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  1. Does anyone know FOR CERTAIN what the maximum Dish Network horizontal resolution is? I have heard it is 480 but I have also heard it is higher for movies and sports.

    Anyone know without question?

    Thanks
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  2. Well I have been checking every source I can find and no one seems to know the horizontal resolution of Dish Network. Most seem to think it is 480.

    I was reading through my DVD Demystified book and they say that many DVD players only output in 480.

    It also gives some other horizontal resolutions:
    240 VHS
    335 NTSC Broadcast (converted from analog)
    400 S-VHS, Hi8
    425 Laserdisk

    So 480 is not all that bad when compared to these formats.

    The reason that I think this is very important is that one cannot get a higher resolution than the source. When capturing it is probably useful because of the subsequent manipulation. For final rendering to a file there is no point in going above the source unless one wants to stay in the official DVD format.

    Since the screen is wider than taller it seems that it should have more resolution. Perhaps this goes back to the individual scan lines on TVs. They were trying to make the scan lines less noticable while the horizontal was OK with a smaller resolution because it was analog and there were no gaps.

    ???
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  3. Originally Posted by neo
    Does anyone know FOR CERTAIN what the maximum Dish Network horizontal resolution is? I have heard it is 480 but I have also heard it is higher for movies and sports.

    Anyone know without question?

    Thanks
    Dish uses 480x480. I took me months to get to the high end tech people at dish to get that info.
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  4. Thanks a bunch. I have been trying for months but could never get anyone at tech support who knew.

    After looking at the other resolutions, 480 is not bad. I think I will render in 480x480. This will allow be to improve the other aspects of quality and/or get a smaller file.

    neo
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  5. Interesting, 480x480 sounds an awful lot like SVCD...
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  6. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    My sources at DISH and several tech documents on their variation of DVB confirmed 480x480. However, some people have reported recent changes that allow 640x480 on pay per views. I've also heard other random resolutions, but I'm pretty confident in my sources on DISH.

    Same for DirecTV. Pretty confident in my sources and tech documents. Those are mostly 544x480 with 352x480 for lower channels and locals.
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  7. Originally Posted by indolikaa
    Interesting, 480x480 sounds an awful lot like SVCD...

    I do not know what the SVCD specifications are but this is just the resolution. I also wanted no loss of quality and no spacial or motion artifacts. I am using TMPGEnc to encode the captured and edited DV AVI. TMPGEnc is the only encoder where I have been able to get small file sizes with no quality loss (I use MPEG-2). I store on external hard disks (250 GB). I am running about 10 MB/min or 1.3 GB for a 135 min movie (135 min is the DVD standard because 90% of movies are < 135 min. The average movie is less.)
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    Check with the dishrip folks. Most of the stuff is 544x480 with some premium programs at 640x480. Audio is 192kbps mp2. Bitrate is highly variable (due to stat muxing), but usually averages between 2mbps and 3mbps.
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  9. After reading https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=173738 I think dishnetwork is 544x480 for the most part and 640x480 for movies. So maybe Directv is 480x480?
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  10. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dvdnew
    After reading https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=173738 I think dishnetwork is 544x480 for the most part and 640x480 for movies. So maybe Directv is 480x480?
    No. DirecTV is 544x480, always has been. DISH used to be 480x480, even just a few months back, but it may have changed.
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  11. However, it depends on just what sort of a signal you are getting to your capture card. The satellite company may only be transmitting 480 but I bet your satellite receiver is outputting 720. Therefore its pointless trying to reduce this resolution back to 480, only for your DVD player to expand it back out to 720! All that re-sizing will only reduce the final picture quality. If you are feeding your capture card with a 720 frame size, then encode your final output as 720.
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  12. Since we are talking horizontal resolution, I will stay with that number. According to DVD Demystified many DVD players output in 480. I expect that Dish Network receivers output in 480.

    In any any case I use DV AVI 720 for capture and editing. It is only for the final render that I bring it back to 480. Saving in 720 would be a waste of space that could be used for other aspects of the picture and smaller file size. I think the greater resolution is useful for working on the video because any loss is kept to a minimum. We can not get a higher resolution than the source so the final render is in 480. I cannot see the difference.

    If I had Direct TV then I would render in their resolution. I used to have Direct TV and did notice the quality drop when I changed. Unfortunately, they would not offer UPN and WB at the time.
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  13. The problem doesn't arise from the capturing, its from all that re-sizing. And I doubt if any DVD players output at 480x576. They would all have to upscale to 720x576 as this is what TV sets require. If you are going to do lowers resolution discs then go for 352 as your horizontal as it least this is compatible with the DVD spec - 480/528/544 isn't.
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  14. I agree if you are going to produce DVDs. Keep the resolution at max.

    I am not doing that. I am am forming files to be stored on a 250 GB external hard drive so I have my library at my fingertips. The files will be played on my monitor. My application is a little unusual.
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  15. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by energy80s
    satellite receiver is outputting 720
    Output is analog. That's why you have a receiver in the first place. If the tv took digital, we'd plug in directly.

    Capturing max resolution is pointless if your source was below it. Of course, this is also dependant on the quality of your capture card and software. Some just plain cannot handle anything but 720x480 without giving bad results (AVerMedia) while others excel (ATI AIW) at non-Full-D1 size.
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  16. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    No. DirecTV is 544x480, always has been. DISH used to be 480x480, even just a few months back, but it may have changed.
    Found a guide about ripping the video from a Directivo unit, that unit records directly without re-encoding (much like the dishplayer) and in that site they say that the video is 480x480. You can't record OTA with it and you can't change the resolution, because is recording directly.
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    Originally Posted by dvdnew
    Found a guide ....you can't change the resolution, because is recording directly.
    Please share. Also, many PVR are notorious for changing res on you.
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  18. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Please share. Also, many PVR are notorious for changing res on you.
    AFAIK the integrated units (sat-pvr) do not change anything. Do a google search for: Tivo to DVDR. Look for 480 and there is that all video from directivo is 480x480. I guess you can change normal Tivo resolution for best, medium and low, but can't for directivo.
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  19. Technical Jargon:

    http://www.coolstf.com/mpeg/#scpcmcpc

    Dish Network info included about 1/4 down the page. In sample screen shots.


    BG
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  20. Member SHS's Avatar
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    lordsmurf is 100% rigth DirecTV is 544x480 where DishNetwork is 480x480.
    DirecTV may have better PQ but DishNetwork has better services in long run which dosen't carp out as much when there bad weather.
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  21. Weird, then why Directv powered by Tivo receivers record at 480x480 and dishnetwork dishplayer record at 544x480?
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  22. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    TIVO units do not necessarily represent the data being sent, but rather record in their own PVR/DVR/TIVO/UTV/etc format.
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  23. "lordsmurf" You have Dish would you say last year the picture on dish was alot more blocky and now it's much better. I have a Dish 301. I think Dish is software encoding and the send update's and then the picture was alot better. even better then DTV and DTV was better before but now Dish is better.

    lordsmurf What's your favorite Channel to record cartoon's? I'm a cartoon nut to LOL
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  24. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    TIVO units do not necessarily represent the data being sent, but rather record in their own PVR/DVR/TIVO/UTV/etc format.
    So you think the Directv receivers powered by Tivo do have an encode chip fast/good enough to compress the data without any loss? I can't see any difference in a regular Directv unit and a Tivo powered, and with the Tivo one you always watching the recording, that's why you can pause/rewind "live tv".
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  25. Member FulciLives's Avatar
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    Well in most cases here you are capturing ANALOG video. It may be digital but it goes to a DIGITAL RECEIVER that has ANALOG A/V outputs and it is these outputs that connect to your computer's capture device.

    So no matter WHAT the original transmission is be it 352x480 or 480x480 or 640x480 or whatever ...

    It would seem to me that you are best to capture at Full D1 and THEN resize to something less when re-encoding (if you don't want Full D1 in the end) ... unless you capture DIRECT to MPEG-2 then for DVD creation you would either use 720x480 or 352x480

    I only do DVD now and I only use 720x480 for capturing but sometimes I will resize to 352x480 for the final DVD depending on the source.

    Also 480x480 is not a valid DVD resolution. I think you are better using 352x480 on a DVD than using 480x480 SVCD spec. Although 352x480 is a slightly lower resolution it IS a DVD standard resolution and when doing that on DVD you can use much higher bitrates (without compatability problems) than the standard 2520Kbps that SVCD uses.

    So in short you either make a 2520kbps 480x480 SVCD or you do a Half D1 DVD which is 352x480 but you can then use a much HIGHER bitrate than 2520 and get more on a single DVD than you can on a single SVCD CD-R disc.

    For instance ... I'd rather have a DVD complaint 352x480 resolution with a 3500kbps to 4000kbps bitrate than a 480x480 2520kbps bitrate SVCD.

    Which do you THINK would look better? No doubt the half D1 DVD.

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  26. Directivo and UltimateTV do not have mpeg encoders.

    The broadcast can be changed to whatever resolution that they want as long as the broadcast encoders can send it and the stb decoder can handle it. Directv transport/mpeg is not compliant to DVB, Dish is.

    In practice, the resolutions rarely change, but you cannot assume that the resolution you see at any time will be the same in the future on any channel.
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  27. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by spiderman2k1
    "lordsmurf" You have Dish would you say last year the picture on dish was alot more blocky and now it's much better. I have a Dish 301. I think Dish is software encoding and the send update's and then the picture was alot better. even better then DTV and DTV was better before but now Dish is better.

    lordsmurf What's your favorite Channel to record cartoon's? I'm a cartoon nut to LOL
    I have DirecTV here and several friends have DISH, so I see them all. At one point, we all had separate system, thank DirecTV and DISH mergers for condensing everything. The problem now is they are adding too much crap to the transponders and bandwidth limitations are forcing lower bitrates. Not a good move on their part. I'm considering cable again. Plus all their anti-piracy info in the datastream is hitting legit customers, another thing I'm starting to get irritated at. And the rain=nothing scenario is frustrating.

    I'm mostly recording Saturday morning from WB and FOX BOX (locals) and then Saturday night from CN.

    For the most part, cartoons that I like are getting lesser and lesser. X-MEN Evolution ended last week and several other show I watch are nearing the end (for good, not just the season). All long runs, but I'll miss them.

    Cartoon Network might as well be The Anime Network. I like Big O, Trigun and Gundam Wing, but thats about all. I remember when CN had real cartoons, back on C-band satellite on T-7 I think. They have a lot of 80s and 90s toons they could show and still generate an audiance AT LEAST as big as the anime crowd, if not larger. Transformers alone would outnumber DBZ fans. If they need anime so bad, make an Anime Network and get the DBS system to carry it too (I'm sure they will). Then they can release good anime like Slayers and Tylor, as well as old 70s and 80s japanime movies.

    Boomerang might as well the The Hanna Barbera Archive Channel. I like HB, but they have a horrible schedule problem (shows NEVER on time) and it's the same stuff. There are MANY Smurfs and Superfriends shows that never make it to air. Some of the oldest HB toons should just stay in the vault or have a direct DVD release for the few people that may actually enjoy them.

    Toon Disney is showing the same shows over and over again, and I've gotten all I want from it. All the new shows are kid garbage. I can't knock them for showing Ducktales and all. Although it is annoying that certain episodes are never aired. There are at least 2 Ducktales, and 1 Tale Spin show that are not aired, reasons unknown. It would be nice to have Mousterpiece Theatre back and all the other 80s collections of classic Mickey toons.

    Neither DISH nor DIRECTV use a DVB spec, but rather close appoximates. DIRECTV calls theirs DSS. DISH was DVB-II or something, I forget. As far as the TIVO units, I plan to look into it when I find time, but as of right now, understand that what you see on the hard drive and what is on the stream for playback are not necessarily the same thing. How? I don't know. Why? I don't know. Is it true? Yes, and when I find out the how and why, I'll get back to you. There are many variables in digital satellite, not just a few constants like the naysayers are imagining.

    As far as which looks best, DTV or DISH, flip a coin. I see things in both streams that piss me off. DISH used to be worse, now DTV is where DISH once was. DISH doesn't appear much different. They each have their own issues on quality. I see mosquito noise in DISH signals and macroblocks on DTV signals right now. Both due to squeezing too much along the datastream.
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  28. According to sources close to Indolikaa's Ranch...

    Dish Network is 480 x 480, 'generally speaking'

    DirecTV? That depends on the programming, but 'generally speaking'

    544x480 - General resolution reserved for most channels
    544x480 - The Golf Channel

    480x480 - NY/LA Feeds of ABC/CBS/FOX/NBC/PBS
    480x480 - Sports Channels in the 600 Range

    352x480 - Most local channels
    352x480 - FOX Sports World

    ???x480 - PPV and Special Programming.

    ??? is supposedly a trade secret. However, my source says DirecTV uses between 544x480 and 720x480 depending on the content. Really, are we so concerned about the actions of King Charlie that we must keep this kind of information secret?

    Now just how did someone as brain-dead as Indolikaa come up with this information...

    A) My former address was in Cheyenne, Wyoming,
    B) My paychecks were once signed by Lockheed Martin,
    C) My presence at Baikonur Cosmdrome, Kazakhstan on 8 May 1998,
    D) hAck hAck crAck

    Long live the Digital Sky Highway!

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  29. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    As far as the TIVO units, I plan to look into it when I find time, but as of right now, understand that what you see on the hard drive and what is on the stream for playback are not necessarily the same thing. How? I don't know. Why? I don't know. Is it true? Yes, and when I find out the how and why, I'll get back to you.
    This is an interesting comment. But without some more info, it doesn't really make sense.

    You are saying that the frame size, bitrate, gop, whatever are different when you playback from the hard drive than if you watch the live feed.

    Why do you think this is true? Not why they do it or how they do it, but did someone in the know tell ya?

    The live feed is better than the recording on the DVR? Well that's a rotten trick...
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  30. Slightly off topic:

    I have noticed the programs on DTV have more artifacts than some of the commercials. In fact TechTV right now look like a bad WMV file with some of the cuts between the hosts.
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