VHS -> DVD (compression)

[clear]

Hello,
I'm new to making my own DVDs, although I've been burning VCDs for a while, so I'm quite familiar with the necessary software.

Right now I'm backing up a lot of my old VHS tapes onto DVD, and since they're such low quality, it seems like a waste only fitting 2 hours or so per DVD. Is there any way I can around 5/6 hours per disc?

I'm recording in VirtualDub at 720x480, encoding with TMPGenc and authoring with Ulead Moviefactory.

So far, I've tried putting the bitrate down to 750 or so in TMPGenc, but the results are almost unwatchable. I've also heard about DVD Shrink, but I'm not sure that it applies to what I need to do since it only opens IFO files, not ISO.

Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

[ktton]

The best thing to do is to go out and get yourself a standalone dvd-recorder. Most standalone recorders can record up to 6 hour.

[Gregg]

Hi,

750 is not even a VCD bitrate! You should go for at least 2500 or up to 4000 depending on what you want.
Can you explain how do you capture at 720X480 with VirtualDub as I cannot get mine capturing at this resolution? And by the way I don't think you need such high resolution for VHS.

Enjoy!

[Vejita-sama]

For VHS captures there's no need to use the full D1 (720x480) resolution. It's much better to encode to 352x480 (aka 1/2 D1). This allows you to lower the bitrate maintain a high bitrate/pixel ratio. Since you source is VHS (ie. pure interlaced) I wouldn't drop down to 352x240, because losing one field will make a noticable difference in quaility.

A VHS capture encode to 352x480 @ ~300kbit/s or so looks pretty good, IMHO. Audio at 128kbit/s gets you more than 3hrs per disc. I personally wouldn't go below 2520kbit/s (CVD/SVCD standard) but that's me, to each their own

[vhelp]

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In my continued VHS convertsion endeavors 8) I now use 720 x 480 and
my encodes are w/ CQ using such params as:

* min: [900] max: [9800]
* min: [900] max: [5000]
* min: [900] max: [4500] ( <-- Apex AD-1500 max for xSVCD )

I fluctuate w/ the min [n] and max [n] values because I'm in the
experimental stages (again) and I'm having fun figuring out which is the
best or optimum value(s) for a given VHS (usually store bought movies)

Widescreen movies should definately be done w/ 720 x 480, providing you
utilize the 16:9 aspect ratio specs and you are cropping the boarders etc..,
of which is for more advanced users out their.

Only time will tell when I find that right combination of values for the above
params, but I've found these to work out excellent for the last 4 plus months
now. And, I use these params for my:
* Satellite captures (any aspect ratio)
* DV home footage encodes for 16:9 authoring,
* and VHS etc. (4:3 and 16:9 sources)

These work out just great for me.

I don't know where you are in "skills level", but from your 1 post(s) I'd say
you have lots to learn. I just thought I'd jump in ansd share my experience
w/ you and others out their, for reference sake and to let you all know
what VHELP is using these days now :P
Yea, I no longer use 352 x 480 anymores. I've since moved on

Good luck to you all,
-vhelp 2032

[FulciLives]

This may not be a popular opinion but ...

If you have very poor quality VHS as a source ... such as EP/SLP recordings then I suggest using half D1 (352x480 NTSC or 352x576) using a CBR of 5000kbps for speed or if you want to do a 2-pass VBR then try MIN 2000kbps AVG 4000kbps MAX 5000kbps

I've found in my tests that half D1 hits the MAX at around 5000kbps ... doing more than that doesnt' seem to increase quality at all. I have been able to see difference between a CBR of 4000kbps VS a CBR of 5000kbps so although many think that 4000kbps is the MAX for half D1 I think it is 5000kbps (or very close to it).

The trick with MPEG-2 encoding is that the CLEANER the source image the better the encoding. The encoder has to work harder to encode a poor quality video signal. So a very clean source such as a DVD can be re-encoded at a much lower bitrate AND STILL LOOK VERY GOOD than if you have say the exact same movie on EP/SLP VHS because at the same bitrate you will be "wasting" bits trying to encode all the garbage (video noise) in the poor signal.

So if you really want something that will look AT LEAST AS GOOD as your EP/SLP VHS source I suggest using a noise filter such as Convolution3D along with a CBR MAX of 5000kbps at half D1 resolution. If you have the computer speed and HDD room then capture at Full D1 but resize to half D1 when doing the MPEG-2 encoding.

The more video noise in the source the higher the bitrate must be to encode it.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vhelp]

.
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This may not be a popular opinion but ...

All opinion, good or bad or whatever Everyone has opinions, (based on
their experience, equipment, and skills etc) I gave up on arguing long ago
I found it not worth the hassle.


hay FulciLives,

I plumb forgot about the NR process part

Yeah, you gotta add some mixture of NR and Filtering into your encoding
process too.
How much, will depend upon your given setup (in its totallity) ie,

* vcr (wear/tear, age) etc
* vhs tape condition etc
* cables condition and quality
* Source Condition (that you are archiving from)
* capture card
* internal and/or external noise
* codec format
* sw capture app
* frame drops
* fps - 23.976 / 25 fps vs. 30 fps (higher equal's great noise/bitrate/MB's)
* editing: ie, IVTC or De-Interlacing or Interlace encoding
* filtering: ie, filter-chain, and NR (noise reduction) technique
* encoding: above, and also method/technique

Gosh, the list goes on ..hope I didn't miss anything.

Any or all of the above can effect your NR/Filtering, and final result there-of.
The lower your issues (above) the greater are your chances in final quality..
be it bitrate, quality, MB's sizes etc. or a combination/balance between all
the above ingrediants

Hope I didn't leave anything else out.

Yeah, my favorite Filter for VHS source, is vdub's flaXen's VHS.
Others' here like the Convolsions (spelling) or other form of Temporals of
the sorts. But, w/ my favorite one, there is no set value parameter
because every source is different, not to mention the above items. So, I
wouldn't bother pointing out a set of params, other than to start w/ the
default, and work each value out w/ some good old trial'n error hehe :P
Yeah, most people don't like flaXen's VHS, because they feel it's either
too slow or un-trainable. I say, hogwash.., you just gave up on it too soon.
Anyways, I prefer it for other reasons. It has a better temporal method
than all the other popular ones currently in use today (thats just my opinion)

From the desk of,
-vhelp 2033

[FulciLives]

I must say I tried FLAXEN'S VHS FILTER and it did indeed seem impressive but of course I have the same complaints that you already mentioned Vhelp ...

1.) Slow as hell. I don't mind a "slow" encode to get quality but unfortunately my computer is slow. MPEG-2 encoding takes long enough as it is with high motion search etc. My full D1 2-pass VBR encodes using Convolution3D can take as long as 48 hours for a 2 hour source. Of course I just switched mostly now to CCE which is speeding things up but still! When I attempted to use FLAXEN'S VHS FILTER TMPGEnc was reporting soemthing around 60+ hours for a 2 hour source. I never encoded more than short sample clips. This is partly my fault for having a slow computer but really now there is SLOW and there is DEATH RATTLE SLOW!

2.) I have no idea what most of the settings mean with FLAXEN'S VHS FILTER and it doesn't come with a readme guide explaining anything! Also I've never found a guide for it that explains it!

So maybe if I could find a guide or at least SOMETHING that explained the settings it might be usefull.

Well that and I need a much faster computer

- John "FulciLives" Coleman