Why does the Dazzle DVC II Sample Have

[vidpro]

Why does it have the properties of a mpg file encoded by TMPGenc. Tmpgenc is the only encoder I know of that doesn't end all GOP's Correctly, it also adds a signature to every file it encodes, this signature is present in that Dazzle DVC II clip. That's pretty shitty claiming that's a stream captured by the DVC II. It may have been captured, but it was re-encoded with TMPGenc, it has TMPG's signature on it.
HOW SHITTY!

[ktnwin]

Interesting info.

I look at the DVC II sample (SVCD I believed), and it looks really impressive. Quality is equal to what I got with my SVCD encoded with TMPGEnc.

I really thinks about buying this DVC II to cut down on encoding time if the quality is identical.

But this finding turns me off.

I am thinking about one possibility. The MPEG-2 file generated by DVC II is not SVCD compliant, therefore it needs to be "re-encoded" with TMPGEnc to be compliant. This re-encoding step should be really quick.

DVC II owners, please respond.

[monster]

Ok gang. I just bought the DVC II a couple weeks ago and I'll post untouched "real" samples captured directly from the Dvc II for people to download at this address :

ftp://24.9.52.241/dazzle/clips/vcr

Please check for these samples starting at 9:00 PST tonight. I have to capture and put them there first. I'll try to have the following for you :

1) SVCD Compliant Example (probably 30 seconds)
2) VCD Compliant Example (probably 30 seconds)
3) MPEG1 - HQ (30 seconds)
4) MPEG2 - HQ (30 seconds)

The clips will be directly from my VCR. I just got a DVD player that I need to setup. Check back later and I'll post DVD clips as well.

[aldus4]

@ktnwin

To answer your question. The captured mpeg stream (if one uses the SVCD template in the Dazzle capture software) is SVCD compliant. You just pop the captured stream into Nero for example and burn. There's nothing quite as easy...

[monster]

Yes you're right aldus4. There are templates to use when recording that ensure your clip is compliant. It's extremely easy to use.

[SHS]

vidpro how you fig that in fact what useing to come the properties of TMPGenc?.
ktnwin the DVC II sample is VCD.
monster you your ftp don't work rigth bud.

[monster]

I know SHS, I'm still at work. It won't be available until 9:00 PM PST tonight.

[SHS]

I'am look forward to see what you have sure be interest

[monster]

Ok I have a few examples uploaded. Remember, these are raw captures from the Dazzle DVC II and unedited in any way. I used the supplied templates (which follow vcd /svcd standards). Later I will upload variations.

ftp://24.9.52.241/dazzle/clips/vcr

[SHS]

Thank monster, Anyway I you my went to take look at the real diff
http://www.geocities.com/shs_3dfx/dvc2_vs_wintvpvr.html
Oh the image are are kind of on the big side


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SHS on 2001-07-09 21:01:51 ]</font>

[aldus4]

@SHS

WOW they were big <grin>. Anyhow. downloaded the page and I presume the top one of each comparison was the WinTV-PVR. As I know that you're not very fond of the DVC II don't you think a comparison test with the same images would have been more objective? Out of curiosity, the WinTV-PVR captures in avi or mpeg format?

[SHS]

Well they are monster examples dvc2 capture he made VCD, SVCD and HQ MPEG2 took me some time to down all three.
Any how I clean the page a bit all need to do refresh it
That done with MPEG chip not AVI I can only capture at 352x240 AVI with out being my system to it keens
hehe.

[monster]

Ok,I've completed them. They were all captured using all the default settings out of the box. All but 2 are from templates. The 2 were captured using max settings for MPEG1 and MPEG2 capture. Take a look :

ftp://24.9.52.241/dazzle/clips/vcr

Remember, these were captured off of a VCR, not a DVD player. VCR's only produce like 240 lines(?) of resolution, DVD players produce 500+ lines of resolution. The more pure the original soure, the more pure the output

[monster]

Hey SHS, I'm not sure there is a true comparison (aside from the fact you are comparing different clips). Perhaps I could take some screenshots from the same footage and post those as well (the Dazzle DVC II has a screenshot button).

[disturbed1]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-07-09 21:22:30, aldus4 wrote:
@SHS
As I know that you're not very fond of the DVC II don't you think a comparison test with the same images would have been more objective? </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Or how about the same format, as cable TV is way better quality than any VCR tape.
Judging by those screen shots though, neither one still doesn't output high enough quality. I had a DVC II for a day before I returned it, the quality was pure trash. I settled for a DC10+ mjpeg card. I refuse to pay $275 for a DVCII capture card that needs to be re-encoded when I can get a great quality mjpeg card for $70. There's no encoding time difference between MPEG2, and Mjpeg (I cap at 608x464@6000 KBYTES/sec). Even if you have a smaller hard drive (Mjpeg is huge), I'm sure you could buy a new drive, and a few 100 blank CD's with the $$ difference.

[SHS]

disturbed1 I know it not super high quality unless you spent $3000or4000 for a 4,6pass MPEG encode what do you went from a $300 that only dose 1pass MPEG encode?.
disturbed1 the problem with mjpeg is DOA and then there one other problem you never see any Win200 drivers for you card nor Matrox and a few other look bad for mjpeg is falling down hill.
Your way take to long to re encode in to MPEG then you also need a shit load disk space, by time you have done 1 hour I can 3 hour done edit & burn.
monster useing the screenshot button is useless here why
ok let say you do 2min clip so replay the clip & stop at 1min 5sec there where the kicker part come in you on 1min 5sec rigth but it really overlaying 1min 4sec & 1min 6sec to get the best quality out of the image this is a cheat on both card, And lot of low end MPEG editor do this to few higher end MPEG edotor to.
No aldus4 it not that am not fond of the DVC2 I just think they could have done much better job at it.

[aldus4]

@SHS

Yes, I agree totally, Dazzle could have done a much better job, but then looking at my operating system and a few other software programs I have.....they ALL could have done better <grin>

[disturbed1]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-07-10 06:18:35, SHS wrote:
disturbed1 the problem with mjpeg is DOA and then there one other problem you never see any Win200 drivers for you card
by time you have done 1 hour I can 3 hour done edit & burn.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

DOA? Dead don't get that? Why would you want to capture in 2Kpro? What benefit is this? The card use's hardware compression, using a better OS wouldn't have any effects on quality of the capture. In WINME I only use 4% cpu at max size and bit rate. If you only have 2K or NT, this a big down fall, but many people do dual boot from lack of compatibilty in these OS's which why I dual boot.
Granted you could burn 3 CDs to my one, but perhaps we have different quality standards, and different reasons to capture. I convert home made movies, like weddings, birthings, live sporting events and such. All which require extinsive editing and filtering. If I only wanted to copy purchased or rented tapes, one of those cards may do the job, but looking at the first picture from the WINTV card, even a clear broadcast signal (Tech TV) is far from anything I'd consider to be quality. The higher bitrate cap did look real good (WinTV), but it would need to be reencoded to a standard. I downloaded the 5000kbit/s mpeg1 DVCII clip also, even the quality of that clip doesn't come close to what I would consider a finished product. Although it is comparable to a 320x240 @ 1500KBYTE/s mjpeg cap from a noisey VHS which of course isn't a finished product either.


Like I said maybe my quality standard is a little too high. The DC10+ has met my standard for $70 + time to encode, anyway you look at it, that's better than $275 + time to encode.

[monster]

Hey disturbed1. What are the specs on the DC10+. Is is PCI? I'd like to know more. Thanks....

[disturbed1]

Monster>
It's an internal (no break-out box) PCI card, caps at 640x480, 640x240, 320x480, 320x240 upto 6,000 KBYTES (not bits...48,000 kbits?). It has a cropping option which cuts off the non important parts such as tracking errors on the top and bottom and sides (608, 464, 304, 232). The capture software was co-written by Markus Zinng (author of AV_IO) so there aren't any A/V problems, I use a Biostar MB, with Via chipset and built in sound, no problems here even upto 70min caps. The card doesn't have a TV tuner, you can capture TV through the tuner on you VCR or whatever device you want. It has S-Video and composite inputs and outputs, sound is through you sound card. The software is A1 for home movie buffs, with a plethoria of transitions, overlays, titles, scene dection and editor, plus more. You can export your edited movie back to (S)VHS, watch it on TV, compress from Studio through VFW codecs (DIVX, Indeo, Huff, so on), or keep as MJPEG, filter and frameserve with V-DUB.
If your after TV caps, or have good quality VHS tapes, the Dazzle may do the trick with higher bitrates and mpeg2, but for quality at Standard VCD I'd seriously look else where. When I bought my DVCII, the software that came with it was a joke as was the mpeg quality, but that was then, maybe it's been updated. The software for the DC10+ is good, maybe great if you've ever wanted to play producer.
http://www.pinnaclesys.com/productpage.asp?templ=8&Product_ID=2

You can also cap at 480x480 in V-dub, any other resolution than this and those above crop too much off.

[sracer]

I know everyone is talking about the DVC II, but here is a raw clip that I captured from an original DVC I (USB version)... attached to a DVD player via SVideo using the standard VCD template.

http://pages.prodigy.net/tcperconti/vcdsamp.mpg

[SHS]

disturbed1 let see a examples capture in MPEG format 15 to 30 sec will do.
Oh make that VCD

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SHS on 2001-07-10 09:22:49 ]</font>

[SHS]

sracer after runing thur Womble Multimedia MPEG2VCR time line each frame now that how it should look "VCD" very clean no off wall algorithm artifacts nor noise around objects nor small blockness how ever It dose seem to be a tab bit on blur side but very good for must part.

sracer can you send me 15 to 30sec VCD clip from a cartoon
shs@advertisnet.com try keep it under 4mb thank.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SHS on 2001-07-10 09:52:50 ]</font>

[monster]

Sounds good disturbed1. Can you share a compliant VCD example you've made? That's the format quality I'm really concerned about at this point. Thanks ...

[hilltech]

I've been using the Dazzle II now for about 6 months. I get very good quality svcd's that are complaint, and I've had no issues burning my cd's with nero. Quality is outstanding capturing from my Direct TV reciever, vcr, DVD player and video cam. The svcd's play well on may Apex DVD player. In fact processing the svcd files through TMPGenc seems to reduce the quality and increases the file size of svcd files. I've stopped using TMPGenc for svcd. Vcd quailty when captured from my Direct TV reciever or DVD player is also outstanding, however in order to get good quality vcd's from my vcr I need to caputure at a higher rate than vcd and process with TMPGenc, I suspect that I need to get a better vcr.

[monster]

Well I haven't had the DVC II for very long Hilltech, but I think I'm in the same vote as you. It seems encoding my MPEG1's at a high rate then running TEMPGenc to process to VCD works pretty well. I'm anxious to capture direct from DVD

[disturbed1]

Here you go.
http://home.columbus.rr.com/sampleclips/

[monster]

disturbed1, the link to download the mpg doesn't seem to work

[disturbed1]

Sorry, should work now. I leave this stuff here for a few hours, then I'll upload a VHS capture.

[monster]

Looks pretty good disturbed1. I have that movie on DVD. I'll try and get some examples for download.