which is more important? bit setting or dual format?

[IgotZZhere]

I've been thinking that a +- burner is the way to go, but now I'm wondering if we're better off getting a + (only) burner. If we can change the bit setting to make a - player recognize a + DVD, then I'm not sure I see the advantage of getting a dual format.

Both my DVD players (Cyberhome CH500 adn Mintek 2110) play the + format. Would there be any other reason to get - ? Just in case that's the standard that's adopted over time (like Beta/VCR) and I get a new DVD player?

I would think that even if the - standard is adopted (BTW, IMO the + will end up being the standard that gets adopted), how likely am I to want to need the + DVDs in a few years? Mostly, my DVDs will be (by then obsolete) data with a few movies here and there.


I'm looking at + burners for < $100 and I know the NEC duals aren't much more, but they're picky. I'm thinking its better to get a great single format than a so-so dual format.

Comments? Do I have this all wrong?

[Gazorgan]

The 2 big advantages to dual format are:

1) You can burn whatever is available/on-sale.
2) You can burn what works in your player (although you can get an Apex that plays anything for $40).

Everything else comes down to support and warranty.

Personally I'm picking up one of the new NEC dual format units for $116 out the door. It's just hard to beat that price/performance point. Feed it some nice 4x +R Riteks and its off to the races....

[tompika]

I'm a big fan of Ricoh type burners and bitsetting.
Never had compatibility problems.


However I just bought a NEC1300A and helped installing it for a friend this weekend.
Flashed to 1.08 autoreset firmware and burned some Ritek G04 DVD-R and PackardBell DVD+RWs. All play well on two standalones we tried.
We are satisfied so far.

[IgotZZhere]

thanks for the replies.

I'm really interested in the conceptual intellectual question of whether it makes any difference to have a dual format burner if one can make a + appear to be a - via bit setting, thus removing the issue of player compatibility.

I see that there's the issue of media being on sale, but let's assume the sales cover both + and - as that's been my experience. Then, what's the advantage of dual format over bit setting?

Is it all marketing hype?

[StudeBarc]

IgotZZhere,

You pose a question which has been pondered by several people here and in other forums many times.

By using DVDInfoPro and suitable burning software, together with Ricoh burning hardware, the issues of rejection on book-type are nullified. Indeed via DVDInfoPro etc I have proven (to myself at least), in a limited fashion, just what you ponder. I have both a Ricoh and Dual Lite-On burner and to be honest I feel more confident in using "ROM bit-set" +R discs for home movie DVD distribution. Being part of the evolving development of DVDInfoPro has seen the dispelling of myths regarding large differences between + and - formats in a physical player/playability sense. Setting a +R disc as -R book-type gives the same sort of player acceptability as genuine -R discs, subject to media quality. It is well known that -R disc users suffer from available cheap media issues, but the question is more complex when same media/software with different burner are used. This same relationship of burner/media/software is becoming more prevalent in the +R burning side also, as more manufacturers produce +R discs.

In short you must decide for yourself, but I dare say that a "bit-settable" burner like the Ricoh MP5240 and good quality media (Ricoh, MCC) produces a very acceptable and playable resulting disc. Save some money and buy cheap -R media and a Pioneer A06 and you may well get the same results in your own situation......Ponder some more.

Regards
Studebarc 8)

[videobruce]

Why would you have to change these bit settings other than a problem with the drive reading the media? If that is the case, wouldn't that mean trouble down the road?

[tompika]

Why would you have to change these bit settings other than a problem with the drive reading the media? If that is the case, wouldn't that mean trouble down the road?

"Some players report a disc error when a disc is loaded that is not marked as a "DVD-ROM" or "DVD-R/W" disc in the compatibility bits. Ususally, these players are physically able to read the disc (since DVD+RW reflectivity is identical to that of a dual layered DVD-Video disc, which all players must be capable of reading), but their compatibility problems are due to different interpretations of these bits in the various firmware versions. In most cases, the problem can be solved by updating the firmware.

When a firmware fix is unavailable, or when you want to increase changes of playability when you give the disc to others with an unknown player, you could solve the issue by marking the DVD+R or DVD+RW disc as a DVD-ROM disc."

[IgotZZhere]

thanks for the info everyone. I like the idea of going with a + burner. I personally don't think that - will get too far, but hmm.. I have a betamax in the garage so maybe I should bet the other way.... Probably a A06 is in my future, or maybe a plex if I can get a hot deal on it.

[busterw]

When a firmware fix is unavailable, or when you want to increase changes of playability when you give the disc to others with an unknown player, you could solve the issue by marking the DVD+R or DVD+RW disc as a DVD-ROM disc."

You just hit on something here I'm a little curious about. I'll be taking home movies and putting them on dvd for folks. Obviously I have no clue what players they'll be using and want the best compatibility I can achieve. I'm using an e80 which only burns -r, -rw, and -ram. Will bit setting concept work in my situation to set the dvd-r, dvd-rw or dvd-ram as a dvd-rom so I can get the best result? If so, are there dvd burners that can read dvd-ram drives that can do what you're talking about? Let me know if I'm not udnerstanding this process right as I'm trying to learn.

Thanks!

[tompika]

Its about "plus" medias.

The booktype is pre-recorded on "minus" discs and can not be changed.
They don't need it anyway.

[rebarlow]

I have a betamax in the garage so maybe I should bet the other way.... :)

Tell me about it- I just threw away over 400 Beta tapes....

That's why I hedged with a dual burner.

[busterw]

I see. Well that sux for me. I was hoping I had come across something. Thanks for the quick and helpful response.

[goldmember1]

Just bought a Ricoh MP5240A burner it comes with it’s own bitsetting software this is my second Ricoh & burned using Dvd-Rom book it will play in everything.

[Gil T Pleasure]

Over at the dvdplusrw.org forum, someone asked, "why don't the manufacturers just set the DVD+R/RW to DVD-ROM by default?"

The HP burners and Philips recorders already set DVD+R to DVD-ROM by default so it would make sense to set the DVD+RW to DVD-ROM as well, don't you think? We all want maximum compatibility, right?

[Gil T Pleasure]

I believe the actual question was:

Originally posted by Loobster
I don't know why manufacturers of DVD+ drives even bother to allow bitsetting. Why not just burn DVD+R as DVD-Rom by default? Why would you need bitsetting then?

http://www.dvdplusrw.org/cgi/forum/ikonboard.cgi?s=d2f7e98cabf4b619a8e3fd0194780824;ac...=10#entry54240

[tompika]

Over at the dvdplusrw.org forum, someone asked, "why don't the manufacturers just set the DVD+R/RW to DVD-ROM by default?"

The HP burners and Philips recorders already set DVD+R to DVD-ROM by default so it would make sense to set the DVD+RW to DVD-ROM as well, don't you think? We all want maximum compatibility, right?

Or just get the information from the manufacturers where that bit is located then change it with a hexeditor and flash the hacked version back.

Any of you have friends at Plextor's?

[jgandara]

I bougth a dual format for 2 reasons:
+ You can get cheaper media (DVD-R is the cheapest)
+ You can get dual side DVD's (DVD-R)
+ Compatibility. Most recent DVD players like the DVD+R, most like the DVD-R. I have one that likes both.
+ I'm not sure about this one, but DVD-R is more oriented for backup data, and DVD+R is more for video.

Maybe you can get a cheaper DVD+, but the media is more expensive, just check the prices.

I just got a Plextor 708a and it works great. I upgraded from an HP (I paid 600 two years ago), it worked fine, but it only supported DVD+RW.

[-jsl-]

The HP burners and Philips recorders already set DVD+R to DVD-ROM by default so it would make sense to set the DVD+RW to DVD-ROM as well, don't you think? We all want maximum compatibility, right?

That's not really a good idea because there are some DVD players that only play a DVD+RW when it has the "correct" book type. The reason is that some DVD players get confused when you insert a DVD+RW with DVD-ROM book type because the disc is only single layer but has the same low reflectivity as a pressed dual layer DVD.

[lordsmurf]

I'm not sure about this one, but DVD-R is more oriented for backup data, and DVD+R is more for video.

You've got it flipped, and anyway, it no longer applies. That was the original intent, not the current one. DVD+R abandoned data-only in the early days, though that is the sole reason for DVD-Video problems in the early days of that format. Not so bad anymore.

[MOVIEGEEK]

Take a look at the NU tech DDW-081 it will burn 8x with DVD+R AND....(it's a big one)......it allows bitsetting.
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=184895&highlight=
It cost $155USD http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=174502

Anybody want to buy a slightly used Optorite DD0203?

[tompika]

That's not really a good idea because there are some DVD players that only play a DVD+RW when it has the "correct" book type. The reason is that some DVD players get confused when you insert a DVD+RW with DVD-ROM book type because the disc is only single layer but has the same low reflectivity as a pressed dual layer DVD.

Personally I've never met one.
Maybe because I don't use DigitalMatrix, CMC, SKC, etc.....?