Womble MPEG2VCR Question

[Tiernan]

OK, I've been trying to use MPEG2VCR to remove commercials from a standalone-captured DVD rip (it seems that the key to keeping the ac3 audio and m2v in sync is to work on the raw VOB itself, rather than re-ripping them and working on them AFTER demuxing). The problem I've run into now is that I've gone through and cut out all the commercials, I then went to the "save" option, made sure not to make any changes to the audio or video settings (so it wouldn't re-encode) and saved the file. Oddly enough, it worked on the save for about 2 minutes and stopped. The resulting MPG file was only 2:45 or so (out of the 90 minute total indicated in the final edit). Thinking that I might have somehow inadvertantly changed some setting or another, I went back to the original VOB again, and only trimmed the beginning and end. It save the slightly edited file in approx. 15 minutes and everything that was supposed to be there was there (and vice versa). So, again, I went back and tried to edit all the commercials again - no dice (89MB - just under 3mins).

Is there some setting for this program that I was not aware of that would limit the output in this odd way? Or is this just a huge bug that everyone else has seen? Anyone have a suggestion?

[lordsmurf]

Womble hit a chapter marker and stopped. You'll need to remove chapter marks. No idea how to do it on VOBs.

Demuxing the file works for me. I remove the chapter marks and other non-essentials in ReStream. Then let Womble cut after remuxing with the AC3.

Did this on quite a few Panasonic-recorder-made discs without any problems.

[Tiernan]

LordSmurf,

Just to clarify, did you originally go about your commercial editing in the same way that I have (ie rip the 5 VOB's to 1). If so, exactly how did you go about the demuxing. Was it matter of demuxing the 1 big VOB to ac3/m2v, removing the chapter breaks and then remuxing to VOB, or will it be ok to remux to an MPG (losing the chapter breaks, and hopefully NOT losing the audio synch info)?

Just a bit more detail would be VERY much appreciated. I've spent weeks trying to figure out how to make use of these standalone-burned DVDs....

[FOO]

This may sound silly but in MPEG2VCR after you make all your
edits by deleting sections, and you then go to save , The default
condition is that only a very small part is selected.
Right before you hit save , set the mark-in and mark-out
to the whole movie OR
hit ALL in the save dialog.

I have forgotten this several times, and you lose all your edits.

[Tearren]

-Tiernan

What kind of standalone do you have?

Tearren

[Tiernan]

Tearren,

It's not actually mine (a friends), but it's a Phillips model (from a year ago or so). I don't know the exact model #.

FOO,

Yeah, that was one of the first few things I noticed, and made sure that the whole file was selected. It didnt seemt to make a difference, so I'm assuming that the chapter points were/are what's causing the error...

[FOO]

I don't think the chapter points are in the MPEG2 stream.
They're in the Navigation stream .

[Tiernan]

Hmm....

If this is the case, then I should be expecting to lose audio synch AGAIN by demuxing the m2v/ac3 files from the VOB, correct?

If so, then I need to be able to fix the chapter point problem (in the navigation stream) with something else, like IfoEdit or VOBEdit, yes?

[FOO]

I don't see any reason to blame chapters. Aren't you going to re-author the movie ? You can put some in then.
Why do you believe you will lose sync by demultiplexing ?
You will lose chapters.
I guess I don't understand.

Isn't the problem that the editing is not working ?

I just tried TMPGenc DVD Author for editing. It worked well and
imports VOBs. You just remove the commercials and make a DVD.
If Womble doesn't work try something else.

[Tiernan]

> I don't see any reason to blame chapters.

The main reason that I was looking seriously at chapters was 1)LordSmurf indicated that they were probably at fault for the save failure (having done quite a few standalone-burned-DVD rips in past), and 2) until he mentioned chapters as a cause, I'd NO idea what could be causing the save to fail. It seemed a good place to start.

> Aren't you going to re-author the movie ?

Yes

> You can put some in then.

Yes, I will.

> Why do you believe you will lose sync by demultiplexing ?

Because it happens every time that the m2v/ac3 files are demuxed from the standalone-captured VOB files. The audio delay information seems to be encoded in the navigation stream (along with the chapter breaks, etc.)
Once those streams are stripped (or the m2v/ac3 files are stripped) that information is lost.

> You will lose chapters.

Yup, "and I'm ok with that..."

> I guess I don't understand.
> Isn't the problem that the editing is not working ?

Yes, that... and so much more.

> I just tried TMPGenc DVD Author for editing. It worked well and
> imports VOBs.

I agree. I like it a lot, BUT... it doesnt have the flexibitlity or the authoring power that ENCORE has. Encore has been my app of choice for some time now. I'd prefer to author with it if I have any choice in the matter, nevermind the fact that DVDAuthor DID import the VOBs but... it's not keeping A/V synch 100% of the time (especially because of the standalone ac3 delay)

> You just remove the commercials and make a DVD.
> If Womble doesn't work try something else.

If only it were so simple.... I've been trying this for weeks, and it seems that some aspect or another of the process fails along the way...

Thanks for your suggestions, regardless.

[FOO]

OK try VideoStudio7
if you set the output exactly like the input it won't re-encode

I understand the problem . I spent months trying to
edit soft telecined MPEG2 and still can' t do it
Maybe that recorder did a IVTC . Oh no

[Tearren]

I know this is a furstrating process. It took me a while before I got down a process that works for me. If you feel like starting from scratch and trying it a different way, here is my suggestion.

(The reason I asked about the standalone is because I know this works from a Panasonic DMR-HS2. I would think it would work for you. And if you have a hard drive we can simplify it even more).

Here is what I sometimes do for editing.

1) Import the .VOB into DVDLab and Demuliplex
2) Remove Chapters from movie
3) Add chapter points where I want to edit out
4) Rip with smartripper by chapter (Change in settings)
5) Delete out the .VOB's in the VIDEO_TS folder I don't want
6) Rename VOB's to be in sequential order
7) Rip again with smartripper by max-file size to have 1 .VOB (Change in settings)
8 Author in DVDLab
9) Burn

I have never had any A/V sync issues this way. No re-encoding. It sounds like a lot, but after a few times it really doesn't take that long.

It is important you didn't do ANY editing on the DVD disk burned from the standalone, with this method. Does the standalone you are using have a harddrive? or did you just record the program to a DVD disk?

Let me know if you have any questions.

Tearren

[lordsmurf]

I don't think the chapter points are in the MPEG2 stream.
They're in the Navigation stream .

There's something about the recorders that dumps some kind of crap into the MPEG that causes errors during splicing. It seems to be around chapter marks.

Only thing I could find outside of a full re-encode was using ReStream to remove bogus data.

While this means I found a fix, I admit I don't know the root cause. Having found a fix, the reason quickly became unimportant.

[FOO]

Speaking of crap, I found out that Womble puts
a little comment about itself in the
"user info block" or whatever it's called
in all the Mpeg headers.

I wonder if the edit problem has to do with open or closed Gops ?

Smurf , What do you remove with restream ?

[Tiernan]

> Smurf , What do you remove with restream ?

This was going to be my question exactly. I have to admit that I don't know QUITE as much as I need to about the typical contents of an MPEG stream, and/or what should NOT be there, and/or what should be stripped out. Most of the settings in restream are... cryptic at best. If you could elaborate on what you do in restream, it would be most appreciated...

[pothole46]

I dont know if this will work for you but I use DVD decrypt when I need to edit out commercials with womble.

I use IFO mode and select the PCG I want, making sure the settings in IFO mode under file splitting are set to none so I get one large VOB.

Rip to HDD and load the VOB into Womble, I always mark in and out on the adds as its playing and then cut them.

Make sure as the other poster said you mark in and out on the whole clip after your edits, then save it, only takes minutes because you are not encoding.

pothole

[Tiernan]

> I dont know if this will work for you but I use DVD decrypt when I need edit out commercials with womble.

Just to clarify, 1) do you mean DVD Decryptor? and 2)are these also standalone-burned DVD rips?

> I use IFO mode and select the PCG I want, making sure the settings in IFO mode under file splitting are set to none so I get one large VOB.

Since I don't see these options in DVD Decryptor, I assume you are referring to some other app.

> Rip to HDD and load the VOB into Womble, I always mark in and out on the adds as its playing and then cut them.

OK, seems simple enough here...

> Make sure as the other poster said you mark in and out on the whole clip after your edits, then save it, only takes minutes because you are not encoding.

I followed all of these steps (as best I could approximate), but still... no dice.

I probably need more clarification....

[lordsmurf]

> Smurf , What do you remove with restream ?

This was going to be my question exactly. I have to admit that I don't know QUITE as much as I need to about the typical contents of an MPEG stream, and/or what should NOT be there, and/or what should be stripped out. Most of the settings in restream are... cryptic at best. If you could elaborate on what you do in restream, it would be most appreciated...

"Remove all user data" under the "stream extras" section.

[Tiernan]

OK, OK, my bad...

I was using an older version of DVD Decryptor, which didnt have those options. I got the newer version and re-extracted the one VOB (using the settings indicated by pothole46,) but still - no dice...

Thanks for your reply LordSmurf. I've demuxed (again), stripped all user data from the M2V, remuxed it with the AC3 again, and.... ran out of time.

I'll have to get back to it during lunch when I have a chance to see if it worked.

Should there have been some other option or setting in ReStream that might not be set by default?

Just checking....

[dcsos]

Womble Works for me too in this task
It does remove chapters, but the commercials are gone and no 2 minute problems when I use womble to do this
So please try again your seeminly good procedure with a differnt inputted file..IT COULD JUST BE THE ONE FILE YOU'RE WORKING ON ISN'T womble COMPATIBLE-
as I also had one MOVIE which wouldne't cut properly with womble (used ulead to re-render unfortunately..instead)