Canopus ADVC-100 supporters - make your voice heard !!!

[Blkout]

Color saturation is not really an issue for me anyway since I usually adjust that in TMPGEnc when encoding.

Could you give me a tip as to how you do that?
Thanks
Will

Sure, just open your file like you normally would when you encode it and click on "other settings", then click the "advanced" tab, then check "custom color correction" and then double click on it and open it up. Click "add" at the bottom of the screen and then click on the drop down box "mode" and add whichever color properties you want to adjust, for color saturation, choose "saturation" from the drop down box and then adjust the sliders as needed. If you want to adjust more than one color property, just click the "add" button again and choose the next property you want to adjust.

Sounds complicated but its not.

[pb]

In my last post I edited in the following comment:

Some people have said that the almost identical DataVideo DAC-100 appears to have more natural color than the Canopus ADVC-100
Could it be that the DataVideo DAC-100 is "identical" but uses a different DV codec that doesn't have the "red pull" that the Canopus DV codec has? Hmmm very interesting don't you think?

I started thinking about this some more and I've heard that sometimes the DV codec installed on the computer can make a difference in quality so I wonder how true that is and if someone can get slightly different results from the Canopus ADVC-100 based on the DV codec(s) they have installed on their computer?

Anyways now I'm thinking it could be that the DataVideo uses a different codec in hardware and/or it could be the few people who have used it and said it had better color were using a different (non Canopus) DV codec on their computer.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

I may have misinterpreted your post, but I don't understand how a codec can affect captures through the ADVC100. Its a hardware encoder, the output to the PC via firewire is a file transfer, no codecs involved on the PC side, untl you edit and render to DV avi, Mpeg 2 etc.

Maybe displaying DV files on the PC uses a codec, but I have never had problems using any video editing software on my PC to display the files, or play back. All my colours look good. If you look at the properties of a captured DV file from a ADVC100 it should show what format its in, and maybe a codec used. i cannot confirm this as I have no captured analogue clips on my PC at present

[Blkout]

In my last post I edited in the following comment:

Some people have said that the almost identical DataVideo DAC-100 appears to have more natural color than the Canopus ADVC-100
Could it be that the DataVideo DAC-100 is "identical" but uses a different DV codec that doesn't have the "red pull" that the Canopus DV codec has? Hmmm very interesting don't you think?

I started thinking about this some more and I've heard that sometimes the DV codec installed on the computer can make a difference in quality so I wonder how true that is and if someone can get slightly different results from the Canopus ADVC-100 based on the DV codec(s) they have installed on their computer?

Anyways now I'm thinking it could be that the DataVideo uses a different codec in hardware and/or it could be the few people who have used it and said it had better color were using a different (non Canopus) DV codec on their computer.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

I may have misinterpreted your post, but I don't understand how a codec can affect captures through the ADVC100. Its a hardware encoder, the output to the PC via firewire is a file transfer, no codecs involved on the PC side, untl you edit and render to DV avi, Mpeg 2 etc.

Maybe displaying DV files on the PC uses a codec, but I have never had problems using any video editing software on my PC to display the files, or play back. All my colours look good. If you look at the properties of a captured DV file from a ADVC100 it should show what format its in, and maybe a codec used. i cannot confirm this as I have no captured analogue clips on my PC at present

Apparently the DV codec is not an issue when transferring DV, but it is an issue when capturing analog.

[Will Hay]

Does it matter which codec is used when capturing anaolgue via the ADVC?
What I mean is (and considering I'm familiar with the MJPEG PicVideo and nothing much else) will one codec significantly affect the 'capture' when compared to another, considering I'm using the ADVC and the work is done within the unit itself?
Will

[Blkout]

Does it matter which codec is used when capturing anaolgue via the ADVC?
What I mean is (and considering I'm familiar with the MJPEG PicVideo and nothing much else) will one codec significantly affect the 'capture' when compared to another, considering I'm using the ADVC and the work is done within the unit itself?
Will

When capturing analog, you're comparing the MJPEG codec to the DV codec which is far more compressed than huffyuv or MJPEG on the higher settings.

[FulciLives]

I may have misinterpreted your post, but I don't understand how a codec can affect captures through the ADVC100. Its a hardware encoder, the output to the PC via firewire is a file transfer, no codecs involved on the PC side, untl you edit and render to DV avi, Mpeg 2 etc.

Maybe displaying DV files on the PC uses a codec, but I have never had problems using any video editing software on my PC to display the files, or play back. All my colours look good. If you look at the properties of a captured DV file from a ADVC100 it should show what format its in, and maybe a codec used. i cannot confirm this as I have no captured analogue clips on my PC at present

I really don't know. I don't have the Canopus ADVC-100 nor any DV device so I have only worked with analog captures (using HuffyUV and PICVideo MJPEG) so my on-hands experience with DV is zilch.

I'm repeating some stuff that I have heard. You might be correct that the DV codec you use on the computer does not affect the transfer to the computer but only subsequent save and reload etc.

I just don't know.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Will Hay]

Does it matter which codec is used when capturing anaolgue via the ADVC?
What I mean is (and considering I'm familiar with the MJPEG PicVideo and nothing much else) will one codec significantly affect the 'capture' when compared to another, considering I'm using the ADVC and the work is done within the unit itself?
Will

When capturing analog, you're comparing the MJPEG codec to the DV codec which is far more compressed than huffyuv or MJPEG on the higher settings.

So, are you saying there's no reason why I can't use the PicVideo (say 19/20) instead f the DV codec I used within Pinnacle?
Or am I missing the point?
Thinking about it, surely that would be crazy as I'd be dropping quality for no reason, right?
Will

[FulciLives]

So, are you saying there's no reason why I can't use the PicVideo (say 19/20) instead f the DV codec I used within Pinnacle?
Or am I missing the point?
Thinking about it, surely that would be crazy as I'd be dropping quality for no reason, right?
Will

I think when you "capture" with the Canopus ADVC-100 you have to use a DV codec because the analog video is actually being converted to DV inside the Canopus ADVC-100 and then merely being transfered to the computer via the FIREWIRE aka IEEE 1394 connection.

However I have read some posts that have indicated that your choice of DV codec (on the computer) might ... and I stress might ... affect things.

Also to throw a monkey wrench into the whole thing I have heard that it is possible to capture direct to MPEG-2 with the Canopus ADVC-100 if you use the somwhat new version of MainConcepts MPEG Encoder which has a capture section built-into it now. However my understanding is you will need a VERY fast computer since this is real time software MPEG-2 encoding. Other than saving time I doubt this method is recommended.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[rhegedus]

The Canopus automatically outputs DV, so any changes after that would still be dependant on what you started off with i.e. DV.

I think IUVCR allows you to capture from the Canopus in different formats, but I'm not sure how good it is at converting DV on the fly.

[proxyx99]

After a year of using ADS Instant DVD (MPEG2 capture) as well as Navis Pro i switched to DAC-100. For a few practical reasons:
1. most likely my movies will not end up on movie theater screen so with regard to quality I judge it on a 25inch Sony for PAL and 32 inch Sony for NTSC. For preview I use 14 inch multisystem Sony. On all 3 DAC-100 "looks" better, richer. I do not aspire to get the best quality in the industry.
2. Been fed up with MPEG2 softening of the picture (always "milkier" then the source, known issue
3. artifacting in MPEG2, especially fast pan or single color still frame screen where MPEG2 always looks for "shortcuts" unless u spend over 2 grand on hardware
4. editing in MPEG2 is a no-no, sync issues, slow preview, forget real-time unless u have dedicated MPEG2 hardware (costly)
5. re-rendering MPEG2 after edit further degrades detail and chroma
6. conversion to either diff. system like PAL or diff. format is not easy with MPEG2 (although it works of course), I prefer DV
7. working with MPEG2 has only 1 advantage - size, nothing else. All the rest is a nightmare.
8. DAC-100 is portable, huge advantage, can capture on my laptop as well
9. firewire, a real joy, no extra drivers, software, IRQ and resource issues
10. extreme ease of use, DV goes with any software, any platform, no more questions, can I open it or no (?) etc., can use something like Movie Maker for DV capture and a ton of other free stuff.
11. no sync issues, period
12. best picture, excellent contrast, rich color, clear and natural and detail (!!!)
13. cheap and always compatible with any app I chose
14. editing DV is a breeze, realtime feeling, no quality loss
15. working with DV is easy, lots of application to choose from
16. size is not an issue, my 420 Gig's is enough for now (HD's are getting cheaper from week to week)

Summarizing, I would not go back to MPEG2 even though I've solved all problems listed above so I could really enjoy MPEG2 editing. If my wife can see a difference, then there's gotta be something to it.
I'm facing a big job of recapturing some of my old tapes as picture quality is much improved comp. to MPEG2 capture. I see details I was missing before.
Finally, I've had a chance to compare output from the same footage captured with several semi-pro solutions incl. Canopus Amber to DAC-100 and I know, this quality would cost me easy 10x to 20x more in MPEG2 hardware. Considering freedom I have choosing a tool to work with as well as encoder options I know that this has been the best spent 179 bucks I invested in video hardware.

[DaveS]

I think IUVCR allows you to capture from the Canopus in different formats, but I'm not sure how good it is at converting DV on the fly.

ADVC-100 --> iuVCR on p4 2mhz w/ mjpeg @ 19 ==. ~60% CPU

to the best of my recollection

[Blkout]

Does it matter which codec is used when capturing anaolgue via the ADVC?
What I mean is (and considering I'm familiar with the MJPEG PicVideo and nothing much else) will one codec significantly affect the 'capture' when compared to another, considering I'm using the ADVC and the work is done within the unit itself?
Will

When capturing analog, you're comparing the MJPEG codec to the DV codec which is far more compressed than huffyuv or MJPEG on the higher settings.

So, are you saying there's no reason why I can't use the PicVideo (say 19/20) instead f the DV codec I used within Pinnacle?
Or am I missing the point?
Thinking about it, surely that would be crazy as I'd be dropping quality for no reason, right?
Will

No, as stated above, you have to use the DV codec, there are no other choices, but if you use an analog capture card, you have many choices of codecs.

[Will Hay]

Also to throw a monkey wrench into the whole thing I have heard that it is possible to capture direct to MPEG-2 with the Canopus ADVC-100 if you use the somwhat new version of MainConcepts MPEG Encoder which has a capture section built-into it now. However my understanding is you will need a VERY fast computer since this is real time software MPEG-2 encoding. Other than saving time I doubt this method is recommended.

I've just tested this with my ADVC and Pinnacle Studio 8.10 and it seems to have worked fine, imported into Ulead Movie Factory with no problems (although I haven't tested the results on a standalone yet but from PC playback I'm surprised how good it looks).
You're gonna ask me the settings now, aren't you?
Will

EDIT: I take it back, it's edited after capture, but still a quicker process, by far it seems.
I'll do some comparisons to TMPGEnc.

[SLICK RICK]

I have captured directly to MPEG-2 via my ADVC-100 using Ulead DVD Movie Factory 2, created a menu and burned to dvd. It looks fine on my tv playing from my standalone dvd player.

SLICK RICK

[Will Hay]

PowerDVD allows you to play media files and advance frame by frame after you've paused the clip at any point.

I couldn't figure how to do this
Will

[rhegedus]

1 - Step backward (CRTL-B)
2 - Pause (SPACE)
3 - Step forward (T)

Works with mpegs, don't think it works with avis.

[The_Pioneer]

Viewing the DV video in an external monitor from the Premiere Timeline, via the advc outputs, is a huge bonus as far as I'm concerned.

BUT

Macrovision hack on or off, WHY is the recorded sound SO low??? No opportunity for adjustments! That's plain wrong!

Still, I think the Canopus is a great unit and here's why...

Before I knew DVD ripping could be so easy, I would capture a whole movie to my PC from my hi-end standalone DVD player, using the canopus. I'd then convert the DV file to mpeg2 and create a basic dvd (no menus or chapters).

Relevance? Here - I'd play this dvd back on my hi-end standalone player and the picture quality would STILL be better than the majority of bargain/budget players would manage with the original dvd. I tested it out with my friends and they were all pretty damn impressed.


Final thought - I'd never have needed the advc if pinnacle/miro had sorted out the software for the DC30. That card would rival the ADVC any day of the week...if only the software and drivers weren't written by monkeys/donkeys.

[xxiangg]

I have read an cached web page from google about comparison of DAC100
and ADVC100 several months ago. It was in written in Chinese. But
the article was purged now. Because I own neither DAC100 nor ADVC100,
I do not have first hand experience with either one. So I do not know
how accurate for the article.

The article used vectors to measure the color accuracy for each
individual captured color. I think a vector represents shifting amount
for both phase and level. The article claimed that DAC100 color shifting
is within 2% of its original signal. The article said that the accuracy
for DAC100 is good for broadcasting purpose. On the other hand, ADVC100
shown a bigger shifting and the shifting directions for different
colors are different.

After I read the article, I posted an question here, asking if pursuing
accurate color capture is meaningful, assuming you are not to make
multiple generations of captures. But I did not get any answer.

I remember when I was in college, the instructor taught us that color
accuracy for color TV signals are not important for most colors,
except skin tones. So most color measurement signals have two color
regions for skin tones. One is for male skin color and the other is
for female skin color. If this is true, it seems to me that color
accuracy is not important. Am I right?

[Will Hay]

powerDVD

Thanks rhegedus.
Will

[Will Hay]

Color saturation is not really an issue for me anyway since I usually adjust that in TMPGEnc when encoding.

Could you give me a tip as to how you do that?
Thanks
Will

Sure, just open your file like you normally would when you encode it and click on "other settings", then click the "advanced" tab, then check "custom color correction" and then double click on it and open it up. Click "add" at the bottom of the screen and then click on the drop down box "mode" and add whichever color properties you want to adjust, for color saturation, choose "saturation" from the drop down box and then adjust the sliders as needed. If you want to adjust more than one color property, just click the "add" button again and choose the next property you want to adjust.

Sounds complicated but its not.

Thanks for this
I set the 'brightness' to +50 and the 'red' to -50.
Haven't had time to check the resultant file on my standalone.
Do you have a typical setting for this colour correction or is it different depending on each capture?
Thanks,
Will

[proxyx99]

If this is true, it seems to me that color
accuracy is not important. Am I right?

Very interesting question. To what degree we want to be faithful to the original? What is more important, picture that is eye pleasing or true to life. I'd agree that skin tone is most crucial. This is where Sony excelled. The rest will follow. Some manuf. make faces look greenish, some with red overtones but Sony was able to capture true skin color most faithfully. Is this a coincidence then that their version of "color fidelity" is actually also most pleasing, vivid, lifelike and became a benchmark for all others to follow. Seems like it's very difficult to separate both skin tone and color fidelity. In my opinion Sony's strive for color fidelity resulted in proper representation of skin tones, not the other way around. We subjectively judge colors by most common factor: skin color and its relation to the sorroundings. It's most obvoius and also most accurate (hardest to fake) way of measuring color fidelity.
To ansewer your question with relation to particular devices I'd say this: more faithful a copy is to the original, better the copy. In copying process what's least desirable is to let the device (like scanner) to modify the delicate color balance of the original so that we can get an "improved copy". If the modification pattern is well known and predictable then it may be fairly easily corrected. But the pattern has to be known beforehand. However "nice" a copy may be, if it's not true to source it cannot be ragarded a good copy. That applies to film as well as photography. Let me reverse your question: if DAC-100 from Datavideo and Canopus ADVC-100 were scanners, which one would you buy? The one with less or more color aberration? Perfect copy is not a "better" copy but a copy that is a most faithful rendition of the original.

[Blkout]

Color saturation is not really an issue for me anyway since I usually adjust that in TMPGEnc when encoding.

Could you give me a tip as to how you do that?
Thanks
Will

Sure, just open your file like you normally would when you encode it and click on "other settings", then click the "advanced" tab, then check "custom color correction" and then double click on it and open it up. Click "add" at the bottom of the screen and then click on the drop down box "mode" and add whichever color properties you want to adjust, for color saturation, choose "saturation" from the drop down box and then adjust the sliders as needed. If you want to adjust more than one color property, just click the "add" button again and choose the next property you want to adjust.

Sounds complicated but its not.

Thanks for this
I set the 'brightness' to +50 and the 'red' to -50.
Haven't had time to check the resultant file on my standalone.
Do you have a typical setting for this colour correction or is it different depending on each capture?
Thanks,
Will

My settings re different for each caprture, but I've never used a setting of + or - 50. That's a pretty drastic change in color. I usually never adjust brightness more than + or - 10-15. and With color correction, I usually don't adjust a single color, I usually adjust saturation to around -20 to -40.

[Bondiablo]

Does it matter which codec is used when capturing analogue via the ADVC?

The codec doesn't matter during capture since, after the ADVC converts the signal with it's own internal Canopus DV codec, it's more like a transfer than a capture but it makes a big difference when converting. Unfortunately, it isn't easy to get your encoding software to read the file using anything other than the MS DV Codec, the one exception being the Canopus DV Codec. Either use Scenalyzer Live to capture to a "Canopus Compatible File" or change the FourCC Code of your captured file, then programs like TMPGEnc will only be able to read the file using the Canopus DV Codec. There was a thread some time ago about how to get TMPGEnc and other programs to use other DV codecs like the MainConcept and Panasonic but it seemed like more trouble than it was worth.

[RWANDREWS]

Some REAL WORLD advantages for the CANOPUS ADVC100.

1) Many people do not have the required computer skills to optimize their software & hardware to allow for NO dropped frames with a capture card,

2) Opening up your computer to install an aftermarket video card VOIDS your warranty

3) Many people do not download or even KNOW to download latest drivers, etc.

4) People really WANT a one step solution, even if it isn't perfect

5) AVI must be used to edit video for best results, am I not right ? MPEG has problems with cutting on other than I-frame, ne c'est pas?

GRANTED, for MOST people on this forum these points are invalid, but for the average user they might be very important.

CANOPUS is a good recommend for a less than knowledgeable user. An expert can probably make just about anything work well.

[OneCardShort]

Here are the steps for changing the dv codec when using a dac 100 or advc 100, lifted from another thread:

mrbass posted 2002 May 02 20:01
I think DV footage is Bottom field first (Field B). I still get the grainy effect though. Setting it to field b at least solved the jerkiness of motion scenes though.

If you wish to change between codecs...here's my notes on that

DV Codecs
If you wish to change between the various DV codecs. Huffyuv 2.1.1and Microsoft (DV Encoder Video Encoder)


You can't have all DV codecs installed simutaneously. Huffyuv, MS DV Video Encoder can be installed with others though. It's possible have registry entries like dvs1, dvs2, dvs3 but it won't give you the option to chose type 1 or type2 unless only one of these entries is installed for the .dvsd registry entry. Below is the registry entry you need to change. Just save each one as suggested and double-click it and reboot to change which one you wish to use.

;Sony DV software CODEC save as dvsony.reg
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Drivers32]
"VIDC.dvsd"="sonydv.dll"

;Adaptec "DVSoft (TM)" save as dvadaptec.reg
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Drivers32]
"VIDC.dvsd"="dvc.dll"

;Mainconcept DV Codec 2.0.4 save as dvmainconcept.reg
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Drivers32]
"VIDC.dvsd"="mcdvd_32.dll"

[depressd]

OneCardShort

This info doesn't do anything for the advc or dac devices. It has been stated in this thread and others. This is a hardware device and the dv compression is done internally. Otherwise they would be just another type of pass through device ie video switchbox etc. The only difference this would possibly help is in playback. Since the created dv file has to be decoded.

[OneCardShort]

Exactly. This is for those that don't want the avi file to read with the microsoft dv codec. You can use this to change to whatever codec you like the avi to read with. If you open it up in gspot or say Premier than it will read panasonic dv codec or whatever other codec you changed it to. Just thought some people might interested in this registry hack.

[mracer]

It was never added to this thread, but all of the picture quality problems Will Hay documented here turned out to be the fault of his cables and video sources, and not the fault of the AVDC-100. Other users do not have the same problems and in other threads his source problems were documented. I thought this should be added here to prevent anyone from being mislead.

[Will Hay]

It was never added to this thread, but all of the picture quality problems Will Hay documented here turned out to be the fault of his cables and video sources, and not the fault of the AVDC-100. Other users do not have the same problems and in other threads his source problems were documented. I thought this should be added here to prevent anyone from being mislead.

I'd go even further and say Wll Hay's trouble were a result of him being a f*cking idiot.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with either my anaolgue, MiniDV (or for the prupose of testing) or standalone DVD captures.
They were all flawless in the end.
Read my last post.
Will Hay, idiot

[Coopervid]

For "forehead installation reasons" - hitting your forehead on the keyboard and everything works like magic, the Canopus is the right choice.
However, you have to consider that time is precious and at a certain level of quality there is only so much that improves that. That in mind I have the fastest turnaround time with a Hauppauge PVR-250, cutting out commercials with Womble MPEGVCR2, doing the authoring with TMPEG DVD Author, do the image with ImgTools and burn with DVDDecrypter.
Also, the PVR-250 doesn't care if Macrovision is present!!

I do have experience with several AIW cards and it can be done. But at what sacrifice (don't use your computer when recording!!) and crappy 7.x software and drivers. Anyone considering fast turnaround time from recording from TV / VCR to DVD / SVCD should look at the PVR-250. And half the cost of the Canopus. Yes, Hauppauge's software is also crappy and you have to mess with installing the card. Also NOT recommended for AMD based PCs! There are chances that the PVR-250 will not work (very good or at all) with the AMD chipsets.