Basic MPEG Editing (Removing Commercials)

[Tommyknocker]

I still stand by the assertion that AviSynth does not encode. Of course, he can use both applications and decide for himself. You, however, are another matter altogether.

[SeeingMole]

You want him to be able to chose between Avisynth or VirtualDub, which both requires you to re-compress the MPG file, which will waste a whole lot of time as well as degrade quality.

Using a lossless cut/merge software will not only save time, the result will be lossless in quality. Time processing a clip will be in minutes compared to hours if you re-comress.

trhouse and cazeek
If you only wants to edit without re-encoding those files, you can stop wasting your time on Avisynth already.
Avisynth does indeed let you edit and cut and much much more in fact. But you will have to re-compress the result. It will not do a direct cut+merge. Same goes for VirtualDub.

TMPGEnc is the best freeware to do this. If TMPGEnc have problems with the MPG file, then I'm afraid you'll have to fork out some money and get MyFlix XE.

[trhouse]

SeeingMole,

Thanks for the comments. TMPGenc has worked well for me so I do not plan to change. I am always interested in how other tools work. Sometimes it is not the ability of the tool that matters, but whether they will run on my computer. I tried SpruceUp awhile ago and it wouldn't even start!

[SeeingMole]

MyFlix is the only tool I've found to actually be better than TMPGEnc when it comes to simple cut and merge.

For a start, it cuts at frame level. You can cut exactly where you want regardless if it's an I frame (key frame) or not.
TMPGEnc will cut at the nearest I frame, which sometimes may be a bit off the exact place you wanted.

The only minus is of course that it isn't free.

Trying out new tools can be fun and educational, but if the tool doesn't do what you want, it can also be a big waste of time...

[FOO]

Tommyknocker
You can edit all you want with Avisynth and Vdub
You are editing RAW video, not the MPEG. The input MPEG is decoded
to RAW video before it gets to either program.
You will not have an MPEG when you are done editing.

This may be just a definition problem. I don't call it editing mpeg

[CaZeek]

Probably should've checked this post again before trying to figure out how to load mpeg-2s with AVISynth. So AVISynth will re-encode through VDub, then. I'm extremely surprised there aren't tons of just basic MPEG editors out there.. I thought I was asking a pretty dumb question when I originally posted. Womble worked perfectly. I'm sure there was plenty more to the program than just cutting out commercials, but that's all I used it for, and it was extremely easy, mark in, mark out, cut... mark in, mark out, cut.. save mpg. I wouldn't even mind paying for Womble's normal registration fee (somewhere around 30 dollars I believe), but to use MPEG-2s it's over 120. Am I out of luck here? TMPGEnc definitely isn't working for me. Thanks for everyone's help, and I'm sorry that I started a little feud between some of you.

[trhouse]

Sorry Tmpgenc didn't work for you. It seems that there is a lot of software out there that will work on other computers but not mine. I have tried in the past,

Ulead Movie Factory 2
MyDVD 3.52, 4.0, 5.0 Deluxe
SpruceUp
Tmpgenc Author
Tmpgenc ( the encoder )
DVD-Lab
Movie Mill
BeSweet
Arcsoft Showbiz

Some would not even start in my computer. Considering the time spent evaluating all this, you may be lucky that for $120 Womble works for you. Myflix XE is $180 and is available for trial.

I certainly hope no one has been offended. It is contributing to learning that is important and I think everyone here has done that. I learned a few things myself.

[FirefoxV]

Thank you, Thank you very much - Elvis

And you really believe Elvis coined this phrase? Your generation is even more far gone than I once believed.

So he didn't coin the phrase, who cares..it's just as corny as the one you use and just as old. I expected feedback from you and you didn't disappoint me thanks for the info on AVISoft

[Tommyknocker]

Okay, saying thank you very much is "corny". We are in a lot of trouble.

[lpn1160]

MPEG2 editing done easy.
Please check this out. It's what I use
Will also cut .VOB's & has .ac3 support. I think this is what the DR. ordered
MPEG2CUT
http://mitglied.lycos.de/darkav/

[cosmin]

So AVISynth will re-encode through VDub, then. I'm extremely surprised there aren't tons of just basic MPEG editors out there.

Don't be surprised. MPEG was not designed for editing; technically speaking, if you try to edit MPEG you are swimming upstream. The only lossless thing that you can do is to cut the video at I-frames (this is what TMPGEnc does). If a more sophisticated program does more than this, like MyFlix XE, it means that the frames between your P or B cut points and the nearest I-frame are reencoded. If MyFlix XE asks for money, this is about right. It's a difficult thing to implement, after all, and those people deserve that money.

Or you could just as well use VirtualDub to locate the I-frames, and use TMPGEnc to cut the video *exactly* at those points, and you should be fine. Things go easier when the original MPEG video was encoded using the "closed GOP" option turned on.

Other than that, you just don't edit MPEG: you decompress, you do the editing, then you recompress. Granted, you can go through AVISynth, or VirtualDub, or both, and then use again an MPEG encoder -- but for this very specific task, you can avoid this.

Oh, and by the way, if you use DirectShowSource instead of AviSource in AVISynth, you can load MPEGs directly, without an additional plugin (that is, you load the video through the DirectShow interface, not the AVI interface).

DirectShowSource("video.mpg")

[dcsos]

Thanks for the MPEG2CUT link

and this is not freeware either but it works

I'm gonna try MPEG2CUT,
but till i get that working
I use
MPEG2VCR by Womble

actuall there's a whole list of MPEG editors HERE
http://thetechnozone.com/videobuyersguide/software/MPEG-editors.html

[SeeingMole]

DirectShowSource is also another way to do it, but seeking is a real pain in the a$$ slow.
And there's no audio support either (yet).
But MPEG2Dec3.dll doesn't support audio either.

Which brings up another problem, if you used Avisynt to cut and frame serve to an MPEG encoder, how are you going to handle the audio?

Also, you'll have to have an MPEG2 directshow filter installed since Windows only comes with MPEG1. This can be done by installing a software DVD player such as PowerDVD.

EVERY format has this same limiation as MPEG. You can cut and merge without the need to re-encode, but if you want to edit it like adding effects or resize and such, you'll always need to re-encode.

Everybody can do mistakes, but it looks like some of the older generation is just too proud to admit that they're wrong...
Besides, in this field, age has little weight because it all started just a few years ago and things can change quite rapidly.

[CaZeek]

All right, here's the current status. I figured out how to get TMPGEnc working, but now the audio/video is slightly out of sync. Anyone know how to fix this? Thanks.

[SeeingMole]

Does it gradually gets out of sync or is it out of sync the same amount of time?

[trhouse]

Just out of curiosity and to help anyone else that might have the problem, what did you do to get Tmpgenc to work on your system?

[CaZeek]

I think it gets more out of sync with each cut. To get it working, I simply closed some other applications, my computer didn't have enuogh memory for it to work =)

[trhouse]

If you are running on XP, you might want to do CNTRL-ALT-DEL and see what the Windows Task Manager says your CPU usage and what other processes are going on when you run Tmpgenc. I had sync problems one time during capture when an anti-virus program suddenly decided it was time to check the hard drive when CPU usage was already nearly 98%.

[cosmin]

Are you sure you cut the movies at I-frames? To find out where the I-frames are, you can use VirtualDub. See the exact frame numbers and the exact times, make sure that particular frame is an I-frame (it's shown in one of the front panels in VirtualDub), and cut the movie exactly at those points in TMPGEnc.

By the way, when you do any TMPGEnc operation, it doesn't matter how loaded is your system. It will just run more slowly, but it won't get out of sync because of that. System overload affects the output only when capturing video.

The bottom line is, if you cannot get this right with TMPGEnc, maybe it's TMPGEnc's fault. I know it works well if the original video was encoded using the "closed GOPs" option, but maybe it's too dumb when the GOPs are open. In that case, maybe the only option is to use a commercial (and good) cut-and-merge program, or to go all the way through decoding the MPEG to an AVI, cut the commercials using VirtualDub, and reencode it again with TMPGEnc.

Closed GOPs decrease the quality by a small margin, but make the video a little easier to edit. It's a matter of choice - but in your case, you already have the video, so you don't have this choice. I *think* it's encoded using open GOPs, and this is why you might have this problem.

[spartacus_trk]

You don't have to RE-ENCODE when using VirtualDub. Just go to Video menu and sellect "Direct Stream Copy"

It will be much faster

But my problem is that while virtualdub is perfect for avi it gives error and does not open mpeg's. Any help would be appreciated.

[lordsmurf]

TMPGENC or WOMBLE MPEG-VCR ... guides for editing with them both at www.lordsmurf.com ... editing guide for removing commercials

[SeeingMole]

Sh!t dude! I didn't know that! Thanks for enlighten it all to us. All these years we've been using "Full Processing Mode". No wonder everything takes so long. [/end of sarcasm]

spartacus_trk
READ this damn thread from the start and you'll see the whole picture.
We already KNOW that you can use "Direct stream copy" in VirtualDub.

But it will NOT work with MPEG files!! Only AVI.

If you open MPEG files with VirtualDub, you'll always have to re-compress it when you want to save it because VirtualDub can only save AVI files.

BTW, the reason you can't open your MPEG files is probably because they are MPEG2. VirtualDub can only import MPEG1 files. You'll need to use VirtualDubMod if you want to open MPEG2 files.

[lordsmurf]

For people complaining that MPEG is "uneditable" and cutting MPEG is "bad" because it re-encodes an I-frame need to consider the bigger picture ... who cares about one frame when 25-30 flash across every second? Just my thoughts.

[FOO]

Mixed NTSC film still seems uneditable here.

MPEG was not designed for editing; technically speaking

Mpeg2 has a number of flags in its headers designed to facilitate
editing. One surprisingly is called the "edit" bit .

[SeeingMole]

If you use MPEG editing software, such as TMPGEnc, MyFlix, etc. There is no need to re-compress the entire movie.
Only the first frame needs to be rendered as an I frame.
This is the good and correct way to do it.

The bad way to do it is to use software such as Avisynth or VirtualDub where after cutting/editing, you'll have to re-compress the entire movie, wasting both time and quality.

This has been the point of the discussion all along. People who obviously had no clue started recommending Avisynth and VirtualDub for simple cutting jobs where the best aproach would be using specific MPEG cutting/editing programs instead, which would preserve quality and takes only minutes to complete.

[courtrrb]

This a peice of cake for us in the Linux world. It's as easy as falling of a truck. I've been using a program called Avidemux. It will do the thing you are asking about and keep perfect audio sync. It will also encode if you need it to. The best part it's free as in pie. When I ran into a bug the writr replied to my email within an hr to get the problem fixed. Now how many other video editor writes can say that.

[FOO]

AVI demux is sure a strange name for an MPEG editor
are you sure you're not crazy ?

[SeeingMole]

Then I guess there must be plenty of MPEG1/2 compressors as well as editors and cutters in the Linux world? What about if I want to add some cool effects or transcode it to DivX/XviD? Plenty of tools to do that too, right??

[courtrrb]

Yep. Avidemux will encode to DivX/XviD and from DivX/XviD to cd, dvd or svcd so will transcode. Cinerella will do the cool effects. That what I've been using. The last file I tried to encode under Xp I had more problems with audio sync problems than I could stand. I ended up just put the file on a backup dvd and gave up for the time being. When I made the switch to linux I got the file off backup and had no problems with the audio sync. That when I began to wonder why eveybody seam to be use to audio-sync problem and use another program to fix it. It take me less than 20 min to take a captured video cut the commercials out and burn it. In win xp it never took me less than an hr and when I was done my frustration level was alway high due to the problems using Windows. I almost gave up video editing because of these problems. Hers the url to AviDemux check out your self. http://fixounet.free.fr/avidemux/

[SeeingMole]

Umm..
It's features are kinda limited. No VBR MP3 output and many of the audio and video streams it produce aren't 100% compliant.

I used to have problems with audio sync about the first week when I just started learning to encode DivX. Then I learned some basics and since then I've never got any sync problems. I always use VBR MP3 audio.

You have one program on Linux with limited functionality, while I can name a numerous of programs for anything that you'd like to do with any file format.

The trick is just knowing what you do and how to use the program properly. Otherwise it doesn't matter if it's on Linux, Mac or Windows, your output can always be screwed.