DUAL LAYER: Both +/- Formats

[Specialist]

http://www.idg.com.sg/idgwww.nsf/unidlookup/DAC6A67C0B1414A248256DBA0025405D?OpenDocument

Both the "-" and the "+" formats.

Jerry Jones
http://www.jonesgroup.net

[mecg]

Good info - thanks Specialist

[Faustus]

Well if the +R guys can get it working with players decently they may finally have a convert here. I buy whoever get this working well first.

[Metaluna]

My prediction is that by the time the media is cheap enough to be useful both camps will have the technology.

[cplevel42]

My prediction is that by the time the media is cheap enough to be useful both camps will have the technology.

Good Point. I won't buy until the media is around $2.00 a peice, and I'm used to paying $1.00 now.

[yg1968]

Most DVD-R and DVD+R discs on the market at present offer a data storage capacity of 4.7G bytes. That's plenty of space for your family snapshots and word processor file backups, but this space gets filled up fast when large multimedia files, such as video clips, are recorded onto the disc.

Yeah. That's right. People want dual layered recordable disks because they have large media files... The authors of the article obviously don't want to tell the thruth. People want Dual layered DVD disks because Holywood DVDs are usually dual layered (i.e. usually around 8 gigs) and therefore could be copied without "shrinking" the DVD files.

[MOVIEGEEK]

The authors of the article obviously don't want to tell the thruth. People want Dual layered DVD disks because Holywood DVDs are usually dual layered (i.e. usually around 8 gigs) and therefore could be copied without "shrinking" the DVD files.

Oh come on that's far fetched,why would anybody do that?

[troyvcd1]

I think that having dual layer dvds would really suck. After all the learning it takes to make a good dvd9 to 5 copy now any tom dick or harry could copy dvds with no problem. Then there wouldnt be half as many reasons to come to dvdrhelp.

[Conquest10]

This will be great. Now I will be able to fit higher quality home movies on a dvd. Or I could just fit twice as much on one disc. DVDs are used for more than just backing up Hollywood movies, you know.

[gmatov]

Troy,
You sound like some of the guys I have worked with in years past. I had to learn this stuff. Why should I train some one to do what I can do?

This is not supposed to be an esoteric subject.. It's the WHOLE damned reason FOR dvdrhelp, to help those who do not know how to make a backup.

What, I know how, you gotta beg me to throw you a bone.

Jeez, lad, everything in the last 20 years has been to get these damn things to where the ordinary user CAN use a computer. We have enough people pissed at the annual influx of "newbies", who have just bought a new machine, maybe because Daddy bought a new machine for them to go to college with, maybe because they just retired and think they would like to try this as a hobby.

Why would you get pissed because they might be able to do it without your help?

Cheers,

George

[troyvcd1]

I am happy to help people out. Hell I am still an amateur and everything Ive learned has come from people helping me out. The idea that someone could just back up a dvd with no learning just takes the whole challenge out of making a dvd backup. If people could just make a 1 to 1 dvd backup everytime then there would be no need for all these cool programs that I have never learned to use like ifoedit, menuedit, dvdshrink, even all those authoring programs would be useless like dvdlab and dvdworkshop unless you are making your own dvds. It is kindof like a sport where if you can win every time then there is no fun in it.

[gmatov]

troy,

It's not a game. It's computers. The whole damned thing about computers is to make them simple enough for a retiree or a new college student,or a kid who just got his first Video capable, read greater than a 486,machine.

Hell's bells,why should anyone be pissed that a single button push can do what we might have taken 3 or 4 days to learn.. With help, I might add. Very few people here have done this without at least a whole bunch oe lurking, and most have asked a ton of questions.

The hell of it is, after they learn, they think they are so smart that anyone who asks the same questions is stupid.

[glorfindel02]

Am I correct in assuming most older burners/recorders wont be able to write dual layer and that new hardware will be required to take advantage of this?
So, buying a DVD Recording deck now is problematic unless the technology in the drive is forward-looking enough to anticipate the dual later discs.

[yg1968]

From what I have read, you will need to buy new hardware. A firmware update will not work.

[MOVIEGEEK]

From what I have read, you will need to buy new hardware. A firmware update will not work.

According to HP and Philips a firmware upgrade "will possibly" work:
www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.asp?RelatedID=4376


I wouldn't hold my breath,look at Sanyos' HD-BURN,no other company is implementing that feature...yet.

[coyote]

According to that article....the firmware upgrade might be available for 8 speed burners. The lower speed burners lasers do not have the intensity to write to the other layer.

It was also interesting to see that they might release a dual layer dvd-recorder as well as a burner in the first half of the year.

[Gazorgan]

Conquest10: Does the world really need you putting 5 hours of home movies on a DVD? Isn't 2+ long enough???

[Metaluna]

From what I have read, you will need to buy new hardware. A firmware update will not work.

According to HP and Philips a firmware upgrade "will possibly" work:
www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.asp?RelatedID=4376

Oh, I think we've heard THAT story before . There are still lawsuits floating around from when HP and Philips said that their +RW-only drives could be updated to +R with a firmware upgrade, then backpedaled.

[vandakeg]

It's not a game. It's computers. The whole damned thing about computers is to make them simple enough for a retiree or a new college student,or a kid who just got his first Video capable, read greater than a 486,machine.

I'm with Troy here, in a sense. To me, converting DVD9 to DVD5 has become more of a hobby than anything else. Learning how dvds work (vobs, ifos, title sets etc...) is just part of that hobby.

Back when burners first came out, and "shrinking" was still in it's infancy, you really had to dig in, and figure out exactly how a dvd worked, in order to be able to know how to take out what you didn't need.

Maybe I'm crazy, but i get a sense of satisfaction knowing that i know more about dvds than the average joe.

That being said, I definitely don't think dual layer burners is going to be bad for "shrinking" as a hobby. It's just gonna challenge people like me to fit 2 or 3 movies onto one dual layer disc... which will bring new things to learn.... like creating a root menu for the disc, providing navigation for the shrunk movies and their menus.... man... i can't wait!

[RAAGAAman]

According to that article....the firmware upgrade might be available for 8 speed burners. The lower speed burners lasers do not have the intensity to write to the other layer.

Looks like the +RW alliance left the door open for the -R/RW guys to walk through. If they can have a FW upgrade for older drives to support Dual layer DVD-R9 then they will keep a lot of users in their corner. Of course the big question is "when will DVD-R9 coming?"

RG

[yg1968]

Existing DVD+R recorders won't write to either layer of the new dual-layer discs, but Driessen hel[d] out the hope for possible software upgrades, possibly combined with an IC change, to make it possible for current 8x DVD+R recording drives to write to both layers. The lasers of recorders with slower writing speeds lack the intensity to write to the semitransparent top layer or to the lower layer, Driessen said.

I was mistaken but the quote is hardly re-assuring. It says that they are "holding hope" that a firmware upgrade could work for 8x drives.

What is an IC change?

[kabanero]

What is an IC change?

IC - Integrated Circuit - hardware chip.

[red lion]

Im happy with the quality of my movie only discs just now so this extra storage will let me still do movie only but i will be able to put 2 movies (good quality) on one disc
this will compensate for the discs being more expensive as they will be
and if i decide i want extras i have that choice also

[spudz2]

I think the concern at first is going to be media quality! Hell, many companies (all be it the cheapies) still haven't got the single layer dvd media 100% reliable, so throw in a dual layer situation and you never know what your gonna get.

Of course I hope the quality is good right from the get go but I wouldn't be suprised if they were issues at the beginning with quality..

Spudz

[yg1968]

What is an IC change?

IC - Integrated Circuit - hardware chip.

Thanks Kabanero.

P.S. I hate acronyms... (especially the ones that I don't understand...)

[yg1968]

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