Basic MPEG Editing (Removing Commercials)

[trossin]

I 2nd MPEG2CUT. I searched for days. This is the one you want. The price is free. It works with my Hauppauge MPEG2 files great. All the other tools that I tried demos of (some cost > $40) failed big time. It is easy to use and is fast.

[courtrrb]

First I don't want to be able to convert to a lot of exotic codecs just simple cd, dvd or svcd (Which IMHO I belive most people want). This program will convert from any codecs.

Second I tried MPEG2CUT but I ended up removing it from my system. It's didn't work as good as I wanted and it's been 6 mounths since I've tried it.

Third. I do use mpeg-vcr but rarely anymore. It runs great in Linux with winex

[Specialist]

I have considerable experience with Ulead's two video editing programs.

Both will edit MPEG.

Both will allow for removal of commercials.

Both will not re-render the video.

1. Ulead VideoStudio:

http://www.ulead.com/vs/runme.htm

2. Ulead MediaStudio pro:

http://www.ulead.com/msp/runme.htm

They *will* re-render the audio.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[courtrrb]

Both cost $$, I have tried both of them just doing a simple reading and ouput to a new file both gave me audio-out-sync. Both are real slow on P4-2.6ghz 1hr to save?
Avidemux cost no $$ simple to use and perfect audio-sync. Fast 5min to save.

[Specialist]

This is not accurate information.

Both ULEAD video editing programs will edit MPEG without ANY audio sync issues and Ulead VideoStudio 7 is only $99.

Moreover, there are FREE trial versions of both programs at the following links:

http://www.ulead.com/vs/trial.htm

http://www.ulead.com/msp/trial.htm

I have verified that editing of MPEGs can be accomplished WITHOUT ANY LOSS OF VIDEO/AUDIO SYNCHRONIZATION through much testing.

HOWEVER, it *is* necessary for the user to add a simple tweak to the configuration file of each program:

CloseAudioDTR=1

I have posted step-by-step instructions for adding this simple line on the Web page at the following link:

http://www.jonesgroup.net/vdrm30stepsix.htm

The steps are the same for both VideoStudio and MediaStudio Pro.

By adding this one line, I am able to edit MPEGs with Ulead's SMART RENDER technology, which means NO QUALITY LOSS.

Moreover, the speed of file saving is amazingly fast when one correctly sets up one's project.

The user must understand how to correctly set the project settings in each editor to match the properties of the MPEG source files.

For example, I sometimes work with MPEG files that have the following precise video/audio properties:

NTSC drop frame (29.97 fps)
MPEG files
24 Bits, 704 x 480, 29.97 fps
Field Order B
(DVD-NTSC), 4 : 3
Video data rate: Variable (8800 kbps)
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
MPEG audio layer 2, 48 KHz, Stereo

Knowing this information, I adjust my project settings in Ulead VideoStudio or Ulead MediaStudio Pro to *match.*

By *matching* the project setting to the precise video/audio properties of the source files, I engage Ulead's Smart Render technology.

Ulead Smart Render technology is cool.

If one does a cuts-only joining of several MPEG segments, the software will join them without any re-rendering of the video - which preserves quality.

The audio *will* be re-rendered, but that has never bothered me because there is no loss of audio quality that I can discern.

If one adds titles, transitions, or filters - then rendering will occur only at those specific points where the changes are made.

In summary, if one uses the Ulead software correctly, one can edit MPEG just as one might otherwise edit DV .avi files from camcorders.

It's that easy!

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

Both cost $$, I have tried both of them just doing a simple reading and ouput to a new file both gave me audio-out-sync. Both are real slow on P4-2.6ghz 1hr to save?
Avidemux cost no $$ simple to use and perfect audio-sync. Fast 5min to save.

[courtrrb]

Lets me think about it. $$ or no $$. I think I'll stay with the no $$ and no setup Load and run it just plane works. It's so simple even my 9yr know how to cut commercials out of his cartoons.

[FOO]

Jerry , Have you had any occasion to edit any mixed NTSC
MPEG2 files ? e.g. the video changes every so often between
23.976 soft pulldown and straight 29.97. That is the worst case
I have found.

also What happens when the CloseAudioDTR is not set ?
what is AudioDTR ?

[Specialist]

I personally *never* work with a timeline using clips with *mixed* attributes.

I also recommend against that practice.

I first convert all clips that do not conform to the project settings.

Then I insert them following such conversion.

As a result, I don't have the kinds of problems that can result from a timeline full of clips with mixed attributes.

As for the fix...

CloseAudioDTR=1

I can't explain all of the technical details regarding the CloseAudioDTR=1 fix because I'm not as savvy as those who write software.

All I know is the fix works.

Several weeks ago, I wrote to Ulead about some synchronization problems I formerly had.

Ulead's support responded by providing that fix in response to my inquiry.

I suspect they may eventually incorporate it into a future update patch.

The interesting thing about it is that MPEGs rendered from VideoStudio and MediaStudio Pro - without the fix - seem to maintain their sync.

When these MPEGs are inserted into Ulead's DVD authoring applications and previewed via the software DVD players - they again seem to retain their sync.

But after video/audio multiplexing and burning to disc, the video and audio formerly would lose synchronization - until I applied the fix to the configuration files of both VideoStudio and MediaStudio Pro.

I can only surmise it's a codec algorithm issue.

I own a Panasonic VDR-M30 DVD disc camcorder.

It's pretty cool because it writes video directly to mini DVD-RAM or mini DVD-R discs.

Now I can grab the video from these discs...

...I can edit the video in Ulead VideoStudio or Ulead MediaStudio Pro...

...and I can write the video back to a normal DVD-R disc with nice menus.

My Panasonic VDR-M30 tutorial explains the steps:

http://www.jonesgroup.net/vdrm30stepone.htm

I have also tested using the Toshiba D-R1 player/recorder.

Same great results!

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[FOO]

I personally *never* work with a timeline using clips with *mixed* attributes.

I also recommend against that practice.

I recommend against that practice too, but when you want to edit/modify
a DVD that has such attributes, or a capture after IVTC
you are pretty well screwed.

So the bottom line here is Ulead stuff works real well editing MPEG2
if you carefully make sure you feed it a limited subset of possible
input files.

I have verified that editing of MPEGs can be accomplished WITHOUT ANY LOSS OF VIDEO/AUDIO SYNCHRONIZATION through much testing.

Yes, that would be strictly true if two of them worked

I am not trying to be pointlessley argumentative . If the editor will not handle ALL legal MPEG2 streams , it doesn't work and you keep saying
it's great stuff. I don't understand that

[Specialist]

I guess we disagree about what constitutes a professional workflow.

As I stated earlier, one can prepare source clips with variant properties prior to editing them in a given Ulead project.

In other words, if I obtain a clip from a source with the wrong set of properties, I can convert that clip using Ulead's encoding tools.

Then - when the clip has the correct properties - I can include it in a given project.

I believe it is unprofessional to insert clips with variant properties into a given project.

I never said Ulead software couldn't handle it.

I simply consider that workflow to be unprofessional.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

I recommend against that practice too, but when you want to edit/modify
a DVD that has such attributes, or a capture after IVTC
you are pretty well screwed.

[Specialist]

What's so difficult to understand?

If the fix is applied, as I indicated earlier, both programs will edit MPEGs without any loss of video/audio synchronization.

Period.

Sure the programs should've had the one line added already.

But adding the CloseAudioDTR=1 fix is easy and it works.

There are many so-called 'professional' NLEs on the market that can't edit MPEG video natively as the Ulead programs can.

They work great on the three workstations I have here in my project studio.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

I am not trying to be pointlessley argumentative . If the editor will not handle ALL legal MPEG2 streams , it doesn't work and you keep saying
it's great stuff. I don't understand that

[FOO]

I'm just frustrated at not being able to edit MPEG2.
I'll give the fix a try.

[qlizard]

I find that VS7 is the quickest way to edit mpeg and the smart render works very well. To make sure smart render is working, if you watch the preview screen it remains motionless. if it is moving then rerendering is occuring. If I want more ability I open the VS file in MSP 7 and work with it in that application. One thing I've noticed that helps. I use mpeg2vcr in the "tools" menu to open the resultant mpeg file and fix any gop or audio errors that the "smart rendered" mpeg file may have. this has basically eliminated pixelation that was occuring in the final dvd.

[FOO]

That's pretty good
Use Ulead to edit an MPEG2 and then use an MPEG2 editor
to fix the errors . Too funny

[Dreath]

Interesting as I use Ulead Video Studio 6 for all my MPEG1 editing. However, I have recently started using MPEG2 format and have encountered an interesting error that maybe someone knows the solution to.

I recently recorded BattleStar Galactica from SciFi in MPEG2 format (352x240 VBR max 3500) using PowerVCR II. I can play it no problems in Real Player and can jump around to any point in the show.
However, when I edited out the commercials using Ulead Video Studio 6 and performed the Smart Render, I got a video that is playable however if I try to jump around to different parts in the show (using the slider bar or the fast forward/reverse buttons) the video will either freeze without sound or go black without sound yet the timer keeps going as though the video is still playing.

Basically, I'm worried that there are a lot of MPEG errors in the edited version of the show. I did the exact same thing to a 5 minute clip of Clone Wars on the cartoon network and in that instance, the edited clip will stop about 3 or 4 minutes into the show for no reason. Running MPEG2VCR tool for fixing MPEG errors (don't know if it works with MPEG2 format) yeilded over 1000 MPEG errors! WTF! Playing the edited clip back in Video Studio shows that after 3 or 4 minutes into the video (where the player would stop) the video was getting real jerky for some reason.

My question is this a problem with Video Studio 6 and smart render? Would upgrading to Video Studio 7 solve this problem? Help please. Thanks!

(system specs: AMD Duron 1.1 GHz, 256megs SDRam, WinXP Pro)

[qlizard]

No, I get the same thing from version 7. You could always download the trial version of 7 and test it. After you use mpeg2vcr to fix the errors does it help at all?

[Dreath]

No, I get the same thing from version 7. You could always download the trial version of 7 and test it. After you use mpeg2vcr to fix the errors does it help at all?

Hmmm, do you get this problem with MPEG2 or do you also get it with MPEG1? So far my MPEG1 files seem to edit ok but I've only just started using MPEG2 format. Is it related to the smart render?

The mpeg2vcr didn't help as there were so many errors that the program just stopped fixing them. Like I said, it found over 1000 MPEG errors. I wonder if MPEG2VCR only works with MPEG1 files and not MPEG2. That might explain it.

[qlizard]

do you get this problem with MPEG2 or do you also get it with MPEG1?

I don't know, I only work with MPEG2.

Is it related to the smart render?

I don't know enough about the mechanics of "smart render" to answer.
Perhaps Jerry Jones could answer as he appears to be the resident expert on ulead products. you could also post in the ulead forum as it is pretty active.

I wonder if MPEG2VCR only works with MPEG1 files and not MPEG2.

It definitely works with MPEG2, but maybe not in the way you are trying to use it. It is strange that it stopped fixing the errors. The files which I "smart render" are typically around 800mb. When I use the GOP fixer they usually contain over 3000 errors. But it goes through and fixes them all. I wasn't experiencing the problems you were having. I was mainly having pixilation and jumpy transitions which this method seems to have fixed. Again, I have no idea about what it is actually doing to help you out much. I just know it worked for me. Perhaps one of the actual knowledgeable people in this forum will chime in.

[Dreath]

Correction, it wasn't MPEG2VCR I was using but some other tool from here that does fix MPEG errors, can't remember it's name right now.

I betting it's only for MPEG1 formats. Oh well. I might have to start recording stuff in AVI format, edit it, and then dump it to MPEG2.

Problem is, how much hard drive space do I need to record 4 hours at 352x240 stereo video? I don't have a lot of spare hard drive space...

[grossjamesh]

cazeek,

I faced the same issues that you are facing. A simple cheap way to reliably cut commericals. I tried all the things that have been mentioned in this thread. I finally went and spent the money for Womble. I sure am glad that I did. So, do yourself a favour and buy Womble.

Here is what I do: Hauppauge WINTV PVR USB2 -> WINTV 2000 ->
MPEG2 file -> Womble for check and edit -> Tmpgenc DVD Author -> RecordNow for writing DVD. Works everytime. There are times whan I may edit a file in Tmpenc but not often.

Hope this is of some help to you.

[Specialist]

I have never encountered any GOP or AUDIO errors in my extensive testing of Ulead's VideoStudio 7.01.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

I use mpeg2vcr in the "tools" menu to open the resultant mpeg file and fix any gop or audio errors that the "smart rendered" mpeg file may have. this has basically eliminated pixelation that was occuring in the final dvd.

[Specialist]

I have never heard of so-called "MPEG errors" in connection with Ulead VideoStudio 6.0.

My extensive testing has been done with Ulead VideoStudio version 7.01, which is the latest version:

http://www.ulead.com/vs/runme.htm

No such so-called "MPEG errors" occur with Smart Rendered MPEGs, in my experience.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

My question is this a problem with Video Studio 6 and smart render? Would upgrading to Video Studio 7 solve this problem? Help please.

[PolarBearWY]

I used ATI's MultiMedia Center to capture my MPEG2. I capture at VBR with PCM audio.

When I use TMPEnc to cut the file, I get an output .MPG with NO AUDIO.

Everyone says Womble is great, but it processes my file. It won't just save it. I start with a 222MB file, cut 8 secs from the beginning and 2 secs from the end, and I end up with a 350MB file. Crap.

My audio and video are PERFECT for what I want. I'd like to be able to cut the ends of my MPG file so I can import it to Adobe Encore DVD and burn the DVD. But if I'm turning a 222MB file (which is perfect) into a 350MB file, I'm losing 35% of the space available on my DVD+R.

Please help. How can I use the cut&merge in TMPEnc and end up with audio? How can I use Womble without having it reprocess my file?

Doh!

[indolikaa]

Womble will always encode LPCM to MP2. Here is the e-mail I received from them regarding this issue...


Hello Anchorage,
This limitation will be removed soon.
Thanks.
--- Chang
Anchorage Khan wrote:

Hello,

I recently downloaded your trial software at the suggestion of lordsmurf.com. I am very happy with it but I have run into a problem, and I would like to know if this is a limitation of the trial software or user error.

Almost exclusively, I capture MPEG-2 video with LPCM audio. However, when I try to edit anything in MPEG-VCR it always wants to convert the audio to Layer-II. I need the material to remain PCM audio.

Thank You,
Anchorage Khan

So Womble is not the solution for PCM users, yet.

What I do is open the MPEG-2 file in VirtualDubMPEG2 and find the timecodes for the various edit points, then do the editing in TMPGEnc. It's a pain, but it ensures my PCM tracks are not transcoded.

[Dreath]

Ok, correction for my previous posts. I downloaded the trial MPEG2VCR program and ran the error checking program. In the original encoded (unedited) BattleStar Galactica MPEG2 (352x240 VBR 3500max) it found over 10,000 GOP time code errors!!!! I guess Ulead Video Studio 6 really isn't the major problem.

I'm using PowerVCR II to record the shows to MPEG2 format. What could cause these errors and what are GOP time code errors?

I might have to record to AVI, then edit, then encode but I don't have the HD space to record a 2 hour AVI show. BTW, does anyone know how much space a 2 hour AVI file takes up at 352x240???

Thanks!

[PolarBearWY]

Thanks for the reply, indolikaa.

I thought I'd go ahead and post what I have come up with. I'm now using MPEG2Cut and it's not too bad. It's simple, and it seems to give me what I want.

But now I have a new problem. I can put my 5 .MPG files into Adobe Encore DVD 1.0 individually and they won't need to be transcoded before the DVD is written. But if I join the 5 .MPG files with EZMerge, suddenly Adobe wants to transcode the .MPG, and that ultimately leads to a file (asset) twice the size as it originally was. Doh!

So... here is what I want to do.

#1 Using ATI MMC 8.7, capture end-of commercial to beginning-of-commercial from DishNetwork PVR at 3.85 Mb/s CBR MPEG-DVD and LPCM audio.

#2 Remove all traces of commercials at beginning and ends of MPGs.

#3 Merge MPGs into one MPG in a way that programs will report proper time and so that Adobe Encore DVD won't need to transcode the MPG before write, meaning that the file remained DVD compliant (I guess).

Please... help! lol. I have tried nearly every suggested program, but most seem to be for SVCDs.

[lordsmurf]

Encore only uses 720x480 MPEG, reason I don't use it ... bought it and I'm actually still pretty pissed off about that

[Milo]

I've tried a LOT of apps to edit/cut/merge/mux/demux MPG2 video and so far the apps from Womble are by FAR the best I've ever used .

There are 2 products : MPEG-VCR and its big brother MPEG Video Wizard,
both trials available at http://www.womble.com/download.htm.

Both let you cut/merge MPEG2 streams on I-Frame WITHOUT re-encoding and (so far) WITHOUT erros (desynch audio etc.)
And it's very FAST, as fast as your drive is (in my case, less than 1 min to process a 3 GB mpeg2 video stream)

They also include tools for mux/demux/change stream type/fix GOP erros.
Video Wizard adds some (poor) video editing features, can manage 1 video and 2 audio streams and let you manually synchronize audio if you need it.

I've once tried TMPGEnc tools but it didnt recognize some of my files (DVB capture MPEG2 video with 2 audio streams) or often gave me many erros in resulting files, or didnt compute the right lenght of movie.

Compare to others apps/tools described here, Video Wizard is the only one that feels "professional", as far as MPEG processing is concerned.

PS: the best to get no error nor desynching when cuting/merging video is to get CLEAN source file.
You can use PVA Strumento to get ride of erros in MPEG files.
Or sometimes, a simple demuxing follow by remuxing -with womble apps- is enough to clean erros in headers.

[PolarBearWY]

Thanks Smurf and Milo.

I guess I will recapture AGAIN with MPG audio and hope that my parent's DVD player will read it. I love this capturing stuff! With every option, there is a gain and loss. How many times will I recapture the same show off my Dish 508? LOL. I've gotta start getting rid of this stuff on there.

Wish I fully understood this stuff though.

Oh hey, Smurf. In another thread, I made a flippant remark about the "extra quality" people get capturing 30 GB/hr AVIs, vs 3 GB/hr MPGs.

Am I not understanding the benefits of AVI, or are those people not considering their original source? If I'm capturing from a Dish Network receiver, which is MPG2, then there are no real benefits to using AVI, right? Thanks.

[lchiu7]

Like most users I am just interested in recording video off TV, removing ads and authoring to DVD. I thought I had it licked with Premiere Pro - recording using a Pinnacle DC10+ card and editing in Premiere Pro (having installed the PicVideo MJPEG codec) and outputting as a DVD using PPro MPEG encoder (which is from Mainconcept) and authoring to DVD using ULEAD DVD MF. It all looked fine. Then I looked at the video more closely. Since I was recording cooking shows for my wife there wasn't video of people talking - mainly pots and pans swirling around so I didn't notice that the video was slowly going out of sync. Having noticed that I tried recording shows with lots of dialogue and sure enough, over 20 minutes the audio goes out by about .5 sec which is pretty annoying.

Then tried something else - encode the entire avi file into MPEG2 format using the Mainconcept MPEG2 encoder and author that. This works fine but of course the ads are still there

Finally tried using Womble to edit out the ads. This sort of works but more often than not (video is recorded as PAL 720x576), once I remove sections from the video and output as a MPEG file, the aspect ratio of the video changes from 4:3 to what looks like 16:9! This is really wierd since if I just take the MPEG, don't edit it and just output it, the AR doesn't change. For some reason Womble is changing the AR

Any ideas?

Thanks

Larry