Slight blurring in action scenes on burned Matrix Reloaded

[kwack]

As teh topic says;

DVD Recorder: Optorite DD0203 firmware 2.26
Media: Datawrite Classic Yellow top
DVD Shrink v3.0 Beta
Nero v6.0.0.19

I ripped the files to my hard drive and Dvdshrink recommended an 86% ratio. So I saved and burned to the above media.

Now in the 1st fight scene there is a slight shadow on fast moving hands etc

This is being played on my standalone Pioneer DV350.

Any ideas on what may have caused this. I ensured that my broadband is turned off so there is no activity in the background.

On other films I have done I have not noticed this occurring before, although having said that neitehr of teh other ones have fast action scenes.

Any suggestions is appreciated

Cheers

Kwack

[BJ_M]

well - when you reduce the bitrate and transcode -- you may lose something in the proccess

[defense]

Like BJ_M said...using a transcoder like DVD SHRINK will cause this. To be honest, it "kind" of surprises me that people don't mind these type of affects. I personally couldn't use a program like that for a backup..the quality is just too crappy. Especially in an action movie like The Matrix'.

I will use either DVD Shrink when I can just reduce the extras and not touch the main movie and menu's....or i'll use DVD2ONE RARELY if the disk is just SLIGHTLY over the max space and there are no extras to encode. Those proggy's are good in those situations..but any more then that..and forget about it..the quality is complete crap as far as i'm concerned.

I recently tested 5 different movies....all of them needing heavy compression...I put all of them in DVDSHRINK and then DVD2ONE....and I was absolutely amazed at how much better the output with DVD2ONE was over DVD SHRINK. In all honesty....it wasn't even close...DVD SHRINK produced much more pixelation then DVD2ONE. I didn't think the difference would be that great..but it definitely was. Of course..that was just for fun..to test and see the difference on something that needed heavy compression between both proggy's. Too bad DVD2ONE doesn't give more control over "specifics" like the Extras like DVDSHRINK does..but the quality output is far superior to that of DVDSHRINK.

Even on a movie using DVDSHRINK where I only needed around 15% compression....which put it at ~85% or so....I noticed that in two scenes....way in the background of both those scenes...there was slower movement/pixelation.....I'm pretty sure most people on any T.V wouldn't notice this..because it was so far in the background away from the action...but it stuck out like a sore thumb to me. That's why these type of proggy's are in no way..an option. When high quality T.V's become less expensive and people start viewing their DVD SHRINK DVD's at that time....people are gonna realize real quick they have FAR from a 1:1 backup...FAR from it. There's no two ways about it.

[asisoft]

I recently also did a backup of Matrix Reloaded. But I was surprised that you managed to archieve only 1x% compression. The main movie is more than 2 hr long and in my case I need to use a compression of 25% in order to fit the movie into one single DVD-R.

However in DVDShrink you can apply different ratios to difference scences.

I applied a 8% compression ratio for Chapter 12 -15 and 25% for the rest and the result is more than acceptable by a couple of my friends.

[kwack]

The way I did it was to chop out all the extras, menus and teh credits at the end which took away about 250mb or something like that.

Thanks for all the replies. At least I know that it is not a hardware problem

Cheers Guys

Kwack

[lordsmurf]

Did you run deep analysis?

[defense]

Did you run deep analysis?

I'm sure you were referring to the original poster with that question..but I just wanted to mention that I did run Deep Analysis DVD SHRINK on the 5 test movies. And DVD2ONE still destroyed DVD SHRINK with the difference in output quality. That's pretty impressive because DVD2ONE doesn't have an option for deep analysis. Just VBR AND CBR...which,...by the way...

I used VBR for all of them. I should probably randomly choose another 2-3 movies and run them with DEEP ANALYSIS and without deep analysis..and see if there is any noticeable quality difference. I'd think there would be...but with the terrible pixelation with Deep Analaysis enabled with heavy compression....i'd hate to see what it would look like without deep analysis enabled. If anyone is even remotely concerned with quality...neither program is an acceptible option unless you are transcoding less then ~10%.

[kwack]

I will try with deep analysis and see how that goes

Many Thanks

Kwack

[GabeB]

Pinnacle's Instant CD/DVD gave me a great final output (movie only, no extra audio). I've let couple of friends borrow it and there haven't been any complaints. Remember that our eyes are way more trained then the average person's.

[noki]

defense
thanks for you input. when you did your tests what was the final compression ratio in shrink (besides the 15% one)? i assume it was set on automatic. i have had the opposite result. i did a full disk backup of beauty and the beast platinum edition with both (heavy compression) and the d2o was more pixelated than shrink. my main movie-only backup (w_shrink) was much better than the full backup of course. thanks.

kwack
please give us your results using deep analysis...i assume you did not use the first time? thanks

GabeB
how long did it take IC to give you the resultant files to burn? thanks

[GabeB]

Noki,
I started Pinnacle Instant before going to work and burned the DVD when I returned home (9 hours later). Therefore, I don't know the exact time but I've had it take up to 2.5 hours. Depends on your CPU. AMD 2400+
Reloaded is a rather large and long movie. I found that the lack of color and slow motion action helps when encoding (less artifacts).

[noki]

thanks GabeB

kwack
"...Now in the 1st fight scene there is a slight shadow on fast moving hands etc"
just curious was this shadow also on the original dvd

[noki]

defense
what non-crappy prog/technique do you favor in backing up your dvds? just curious...thanks. btw mr. d2o states that on long movies (heavy compression) it might be preferable to use CBR. ..
"...Unfortunately it is difficult to say which mode results in the best visible image quality. It depends the most on the way the encoder of the original movie works. In general the constant ratio mode works better on long (2 1/2 hours and more) movies than the variable mode, because excesses in compression ratio will be more visible at lower bit rates. However, in most cases both modes will work fine, so you can choose the mode you prefer."

just a thought.

[defense]

defense
thanks for you input. when you did your tests what was the final compression ratio in shrink (besides the 15% one)? i assume it was set on automatic. i have had the opposite result. i did a full disk backup of beauty and the beast platinum edition with both (heavy compression) and the d2o was more pixelated than shrink. my main movie-only backup (w_shrink) was much better than the full backup of course. thanks.

@ noki, do more tests and you'll see that DVD Shrink produces more pixelation then DVD2ONE.

This has been said many times on this forum...i've just never paid it much attention because I never really use either of the programs anyway. I had some extra time and figured i'd run some tests...so that's exactly what I did. The total compression for all the movies was ~50% or so..deep analysis enabled.

Beauty and the Beast isn't a good example because it's an animated film. I'd think you'd notice less artifacts with an animated film then you would with a standard film. Beauty and the Beast also has two seperate titles for Full Screen and Wide Screen. That particular movie didn't need any compression. You could just select the version you want..rip it...use IFOEDIT to get VTS SECTORS and use menuedit to remove/disable the version you don't want.

All my backups look exactly like the original because I spend the necessary time. I won't even consider keeping menu's or extras if my bitrate for the main movie isn't 3000 or greater. I was just looking at "BOAT TRIP"...the average bitrate was 2100 using CCE along with Reauthorist, Doitfast4u, and Scenarist...and that's just unacceptible to me. I'll simply do a movie only and strip streams with DVD SHRINK or IFOEDIT using ZERO COMPRESSION. The same was true with movies like BULLET PROOF MONK....keeping all menu's and extras had very noticeable pixelation when I tested with DVD SHRINK...the avg bitrate was around 2100 as well if I went the long route....so again..I said forget about it..and did movie only. 0 as in "ZERO" compression.

Fortunately, in MOST cases...going the long route works perfectly....absolutely ZERO pixelation or artifacts..and as close to 1:1 backups as you can get.

[noki]

defense
thanks for the reply. you are right about b&b's main movie. i used shrink to cast aside the baggage and did not use any compreesion for my main movie-only backup...which is why it was much better than my full disc backup using shrink.
what utility/technique do you use to determine the bitrate of the main movie thanks.

[defense]

defense
thanks for the reply. you are right about b&b's main movie. i used shrink to cast aside the baggage and did not use any compreesion for my main movie-only backup...which is why it was much better than my full disc backup using shrink.
what utility/technique do you use to determine the bitrate of the main movie thanks.

There are calculators in the tools section of this forum which will help you determine the bitrate/ file size predictor.

I don't generally use those though..I use the bitrate reauthorist gives when using it along with Doitfast4u and Scenarist. The problem is that reauthorist sometimes goes over SLIGHTLY...so I simply deduct ten off the number R.A gives and it's worked like a charm. If the docce4u.txt file says a number ridiculously smaller...say "100" then i'll deduct 15 and it has worked perfectly for me. Haven't been over since..and i've gotten to within' mere KB's of the maximum 4,489 MB's.

With all this being said...I may just go against everything i've ever done with "FINDING NEMO." I checked the WideScreen version and the main movie is in VTS_01 ..but the damn thing has a WHOPPING 52 PGC's within' VTS_01. WOW.....that's crazy. I'd have to demux by vob id in order to use the big three. I ran it earlier through DVD SHRINK because i'm not going to demux all that crap by vob id.....I would just do a movie only....if necessary..but I did run it through DVD SHRINK with DEEP ANALYSIS enabled...and I can't see any artifacts.

I didn't watch it fully though..just skimmed through the chapters. It looks damn good...i'll have to watch it and see if I notice anything. If I don't....that will work..if I do..i'll just do a movie only backup. But it looks like you can use DVD SHRINK with heavy compression for these animated titles...which is basically what I was saying earlier. I hope i'm right and I don't see any artifacts..but at 54% it looks damn good..even when compared to the original.

[Thunder In Paradise]

I used DVD Shrink 3.0b, with Ritek DVD-R (gotta love em'!), and used like 20-30% compression, and got the whole disc onto the DVD-R with flawless playback.

[Bodene]

I used DVD2One on Matrix Reloaded and ended up with a great backup. I see no pixelation or blurring in any of the fight scenes. To my semi-untrained eyes...it looks virtually identical to the original. Those who have watched it on their own video set up agreed that the quality is awesome.

I ripped and copied the movie only, since it's such a long flick.

[northcat_8]

I backed up Reloaded using IC7, compressed to 84% I think (it's been a while). I have no blockiness, artifacts or anything, it looks as sharp as the original IMO, although I know that's not really possible.

Just a statement here, but processor speed and RAM have a great influence on the clarity of compressed DVD video. With my old 1 Ghz AMD it took 3-4 hours to compress a DVD and it looked pretty good. But since I have upgraded my system to a 2.2 Ghz AMD, 1 GB of DDR RAM and an ASUS A7V333 MoBo with on board RAID (2-80 GB Maxtor's 7200's). I rip to my 60 GB OS drive then compress and write to my RAID drive. My DVD's are compressed through IC7 in about 1 hour and I have not had any pixelation, artifacts, or anything other than clean clear video.

I always convert the PDI files to ISO and burn with Decrypter at 4x on RitekG04's (as far as I'm concerned the only media worth buying) using a Pioneer DVR-105.

I am at a loss on DVD SHRINK and DVD2ONE because IC7 works well for me so I have never used the others. I also will not upgrade to IC8 because IC7 does work, so why change it.

Which just goes to show the best software is the one that works for you.

[Thunder In Paradise]

I don't know about different processing speeds resulting in different rip quality. My other computer (750 Mhz P3, with 256 RAM) didn't have a DVD-RW, so I never had anything to compare it to. Now, I'm running my Pioneer DVR-105 in my newly built system with a Pentium IV 2.53Ghz with 512MB of Corsair XMS PC3200 RAM, and I can usually rip a movie, with Deep Analysis on in about 40min.

[Gazorgan]

I'm sitting here watching my Reloaded backup, and comparing it to the original (aint' 2 DVD drives great?).

I cheated. I have no menues or extras. I trimmed the intro and credits (it's a backup after all). Deep Analysis and DVDShrink 3.05B. I'm not really seeing any pixelization. I have an LCD monitor at the moment, so it's sharper on things like that. I can't recall what the compression ratio was before starting, but I think it was over 90%.

I can't imagine doing this DVD to 1 disk and keeping everything. It's too big.

[defense]

gazorgan wrote:

I'm sitting here watching my Reloaded backup, and comparing it to the original (aint' 2 DVD drives great?).

I cheated. I have no menues or extras. I trimmed the intro and credits (it's a backup after all). Deep Analysis and DVDShrink 3.05B. I'm not really seeing any pixelization. I have an LCD monitor at the moment, so it's sharper on things like that. I can't recall what the compression ratio was before starting, but I think it was over 90%.

I can't imagine doing this DVD to 1 disk and keeping everything. It's too big.

Unless there is another disk i'm unfamiliar with....there was no reason to do a movie only with reloaded. I used doitfast4u, reauthorist, CCE, and Scenarist...kept the original menu untouched. There were no extras..or little extras on the disk. My average bitrate was something like 3,700kbps or so. My backup looks identical to the original..with the backups structure..exactly that of the original.

The size of the disk means absolutely zilch because if there are no extras..or few extras...then in almost all cases the main movie has such a ridiculosly high avg bitrate..it can be cut in half and using the right tools...there will be no visual difference in quality.

The same was true with LOTR TWO TOWERS...there were no extras on the movie disk...same structure as Matrix Reloaded....I did that the same way....with the structure intact on the backup as the original.

[northcat_8]

Thunder in Paradise wrote:

I don't know about different processing speeds resulting in different rip quality.

Ripping is a just a speed process, my rips are always the same quality. I was talking about compression quality.

[northcat_8]

[northcat_8]

[northcat_8]

computer sucking....stupid MAC at work.....