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  1. Guest
    I have a problem burning DVD-R at x4 with my Pioneer A05. For some reason Nero can read off my HD only at x3 (when I do a speed test before burning).

    You might think that my computer is too slow, but it isn't:

    CPU: P-4, 2533MHz
    Bus: 533Mhz
    HD: ATA100, UDMA-5
    DVD-R: UDMA-2
    OS: WIN2K

    I have two HD, one is 40GB and the other is 60gb. I tried burning iso image from both but still nero claims that transfer rate is too slow, and from my expirience my HD can ransfer much more then 15MB per second so it's illogical... Maybe because they are NTFS?

    Thanks in advance,
    MpegObsession
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  2. It's most certainly not because of NTFS as I use Win2K myself with an A05. One contributing factor could be if you have the hard disk drive that contains the DVD image on the same IDE buss as the A05. Having two lots of traffic on the same set of wires slows things down tremendously. In my machine I have the two HDD's on IDE0 buss and my A05 and a CD burner on the IDE1 buss.
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
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  3. Member DJRumpy's Avatar
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    Having both on the same bus still shouldn't be the issue, as the IDE bus has more than enough bandwidth to handle the relatively slow burn rate for 4X DVD (5.54MB/s). Even reading/writing to both drives, it shouldn't cause the extreme delays your talking about.

    I have seen some strange issues pop up on WinXP where the drive throughput would appear to be 'crippled', so that a CD-R drive running above even a slow speed burn spped like 16x (2.4 MB/s) would get buffer underruns. Device manager reported no problems with controller or drives. Unfortunately, I never did find a resolution except to reinstall XP, which did resolve the problem. I don't recall if I ever experienced this problem on Win2K. There are a few things you can check though.

    If your on Win2K, click START | RUN, and type in DEVMGMT.MSC. Click OK. This should bring up your device manager. Expand the plus '+' symbol next tothe IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers. You should have one or two IDE Channels listed (a Primary, and most likely, a Secondary channel). You should also have the BUS Controller listed. Double click the Bus Controller. When the properties window opens, ensure the General tab reports that your controller is working properly. Close the widow. Double click the PRIMARY channel, and then click the Advanced Settings tab. Ensure both devices are set to 'DMA if available'. Click OK. If prompted to restart at this point, answer yes, UNLESS you have a Secondary Controller, in which case, you should answer NO to the restart question, and perform the same setting change to your Secondary Channel (again, ensuring both are set to 'DMA if available'.

    Shutdown and restart normally. Verify operation of all of your drives.

    You should also defragment your hard drives. You should do this at least once monthly, preferrably once weekly. You can right click your My Computer, and select MANAGE. Expand the STORAGE section, and click the Disk Defragmenter to defragment your drives.
    Impossible to see the future is. The Dark Side clouds everything...
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  4. Member
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    UDMA-2 is PIO mode speed. About 2x is all your going to get in PIO mode.

    Oh yeah, anything else on that cable is also stuck at mode 2, rules of IDE devices.

    As to why and how to fix it? Hmmmm, long and complicated answer. Ultimately you have to install W2K/XP with a command switch to NOT share IRQ's; this will eliminate the wandering DMA speed.

    Short term try is to delete you IDE controllers in device manager and re-boot. They should autodetect and go UDMA mode, If it's supported.

    As a side note, this happens everytime you swap-out an older CDRW for a DVDRW :P
    To Be, Or, Not To Be, That, Is The Gazorgan Plan
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  5. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
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    Exactly...
    Place Pioneer to IDE 01 as a Secondary Master.
    As a secondary Slave or set another DVD drive, or a HD you don't use for burning source....
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  6. Guest
    Hi,

    I guees it must be a bad ISO image that DVD-WORKSHOP made, that Nero found hard to read. I just made a speed test with an ISO image from DVD-MAESTRO and it went well, saying I could even do a x23 DVD burning

    Strane problem though...

    By the way, UDMA-2 is NOT Pio. According to Intel-Application-Accalerator there are the following modes:

    Pio 0-1-2-3 or 4
    DMA SW 0-1 or 2
    DMA MW 0-1 or 2
    UDMA 0-1-2-3-4 or 5

    So no UDMA is Pio...

    Thank you all for helping!
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  7. Member
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    You didn't least the speeds associated with each. Don't assume UDMA-2 is 'fast', it's not compared to UDMA-5. It's not comapred to PIO-4 either :P


    There is a difference (besides speed) in PIO and UDMA in how the data is handled (CPU load for PIO).
    To Be, Or, Not To Be, That, Is The Gazorgan Plan
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  8. Guest
    Well, I just tested speed using Nero's cash location selector. I ran the test 5 times for each mode (one without speed limit, the second limiting my HDD to UDMA-2).

    Here is the minimum result, the avarage of 5 tests, and the maximum result:

    UDMA-5:
    Min: 34.5MB/S
    Avarage: 37.9MB/S
    Max: 44.3MB/S

    UDMA-2:
    Min: 20.6MB/S
    Avarage: 21.6MB/S
    Max: 22.8MB/S

    I'm very dissapointed, as this means I could only burn a DVD at roughly x15
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  9. Member DJRumpy's Avatar
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    Here is some info regarding each mode, it's cycle time, maximum throughput, and the standard in which it was introduced:

    Mode Cycle Time Throughput Standard

    PIO mode 0 600 ns 3.3 MB/s Since ATA-1
    PIO mode 1 383 ns 5.2 MB/s Since ATA-1
    PIO mode 2 240 ns 8.3 MB/s Since ATA-1
    PIO mode 3 180 ns 11.1 MB/s Since ATA-2
    PIO mode 4 120 ns 16.6 MB/s Since ATA-2

    Multi Word DMA 0 480 ns 4.2 MB/s Since ATA-1
    Multi Word DMA 1 150 ns 13.3 MB/s Since ATA-2
    Multi Word DMA 2 120 ns 16.6 MB/s Since ATA-2

    UltraDMA 0 240 ns 16.6 MB/s Since ATA-4
    UltraDMA 1 160 ns 25 MB/s Since ATA-4
    UltraDMA 2 120 ns 33.3 MB/s Since ATA-4
    UltraDMA 3 90 ns 44.4 MB/s Since ATA-5
    UltraDMA 4 60 ns 66.6 MB/s Since ATA-5
    UltraDMA 5 40 ns 100 MB/s Since ATA-6
    UltraDMA 6* 30 ns 133 MB/s With ATA-7

    Almost all modern CD Rom drives, and DVD drives support at least UDMA mode 2.
    Originally Posted by Gazorgan
    UDMA-2 is PIO mode speed. About 2x is all your going to get in PIO mode.

    Oh yeah, anything else on that cable is also stuck at mode 2, rules of IDE devices.
    You'll note that Ultra DMA 2 is capable of twice the maximum speed of PIO Mode 4. It's also more than 6 times the bandwidth needed by your DVD burner at a full 4X (without overhead of course). More than adequate for your needs. Even if both devices on that IDE channel ran at its full rated speed, they would still have plenty of room to move the data. Only one device can transfer data at any given time over and ide channel (devices on separate channels can talk at th same time, but in these cases, both channels would be tied up), meaning each device has full use of the available pipe/channel. SCSI devices are limited by the slowest device on the SCSI bus, not IDE. SCSI is limited as a tradeoff for allowing multiple transfers from multiple devices on the same bus (parallel). When each device is initialized, the maximum speed of all devices is determined, and the SCSI bus is throttled, if necessary, so that all devices can talk safely on that channel.

    IDE only allows one device to talk at a time, but each device can talk at it's fastest speed. Placing a CD-Rom, and an IDE drive on the same channel does not limit your hard drive to the same speed as your CD-Rom, although communication between the two will incur some slight overhead due to differences in protocols. All modern IDE controllers provide independent device timing, they will not affect each other's operation.

    As for shared IRQ's, hard drive controllers, even under Windows XP, do not typically share IRQ's unless the controller is a non-integrated PCI controller. Each channel by default will recieve it's own IRQ (typically 14 & 15) with an integrated controller (the type you most likely have). You can verify this in the device manager. Select the View menu, 'Resources By Type'. You'll should find only those two devices using those IRQ's.
    Impossible to see the future is. The Dark Side clouds everything...
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