into effect.

Try comparing the PAL version of Pink Floyd's The Wall to the NTSC version and it is like night and day. The audio has very strange tempo's and the music is very recognizable to any fan. When you speed it up and adjust the pitch it really screws it up. On the DVD they offset the pitch change by decreasing the pitch by 4% as well. Everything seems slow and slightly demonic and its just not the same.

[dragpeace]

it changes the header fps -- same as restream can do ...

I am a complete novice at conversion (but learning a lot by reading these forums). I want to give it a shot at converting a PAL DVD that I have to NTSC format. Could someone kindly give me some advice as to how I'd get started with restream to do this? I downloaded it and input the source file. I assume that I change the fps to 23.976 (or would that be 29.97?). What would I set the Resolution to? As I said, I'm a complete newbie at conversion. I apologize if these questions are too simplistic, but I have surfed the site for restream info and didn't find much. I'm currently reading as best I can about all of this. Thanks in advance!

Graham

[FulciLives]

I tried RESTREAM and it really doesn't work that well for PAL to NTSC conversion. It is a far cry from a "true" conversion.

A screenwriter by the name of Jimmy Sangster wrote a book about his days working for HAMMER STUDIOS where the film making process was very hectic due to mostly very low budgets.

The name of this book?

DO YOU WANT IT GOOD OR TUESDAY?

You just can't RUSH something you want done well.

So do yourself a favor and forget RESTREAM and instead concentrate on the methods described on Xesdeeni's website ... I linked to it in an earlier post in this very thread.

Also here is another thread that you will find extremely helpfull:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=160433

Good Luck!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dragpeace]

So do yourself a favor and forget RESTREAM and instead concentrate on the methods described on Xesdeeni's website

Yeah, you're right. If it's worth doing at all, it's worth doing well. I guess I'll get a cup of coffee, sit down, and start reading. I just needed some motivation and a starting point, and you've given me those. Thanks!

Graham

[BJ_M]

i didnt mean to use restream (or pulldown) to do the conversion- i just said some app did it the same way ..

[FulciLives]

i didnt mean to use restream (or pulldown) to do the conversion- i just said some app did it the same way ..

I tried doing it with IFOEdit once.

Simply change the HEADER to read NTSC etc.

It actually works but playback is not smooth and kinda jerky.

It is not a method I recommend.

I actually never used RESTREAM but I assumed based on what you said that it worked the same way as the IFOEdit trick ... i.e., simply chaning the HEADER ... and as I said that method does not work too well at all.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dragpeace]

I'm converting PAL DVD to NTSC DVD and am getting close to making it work, thanks to Xesdeeni and Fulci's excellent posts on these forums. I'm basically following the advice on

http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/

However, I've downloaded DVD2AVIdg and MPEG2DEC3dg.dll, which leads me to a couple of questions:

In converting PAL DVD 25fps 4:3 Interlaced to NTSC DVD 29.97fps:

1. The Audio menu of DVD2AVIdg is slightly different than the DVD2AVI version referenced on the conversion page. I've chosen:
- Output Method -> Demux(AC3, MPA, DTS)
- Dolby Digital Decode -> Dynamic Range Control -> Off

2. As I've read about problems if you DON'T do this, I'm selecting "Save Project (1.76)" in DVD2AVIdg.

3. When it comes to writing the script for AVISYNTH, I've used:
LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC3dg.dll")
instead of LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC.dll")

Does all of this sound correct? I'm basically looking for some reassurance from the more experienced folks on here, before I tell AVISYNTH to go ahead.

One other dumb question - when I look at the VOB files from the original DVD, the first couple look like intro and menu material. I can ignore these, right, and simply select the VOBs that appear to be the actual video that I care about (obviously, I then have to recreate menus in my authoring package)? Menus, chapters, etc., don't carry over in the conversion, do they? I'm assuming that gets lost in the conversion. Sorry if this is obvious.

Thanks!

Graham

[FulciLives]

I'm converting PAL DVD to NTSC DVD and am getting close to making it work, thanks to Xesdeeni and Fulci's excellent posts on these forums. I'm basically following the advice on

http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/

However, I've downloaded DVD2AVIdg and MPEG2DEC3dg.dll, which leads me to a couple of questions:

In converting PAL DVD 25fps 4:3 Interlaced to NTSC DVD 29.97fps:

1. The Audio menu of DVD2AVIdg is slightly different than the DVD2AVI version referenced on the conversion page. I've chosen:
- Output Method -> Demux(AC3, MPA, DTS)
- Dolby Digital Decode -> Dynamic Range Control -> Off

2. As I've read about problems if you DON'T do this, I'm selecting "Save Project (1.76)" in DVD2AVIdg.

I only use version 1.76 but if the newer versions have a "compatable" 1.76 version mode then that should be ok. And yes you want to DEMUX the audio not convert it to WAV format.

BTW most people don't realize this but if you are going to use TMPGEnc as your MPEG-2 encoder use RGB color and PC SCALE. However if you use CCE then use YUV (aka YUY2) color and TV SCALE.

3. When it comes to writing the script for AVISYNTH, I've used:
LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC3dg.dll")
instead of LoadPlugin("MPEG2DEC.dll")

If you want to use Xesdeeni's SmoothDeinterlacer then you need to use AviSynth version 2.08 which uses MPEG2DEC.DLL not MPEG2DEC3.DLL which is for the newer 2.5x version of AviSynth. You can find AviSynth version 2.08 in the downloads section of the DOOM9 website.

One other dumb question - when I look at the VOB files from the original DVD, the first couple look like intro and menu material. I can ignore these, right, and simply select the VOBs that appear to be the actual video that I care about (obviously, I then have to recreate menus in my authoring package)? Menus, chapters, etc., don't carry over in the conversion, do they? I'm assuming that gets lost in the conversion. Sorry if this is obvious.

Sometimes the first VOB will have the menu and usually nothing more so yeah you can delete that from the list of imported VOB files.

Good Luck!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dragpeace]

If you want to use Xesdeeni's SmoothDeinterlacer then you need to use AviSynth version 2.08 which uses MPEG2DEC.DLL not MPEG2DEC3.DLL which is for the newer 2.5x version of AviSynth.

Ahhh, that's interesting. I'm using Avisynth 2.5, but I included the SmoothDeinterlacer lines in my AVS file (along with the MPEG2DEC3dg.dll lines). I gave the go-ahead to TEMPGEnc an hour or so ago, and it seems to be happily encoding. I haven't received any error message about SmoothDeinterlacer, so is it just going to ignore it? Should I stop the encode and start all over again with AviSyth 2.08 (and MGPEG2DEC.dll)?

Graham

[FulciLives]

If you want to use Xesdeeni's SmoothDeinterlacer then you need to use AviSynth version 2.08 which uses MPEG2DEC.DLL not MPEG2DEC3.DLL which is for the newer 2.5x version of AviSynth.

Ahhh, that's interesting. I'm using Avisynth 2.5, but I included the SmoothDeinterlacer lines in my AVS file (along with the MPEG2DEC3dg.dll lines). I gave the go-ahead to TEMPGEnc an hour or so ago, and it seems to be happily encoding. I haven't received any error message about SmoothDeinterlacer, so is it just going to ignore it? Should I stop the encode and start all over again with AviSyth 2.08 (and MGPEG2DEC.dll)?

Graham

Well if I'm not mistaken there are two versions of SmoothDeinterlacer and the one on Xesdeeni's website is for the older 2.08 version but there is a version for AviSynth 2.5x but I never could get that to work.

If it is encoding and you see an image in the preview window of TMPGEnc then I guess it is working. Otherwise I think you get an error message.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dragpeace]

If it is encoding and you see an image in the preview window of TMPGEnc then I guess it is working. Otherwise I think you get an error message.

I see an image, and it seems to be chugging along (12 hours to go!), so I'll let it run and see what the result is. If SmoothDeinterlacer didn't run properly, I assum I'll see it in the final result.

On a personal note - thanks, Fulci, for all of your excellent posts on this site. I came into this forum a few weeks ago knowing absolutely nothing about this topic. However, after reading many of your posts (and the various other resources on these pages), I feel like I have a handle on things. You do a very good job of answering questions in a way that is useful to the individual asking the question. It is greatly appreciated!

Graham

[FulciLives]

On a personal note - thanks, Fulci, for all of your excellent posts on this site. I came into this forum a few weeks ago knowing absolutely nothing about this topic. However, after reading many of your posts (and the various other resources on these pages), I feel like I have a handle on things. You do a very good job of answering questions in a way that is useful to the individual asking the question. It is greatly appreciated!

Graham

Thanks Graham I appreciate that

Hopefully everything is going well with your encode. As for CCE I think it had to do with the N/M setting being wrong and/or the high bitrate you used.

Last night I ripped a PAL DVD that I know is INTERLACED and did a sample using CCE along with Xesdeeni's AviSynth AVS script and it worked when I used the default of N/M=4 (since it was a test I did a CBR of 7500kbps with no audio).

The video played back smooth on my TV using my Hollywood + MPEG decoder card (a great tool which saves BURNING discs for testing purposes).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[zeub]

I did a conversion of PAL to NTSC using MainConcept and did the AC3 file extraction with DVD2AVI. Converted that to AC3 with BeSweet. Then used TMPGenc DVD Author to make my own DVD. There were no synch problems but there are two instances when the video playback freezes and then resumes. I noticed during the ripping on my Sony 1610 DVD Rom, I had a lot of retries. Could this be an issue? Just a question in light of this thread.

[dragpeace]

BTW most people don't realize this but if you are going to use TMPGEnc as your MPEG-2 encoder use RGB color and PC SCALE. However if you use CCE then use YUV (aka YUY2) color and TV SCALE.

You mean that these should be selected in the DVD2AVI (I'm using version 1.77.3dg1.0.0RC2) Video menu, correct? That is, choose:
Video -> Color Space -> RGB 24bit
and Video -> "YUV->RGB" -> PC Scale

Juat making sure.

Graham

[FulciLives]

BTW most people don't realize this but if you are going to use TMPGEnc as your MPEG-2 encoder use RGB color and PC SCALE. However if you use CCE then use YUV (aka YUY2) color and TV SCALE.

You mean that these should be selected in the DVD2AVI (I'm using version 1.77.3dg1.0.0RC2) Video menu, correct? That is, choose:
Video -> Color Space -> RGB 24bit
and Video -> "YUV->RGB" -> PC Scale

Juat making sure.

Graham

Yes that is correct. That seems to be the best selection when you use TMPGEnc. This is because TMPGEnc works best with RGB and seems to favor PC SCALE (0-255) source material.

CCE on the other hand works in the YUV/YUY2 colorspace.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[johns0]

One way you can tell is play the pal and then the ntsc convert and you`ll notice a slight change in the pitch.Thats about the only way unless you got a great memory with pitchs.

[Ducky]

Ok guys, im going to ask a silly question... coz i have a ntsc video that i want to encode to pal so that my tv previews a colored picture...
so i tried the common solution
http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/ but once u have your m2v file, how do u get the audio back on it... im sorry, but ive just jumped into video editing and demultiplexing it doesnt work..., im using mpeg tools (TMPGEnc Plus) to do it, and it starts ok, but skips the 9/10 of the file... so that i have like 5 minutes off the 20 only...
could u help me?

another question is how long it is to encode from ntsc to pal when the video is 22000 frames? (just checking that im doing all right)

thx by the way to all the ppl who help here (especially FulciLives)

Etienne

[FulciLives]

Ok guys, im going to ask a silly question... coz i have a ntsc video that i want to encode to pal so that my tv previews a colored picture...
so i tried the common solution
http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/ but once u have your m2v file, how do u get the audio back on it... im sorry, but ive just jumped into video editing and demultiplexing it doesnt work..., im using mpeg tools (TMPGEnc Plus) to do it, and it starts ok, but skips the 9/10 of the file... so that i have like 5 minutes off the 20 only...
could u help me?

I don't know what you are talking about. This is too unclear. You mention an M2V file (which is just video) but then metion demultiplexing which is seperating AUDIO and VIDEO from a MPEG or some such like video format. Very confusing.

another question is how long it is to encode from ntsc to pal when the video is 22000 frames? (just checking that im doing all right)

Encoders (i.e., computers) go by frames ... not people (such as myself). I have no idea what 22000 frames is in minutes nor do I feel like figuring it out because encoding time various wildly from computer to computer since there are so many different variables (though CPU speed is the biggest difference generally speaking).

Having said that usually conversions from one format to another take longer than when you do same to same (i.e., NTSC to NTSC or PAL to PAL).

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[fatbloke]

mpeg encoder - will change pal ntsc , no problem and its easy to use

[FulciLives]

mpeg encoder - will change pal ntsc , no problem and its easy to use

Sorry but it is more involved than simply using MainConcepts with simple "default" settings.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman