Need advice on computer problem...

[j1d10t]

My son's computer is having problems. Well, it's really only got one problem, it won't start. Here is what happens: if I unplug the power cord, and let it sit for a minute, then plug it back in, it will start to start (the light on the front will flash, and I can hear the drive/fans starting to spin), then it will just go dead. If I try to start it again, nothing happens, unless I unplug the power cord, let it sit for a minute again, and plug it back in again. Could this be a problem with the power supply? It had the power supply burn out (and when I say burn out, I mean the power supply started smoking) about a year and a half/2 years ago, and I replaced it, so I'm not sure if it would be having problems again If I knew what the problem is, I'm pretty sure I could fix it, or learn how to fix it. I'd hate to have to take it in somewhere, as they would change $100 just to take a look at it, and tell me what's wrong. And it's only a P3 500mhz, and probably only worth about $100. Any advice on the problem (or what the problem might be) would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

Edit: This is a desktop. I've opened it up, made sure everything is seated, all the plugs are plugged in, nothing looks burnt, melted, anything like that.

And when I say it starts to start, it only starts to start for about 1 second - the monitor doesn't even flash.

Thanks

[redwudz]

Doesn't sound that you are getting past bios boot. You should hear one beep from the internal speaker if you are. Have you tried getting into bios? Three fingered salute:CTRL+ALT+DEL will usually get you there. Although it appears you can't get that far. First, reseat all internal connectors. If that doesn't work, probably PWR supply or total motherboard failure. Replace the PS first: if still exactly the same, MB failure is most likely. The symtoms you describe aren't usually caused by memory failure or HD failure. Maybe replace the MB battery before the PS. Depending on the MB, a bad battery is a possibility. They are cheap. If you had a PS failure, your MB may be OK. I have lost a MB, but the memory and the CPU and the drives survived. Good luck!

[j1d10t]

Yeah, I'm not even getting beeps. And I can't get anything to happen when I try to turn it on, no OS starting, not even safe mode, no bois, nothing. I'll try reseating everything, and re-plugging everything. Then I'll start with the MB battery, and then the power supply. If it ends up being the MB itself, would you recommend replacing it, or just junking it, and swapping the nicer parts to another computer?

Thanks for the assistance

[Solarjetman]

I have an old computer that this happens to when I begin to fiddle around with stuff.

Try doing this. Unplug the motherboard and drives from the power supply. Then press the power button. Of course this will not turn on the computer since the power supply is unhooked. The purpose is to discharge the motherboard.

Then only hook the motherboard back to the power supply and try to turn it on. I am not sure technically why this works, like I said I think it just discharges the board. Then if it works add the other equipment one by one.

If it does not work (and you feel comfortable doing this since you could hurt yourself), unhook it from everything and plug only a case fan into the power supply. Take about a 6 ohm resister and connect pins 4 and 5. Then take a wire and short pins 14 and 15. Then if the fan turns on, your power supply should be ok. This option would cost about $1 for a pack of 5 resisters from Radioshack. Alternately, you could spend about $10-$15 to buy a tester (which is nothing more than what I said above, but it has a little light) such as this one. That would tell you if your PSU is bad.

[redwudz]

I have done what Solarjetman is suggesting and it works. You need to make sure you are shorting the right pins (Check the MB manual). It won't test the PS under load, but it is safe for the MB. If the PS seems OK, I would go with a new MB. They are cheaper than ever and with newer features incorporated. If you have never dug into a computer, find someone that has and it will go easier. There are lots of sites that guide you through replacing a MB. If most of your components are reasonably new, you should be able to reuse them. A lot depends on the case you have, if it will work with a new MB. Some systems like HP make it harder to just replace the MB. I recently replaced an HP MB with one for about $50US and the person is still happy with the result.

Edit: I should have asked the specs for the computer you are talking about. If 'old' is an AT or similar, you may want to start over with a new machine. Nowadays, 5 years old is getting marginal for investing much money in a machine, of course, it depends what you use it for.

[The village idiot]

It could also be a bad powersupply, but they are pretty cheap.

[j1d10t]

OK. Cool. I'll tried reseating/re-plugging everything, and that wasn't it, so I'm going to go buy a new MB battery - I haven't changed it since I got the computer about 4 years ago. As for the specs, it's pretty basic (now). It's a P3 500mhz, 384MB RAM, 16GB HD, DVD-ROM (I can't remember the speed), and a 16X CR-RW. As I said, it's pretty basic, but my son can do his school work on it, and play some games - he's only 6, so he doesn't need a top of the line machine

I was kind of thinking that it might be the power supply, just because of the symptoms, but didn't want to go out and spend $20 on a new one, then have it turn out to be something totally different, and have wasted the $20. If the new battery doesn't fix it, then I'll try what Solarjetman suggested, and then go from there. Thank you very much for the help, everyone. I really appreciate it

[Solarjetman]

I'll try what Solarjetman suggested, and then go from there.

All righty. Just please be careful, and tripple check you are connecting the correct pins. Remember, you are dealing with an item that carries lots of electricity

And make sure your resisters can handle around 10W of power without frying. You should have a load around 5W.

[The village idiot]

What do you tie the powergood line to, to make the supply stay on?

[Solarjetman]

What do you tie the powergood line to, to make the supply stay on?

As far as I know, nothing. The pwr_good line is ment for diagnostics.

[The village idiot]

If power good doesn't get its sighnal, the powersupply is suppossed to shut down. That is why it is there. If the motherboard senses that one of the supply voltages if off enough to do dammage, it does not supply the signal on pwr good and the supply shuts down. Or at least that is the idea.

I did check the "tester" that I have and it looks like the pwr good gets connected to the -5 volts through a resistor, didn't get a meter out and check it though.

[j1d10t]

I have an old computer that this happens to when I begin to fiddle around with stuff.

Try doing this. Unplug the motherboard and drives from the power supply. Then press the power button. Of course this will not turn on the computer since the power supply is unhooked. The purpose is to discharge the motherboard.

Then only hook the motherboard back to the power supply and try to turn it on. I am not sure technically why this works, like I said I think it just discharges the board. Then if it works add the other equipment one by one.

If it does not work (and you feel comfortable doing this since you could hurt yourself), unhook it from everything and plug only a case fan into the power supply. Take about a 6 ohm resister and connect pins 4 and 5. Then take a wire and short pins 14 and 15. Then if the fan turns on, your power supply should be ok. This option would cost about $1 for a pack of 5 resisters from Radioshack. Alternately, you could spend about $10-$15 to buy a tester (which is nothing more than what I said above, but it has a little light) such as this one. That would tell you if your PSU is bad.

I'm going to CompUSA today to get a new battery for the MB, and I think I'm just going to pick up a PS tester, like the one you gave the link for - I'll stick to the safer stuff to start with

That and I'll try unhooking the PS, discharging the MB, and then hooking stuff up one at a time, like you suggested. Hopefully one of these will work Thanks again, everyone, for the advice - I really, really appreciate it, as I would much rather take the time/spend the money on learning how to fix the problem myself, then spend a lot of $ and have some place like CompUSA fix it.

Thanks again

[Solarjetman]

I did check the "tester" that I have and it looks like the pwr good gets connected to the -5 volts through a resistor, didn't get a meter out and check it though.

huh, all the PSUs I have done this to (which in honesty was only 2) did not shut down. Are you sure the motherboard does not read this line and if it is not correct, then the motherboad shuts the PSU down? But that would not explain the tester.

[RabidDog]

Never overlook the obvious.. maybe the ps is set to 240 as six year olds have been known to fiddle.

[j1d10t]

Never overlook the obvious.. maybe the ps is set to 240 as six year olds have been known to fiddle.

That was the first thing I checked

[The village idiot]

OK, the power good is generated from the powersupply to tell the system it can start.

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/power/sup/funcPowerGood-c.html

So I guess it doesn't matter if it is connected.

[j1d10t]

OK. I replaced the battery, that didn't help. I checked all the connections, they're good. I got a PS tester, and it says the PS is working fine, and when I unhook the PS from the MB, and connect it to the tester, the HD starts spinning, the floppy makes a noise, and the CD/DVD drives light up. So I guess that means it's the MB, right? Any suggestions on a new one? I looked at my invoice from when I bought the computer, and it says it is a BXT Motherboard W/AGP. I get the fact that it's a MB (that's pretty easy ), and the AGP would mean it has AGP slot (correct?) so does the BXT mean it's a BXT MB? Are there different types? Or is BXT most likely a brand? Do I need to look for a specific kind? I've never dealt with the MB before, so any/all advice would be greatly, greatly, greatly appreciated

Thanks

Edit: I'm sorry, I missed a line from the invoice. It says the MB is a MBP28X-ED BXT motherboard W/AGP.

Thanks

[Solarjetman]

So I guess that means it's the MB, right?

I would bet real money on the motherboard failure.

[redwudz]

Take a look here and see if this is your motherboard: (http://www.epoxusa.com/html/motherboard.asp?product=EP-BXT&lang=1) If that's what you have, you might try here for a used board: (http://www.computersurplusoutlet.com/) They are in Las Vegas.
If it is a slot 1 board, they are a little hard to find new. The next alternative is to just buy a newer processor and a newer board. Get one with built-in video and audio.

[The village idiot]

Here are some real cheapos, just click the what's in the box link so you know what you are getting, I didn't really check them too closely.

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=280965&Sku=S450-3013

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=589554&Sku=S450-3056

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=146975&Sku=S450-3010
The last one would re-use the old CPU and fan, that is, if it is still good. The other 2 come with a processor and fan.

[j1d10t]

Yeah, I was figuring I'd end up going with a used/refurbished MB. Thanks for the links. Would you also recommend someplace like e-bay for a used MB? Or should I stick with stores/on-line stores?

Also, is there a difference between slot 1 and socket 370?

I don't think I can say thanks enough to you guys. But I'll try

Thanks again for the help and hand holding

Edit: Here are some pics of my MB - I thought they might help

http://www.geocities.com/j1d10t/

[The village idiot]

BIG difference between slot 1 and socket 370, I guess you can cross off the third link. You might be able to get a better system on Ebay for the same , but it won't have any warranty. Tiger has a bunch of different bare bones kits, I simply picked the cheapest, there are much better machines in their bare bones section. I really like the "XPC" style for a basic machine, they take up little space, and offer good performance for the money. They look kind of cool too! Even Comp USA is starting to sell them, you might want to look at those, although it will cost you about $400 for a good one with processor and memory. I use a SS50 from shuttle (model before the SS51 and SS41) for my video and photo work, Only a 2Ghz processor, but it does a good job for now, and they would be OK for most games.

[redwudz]

If I remember, the slotted processors are all mounted on a pc board that plugs into the motherboard, while the socketed use a PGA (Pin Grid Array) that is a large, flat microchip that has several hundred pins on the bottom. This is the common type available today. They aren't interchangeable. If you want to upgrade, cost wise a new Duron (PGA)processor is one of the cheapest. I bought a 1.3GHZ for about $35. A motherboard with sound and video you can get for $50-$60. A barebones system like The village idiot posted may be the easiest upgrade. You just reuse your drives and memory. It looks like one of your PC cards is in an ISA slot, and those are rare now in most motherboards. As far as Ebay, never used it.

[j1d10t]

So you guy would recommend replacing the MB, and the processor? Then just swapping some of the components? But looking at my MB, and the description redwudz gave, it looks like I have a slot 1 MB? Because it looks like my processor is mounted perpendicular to my MB, on it's own little board, in a slot. I'm going to go to a computer store later today that deals with used/refurbished parts, but I will probably end up going with the links that The village idiot provided (which I really appreciate ).

I guess it doesn't really surprise me that it's the motherboard that has given out, because when I purchased the computer the AGP slot didn't work (still doesn't), and the company I bought it from went out of business 2 days after they shipped it to me - and I purchased it from the Computer Shopper magazine, so I thought it'd be pretty safe. After that I decided to stick with big companies, like Dell, Gateway, IBM, Compaq...

I went to the library, and 3 book stores looking for info on MBs, and the only thing I could find in the books were things like, "replace like with like" and "stay away from anything under 233mhz, as you are only buying yesterdays technology" - not a lot of help. So I really appreciate the help. I really enjoy learning about this kind of stuff, but it's really hard when all the books out there treat you like you either know everything you need to know and gloss over the subject, or that you know nothing, and they aren't going to take the time to even give you an overview. I'm really, really glad there are people like you guys that are willing to share what you've learned, help people in need, and donate your time/knowledge - thank you, thank you

[The village idiot]

What it comes down to for me, is when you can buy a nearly complete system for $100 that is better than what you have now, is it worth messing around to fine another old mainboard? Chances are very good you will find what you need for about $25, but the speed increase is always good.

[j1d10t]

Yeah, and I've been looking at computer stores that sell used/refurbished parts, and even then they don't have any slot 1 MBs - I understand they are older parts, but I didn't realize how hard it would be to find one in a store. And I was thinking about it, and how do I know if it's just the MB, and not the processor as well? So why not buy a package with the MBs, processor, fan, and PS, (like the ones you gave the links to), and cover all the bases, and upgrade a little in the process? I might check Fry's Electronics to see what they have, but if you recommend Tiger, then I'll probably go with them. I think I'll also wait until Friday when all the sales start, and see what places put on sale.

Thanks again for the help

[Solarjetman]

how do I know if it's just the MB, and not the processor as well?

You don't until you replace the motherboard.

I know what its like to try and get old computer equipment. It took me 5 days to find an ISA video card for the junker 486 I have (no PCI slots). The onboard one gave up the ghost. I ended up paying only $5 for it though.

[redwudz]

I think you are a lot better off with a new motherboard and processor. If you can find a used motherboard that meets your specs, you still have to figure out the jumpers needed to configure it, etc. The newer motherboards are fairly inexpensive and faster and easier to set up. If you're looking for economy, I like the AMD processors. You can find quite a few MB's with integrated video and audio. Not really that hard to set them up, and really, in the long run, cheaper if you consider the time involved to set up an older motherboard. Good luck!

[The village idiot]

Tiger has been OK for me, and I'm sure I will purchase from them again, but there are some things to know.

Not all the things they sell are NEW. Some are refurbs, some are pulls, and saw are new. The pulls they are good at labeling. The refurb/remanufactured (repaired) may not be labeled as such. That is why they have really low prices on some things, because they are remanufactured but come with the standard warranty. As long as you know and expect those things, they are alright to deal with.

If you decide to spend a little more money for a mostly complete machine that is small like the XPC's check http://www.idot.com . They may not be the cheapest, but they assemble you machine before it is shipped, and in many cases test to make sure it works. I have ordered from them, and I expected that when the things arrived I woud have to put the main board in and configure any jumpers, etc. but when it arrived I opened the box to find that the other boxes were empty and everything was installed and set to go. I was kind of disappointed to tell the truth, I like putting the machines together. And they only sell new items, no refurbs, no pulls. I think they have machines that start at about $125 that would be a good normal PC for everything but the hottest games. The ITX are nice, as are the Fic machines and the Shuttle XPC line is nice too.

[808smokey]

It might a simple thing like the fans malifunctioning. If they don't draw the right current it will shut down the board as a safety feature. If you want a new comptuer I'll build you one for nothing other than the parts and shipping, and maybe a 6 pack. You could have a kickass computer for around $500. PM me if your interested, if you now how to build one yourself I'll send you the sites you need to buy from.