What the heck is DVD-RAM used for anyways?

[i am x]

Ok, you all can silly slap me later, but I'm curious about something. I have the GSA LG-4040B burner, and I've never used it for DVD-RAM burning. I've never needed it. But now I'm curious. Exactly what is DVD-RAM burning, and what is it used mainly for?

[handyguy]

Panasonic dvd recorders..... as a matter of fact, my Panasonic Dvd recorder, dvd writer & dvd player all use it

It lasts forever no matter how many times you write to it IF you could write to it 100 times a day for 1000 days, it would do it.

[RabidDog]

8) longest established of the dvd formats, it used to be for mainly video editing then went into the first consumer DVD recorders (panasonic). v expensive media tho, which used to need a caddy. now dead and all but buried. :P

[i am x]

Panasonic dvd recorders..... as a matter of fact, my Panasonic Dvd recorder, dvd writer & dvd player all use it

It lasts forever no matter how many times you write to it IF you could write to it 100 times a day for 1000 days, it would do it.

Ok, so what standalone players can play it BESIDES the Panasonic ones? I don't have ANYTHING that's Panasonic. So is that to say that I will only be able to play it on the 4040B burner, since I don't have a Panasonic unit?

[bugster]

Its actually very popular as a PC backup/archive medium. Can be used like a very large floppy disk (remember them )

[trhouse]

Here is how DVD-RAM started out,

"DVD-RAM rewriting is only supported by DVD-RAM drives. DVD-RAM was not designed for consumers, but as an optical archiving standard, hence why it was first. DVD-RAM 1G (1997) debuted at 2.6GB/side (typical of the proprietary optical formats of the time), and increased to 2x and 4.7GB/side in 2G (1999). Based on Matsushita's PhaseDual technology (which is why Linux support was available on day 1), using modified laser logic, write verification and uniquely sector-aligned media (even outside the cartridge, it can be immediately differentiated from any other DVD format by its "track dashes"), it solves many of the reliablity and longevity issues of magneto optical (MO) media. DVD-RAM increases media lifetime 10x, number of re-writes 100x and reduces the error rate 1,000x times (near-magnetic equivalent) over other MO formats, including CD-RW, DVD-RW and DVD+RW. The "cost" is that DVD-RAM is not readable outside of DVD-RAM itself, and the verify logic cuts write performance in half (on 1-3G DVD-RAM). Despite the emergence of consumer DVD-RW and DVD+RW, DVD-RAM continues to proliferate as the standard for long-term optical archiving."

I find it interesting that while everyone thinks that the battle in formats is between -R and +R, DVD-RAM is enjoying a resurgence of sorts. Here is a list of DVD recorder manufacturers which all have new models capable of burning DVD-RAM. Pioneer, Panasonic, Phillips, RCA, Samsung, Sharp, and Toshiba.

Another reason DVD-RAM is popular in the computer world is described below,

"DVD-RAM uses random access technology
DVD-R, +R, -RW, +RW or ROM use a sequential technology."

which is to say DVD-RAM behaves like a hard drive while -RW/+RW behaves more like a tape drive.

[RAAGAAman]

DVD-RAM is still very big in Asia. With set top recorders by Toshiba, Hitachi, Samsung and Panasonic it is probably here to stay.
I saw a Hitachi DVD-RAM/-R(8cm) Camcorder the other day. More expensive than a standard DV Camera but at least you can just pop in the disk on your PC(if your drive supports RAM) and edit it quicker than sending it to you computer.
I am dissapointed that some of the major retails chains have dropped DVD-RAM media. I have to buy mine from Meritline.

RG

[next]

Not dead. It is a great format.

It is truely a hard drive with random access.

[fmctm1sw]

8) now dead and all but buried. :P

[qoute="next"] Not dead. It is a great format. [/quote]


Sound like a good poll question

Cast my vote for "dead"

[next]

Ready for a vote but not arrogrant enough to propose or deny.

[trhouse]

This is Ritek's estimate of 2003 sales,

"Ritek said sales of recordable DVD discs could hit 400 to 500 million units next year, by its more optimistic projections, according to a report in Taiwan industry journal DigiTimes. Ritek chief executive Gordon Yeh said that DVD-R would account for for 160 million units, with DVD+R, DVD+RW, DVD-RW and DVD-RAM formats making up about 40 million discs each."

Reminds me of Mark Twain's quote

"The report of my death was an exaggeration."

[compuball]

Not that anyone here would care, but a lot of banks swear by DVD-RAM. The banks I know of use one disc for each month and archive their records. Once the month that's burned to the disc comes around the following year, they permanently archive it and wipe it clean for the next year...

[gmatov]

Do a search. There was a poll. DVD RAM is dead, some such.

It ain't.

Cheers,

George

[musher70]

I too, was a non-believer, until i got a dvr-e50...
cant believe the ease of use of dvd-ram, so i bought
like 10 of them at walmart for about 4 bucks each,
formats in like 20 seconds, gonna fall asleep, wanna
know where you left off, just hit marker,and wham
there you are, split video, boom, there ya go, find
a toshiba/panasonic ide drive, and youre all set...
nay-sayers think what you want, like laserdisc and
betamaxes, there is always a use for something..
betacams are still used today, believe it or not..

[trhouse]

DVD-RAM like Cisco routers quietly earn there keep hidden in the backbone of the internet. Here is a example of how they are used should a terabyte of fast backup be needed.

http://www.camcorpusa.com/network_Powerfile_R200S_Writer_DVD_Libraries.html

[handyguy]

Its also the only media I know that can come in a cartidge, thus protecting the disks from dust. Therefore, makes a great daily backup solution.

[RabidDog]

I knew the "dead" comment would provoke debate. I use to use dvdram in a bank, in a jukebox, and it was a pain. only 2+ g at the time. It would appear to have great archival qualitys. If you want your teletubbies backups to be still around for your Great gran-chillen' to see.. use these!

[spectroelectro]

Nobody seems to have pointed the most obvious and impressive use for DVD-RAM. Namely, you can use DVD-RAM discs in your Panasonic DMR DVD recorder to record video, then pop the DVD-RAM disc into an appropriate DVD burner or DVD-ROM drive in your computer and copy the MPEG-2 data to your hard drive and then edit & manipulate it.
Many people do exactly that on this forum. Advantages? Capturing raw AVI files takes a lot of space -- recording in a Panasonic DVD recorder using the highest (XP) video format to DVD-RAM produces very high-quality MPEG-2 files in real time. No encoding, and very little hard disk space taken up when you go to author the DVD.
XP mode records a standard WAV file as audio so it's easy to edit the resulting MPEG-2. In XP mode, the Panasonic series do an excellent job of encoding into MPEG-2 and being able to edit the MPEG-2 directly off a DVD-RAM and add menus etc. gives the best of both worlds.

[Scobo]

I'm surprised that DVD-RAM hasn't become the standard for video as they must be far more robust than the other DVD formats.
I've rented some DVD's from my local video store which have had trouble playing and, on closer examination, were covered in finger prints and scratches from other people mis-handling them.
I suppose it must come down to production cost as usual.
I'm looking for a set-top recorder and can't decide between the Panansonic with DVD-RAM or the other machines currently on offer.
My problem is I don't have a DVD-RAM compatible drive in my PC at present.
I'm interested to hear other peoples views on DVD-RAM and whether it's likely to be around much longer or not.

[Gil T Pleasure]

Here is a list of DVD recorder manufacturers which all have new models capable of burning DVD-RAM. Pioneer, Panasonic, Phillips, RCA, Samsung, Sharp, and Toshiba.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but Pioneer and Sharp support DVD-R/RW only while Philips and RCA support DVD+R/RW. Not even Samsung's new dual format PC burner supports DVD-RAM.

[trhouse]

I was referring to manufacturers of standalone DVD recorders not the PC based models. In the standalone market, DVD-RAM leads all others.

"DVD-RAM RECORDERS CAPTURE 70% CONSUMER MARKETSHARE IN FIRST QUARTER

Editorial Contacts:
Maggie O'Neill
Peppercom
(415) 438-9823
moneill@pepeprcom.com

June 17, 2003 - As sales of recordable DVD products continue to skyrocket, feature-rich, stand-alone consumer recorders based on the DVD-RAM format are leading the way, having captured 70.2 percent of the U.S. DVD consumer recorder market in the first three months of 2003, according to leading market information company The NPD Group.

In the past year, sales of consumer DVD recorders have grown almost ten-fold and DVD-RAM recorders accounted for 62.8 percent of stand-alone consumer recorders sold between October 2001 and March 2003. According to the Recordable DVD Council, such figures confirm that DVD-RAM continues to be the format of choice for consumer DVD recorders."

The link below shows the list of the mentioned manufacturers which make DVD-RAM compatible standalones.

http://www.dvd-recorder-buying-guide.com/dvd-recorders-by-features.html

[ZenZen]

You would really think that capturing Foxtel Sat TV via a Canopus ADVC-100, then encoding it into DVD with CCE using a high VBR...Is about as good as it gets. Right? Wrong. (That's how I used to do it).
Last week I purchased a Panasonic DMR-50, along with 10 DVD-Ram discs. To test the water, I recorded a 30 min Foxtel program on DVD-Ram using the SP (2 Hour) mode, and captured exactly the same program via the ADVC-100 and encoded it with CCE with Max settings.

The Results: The DMR-50 using DVD-Ram produced a much cleaner sharper picture So, now my method of capture is on the DMR-50 to DVD-Ram, then Ram disc into the computer. Using TMPGenc DVD Author I now remove the station breaks, etc, add a menu if required, mix with previously captured files if required, and burn straight to DVD -R.

I have 10 single-sided DVD-Ram discs, which will give me 20 hours of really good capture time, or 10 hours (XP Mode) of fantastic capture time.
Once the program has been recorded onto DVD-R, then the DVD-Ram discs are erased and ready for their next operation
Long Live DVD-Ram !!!

[Gil T Pleasure]

I was referring to manufacturers of standalone DVD recorders not the PC based models. In the standalone market, DVD-RAM leads all others.

Maybe so, but none of the standalone DVD recorder models from Pioneer, Sharp, Philips and RCA are capable of burning to DVD-RAM discs.

[trhouse]

I think you are right. Investigating the models which are listed as supporting DVD-RAM yielded some surprises like the ad below,

"Sharp DVD Recorder, DVD-RAM, DVD-R, iLink Digital Input Model DVR-W2U
[DVR-W2U]

Click to enlarge


To see pricing information, or for further details, Click Here to go to our online store.

Special offer - buy this item and a Panamax Max4300-Max5100 and get 15% off of the Panamax! Ground shipping (free) only, US mainland only. Panamax will give you the best picture and sound possible, and also protect your expensive system.

# DVD-R/RW recording format
# DVD video, DVD-R/RW, video CD, audio CD, CD-R/RW and MP3 playback
# Progressive scan video output for color clarity and dynamic picture quality
# Cable ready tuner with EZ setup function
# DV i.Link, three S-video and three composite video inputs
# Optical Toslink and stereo RCA audio outputs
# Digital noise reduction for optimum picture quality
# 16 15/16" x 3 1/4" x 14 1/4"
# Retail: $799.95"

Seems like much misinformation floating out there on advertiser sites. Thank you for bringing this up. I stand corrected.

[mikesbytes]

I would of thought that this format war was all done and dusted with the multi format burners. First we saw - and + combined and now ram as well. I no longer need to worry about which format to buy as in Aus, the +- burner is $230 and the +-ram burner is $260. Rather than figure out my requirements, I just need to fork out another $30.

[solarfox]

I'm surprised that DVD-RAM hasn't become the standard for video as they must be far more robust than the other DVD formats.
I've rented some DVD's from my local video store which have had trouble playing and, on closer examination, were covered in finger prints and scratches from other people mis-handling them.
I suppose it must come down to production cost as usual.

That and, frankly, they're just as happy to have DVD's (and CD's, for that matter) NOT be robust. How would they sustain their business model of selling you the same thing over and over every three or four years if the discs were actually built to last?

[Northstar]

You would really think that capturing Foxtel Sat TV via a Canopus ADVC-100, then encoding it into DVD with CCE using a high VBR...Is about as good as it gets. Right? Wrong. (That's how I used to do it).
Last week I purchased a Panasonic DMR-50, along with 10 DVD-Ram discs. To test the water, I recorded a 30 min Foxtel program on DVD-Ram using the SP (2 Hour) mode, and captured exactly the same program via the ADVC-100 and encoded it with CCE with Max settings.

The Results: The DMR-50 using DVD-Ram produced a much cleaner sharper picture So, now my method of capture is on the DMR-50 to DVD-Ram, then Ram disc into the computer. Using TMPGenc DVD Author I now remove the station breaks, etc, add a menu if required, mix with previously captured files if required, and burn straight to DVD -R.

I have 10 single-sided DVD-Ram discs, which will give me 20 hours of really good capture time, or 10 hours (XP Mode) of fantastic capture time.
Once the program has been recorded onto DVD-R, then the DVD-Ram discs are erased and ready for their next operation
Long Live DVD-Ram !!!

I was just wondering, how do you capture a film thats over 1hour (xp), you do have to swap disks i presume, so you have to miss out on something, even if its only a few seconds, what if its an important bit with action wouldnt that be annoying?

[Roll Tide]

You would really think that capturing Foxtel Sat TV via a Canopus ADVC-100, then encoding it into DVD with CCE using a high VBR...Is about as good as it gets. Right? Wrong. (That's how I used to do it).
Last week I purchased a Panasonic DMR-50, along with 10 DVD-Ram discs. To test the water, I recorded a 30 min Foxtel program on DVD-Ram using the SP (2 Hour) mode, and captured exactly the same program via the ADVC-100 and encoded it with CCE with Max settings.

The Results: The DMR-50 using DVD-Ram produced a much cleaner sharper picture So, now my method of capture is on the DMR-50 to DVD-Ram, then Ram disc into the computer. Using TMPGenc DVD Author I now remove the station breaks, etc, add a menu if required, mix with previously captured files if required, and burn straight to DVD -R.

I have 10 single-sided DVD-Ram discs, which will give me 20 hours of really good capture time, or 10 hours (XP Mode) of fantastic capture time.
Once the program has been recorded onto DVD-R, then the DVD-Ram discs are erased and ready for their next operation
Long Live DVD-Ram !!!

I was just wondering, how do you capture a film thats over 1hour (xp), you do have to swap disks i presume, so you have to miss out on something, even if its only a few seconds, what if its an important bit with action wouldnt that be annoying?

You get a Panasonic recorder with a hard drive. Then you have 17 or more hours of XP quality available. If you don't have the hard drive, you can still set the DVD-RAM to record in flexible mode. So if your movie runs 2 h 15 minutes for example, set flexible record for that time and it will encode the movie such that it fits the whole movie on the one disc.

[JoBo]

I'm planning to buy a dvd recorder that can record on dvd-ram and dvd-r. I want to know which dvd-rom computer drive can read dvd-ram disc. I don't think that my pioneer 105 can read dvd-ram disk so I'm planning to buy a dvd-rom that can read dvd-ram.

[JoBo]

Zen Zen,

You seem to have some experiences with dvd-ram and dvd-recorders. When you put an recorded dvd-ram on the computer drive can you view it like an normal movie with a software like Power dvd? Is there an video_ts and audio_ts folders that are created when you record on dvd-ram? Can you extract the *.m2v file and *.ac3 file with DvdDecryptor on the dvd-ram disc? thanks.