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  1. Ok, so i am tired of recording my shows on VHS and then converting to mpeg 2 on my computer and ultimately burning to DVD. I have heard that you can get satellite and a tivo and simply transfer files from the tivo, since the satellite signal is already mpeg2 format. Is this pretty easy to do? It seems like it would be killer to simply program tivo to record, and then simply transfer mpeg2 files from the tivo( harddrive) to my pc (harddrive) and burn.

    Any help, or website links are appreciated.
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  2. As far as I know with the TIVO, it is not an easy process getting the files off the drive. The OS for the TIVO is LINUX and you would have to crack open the TIVO and take the drive out.

    I just capture straight from the TIVO using the SAVE TO VCR function. It's the same as a standard capture.
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  3. So what does that mean? Save to vcr? It just plays it and then you use like s-video out and use a capture card? Your details seem vague. Tell me more. I just want to be able to record digitally, and then burn to dvd and avoid using a vhs in the middle.
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  4. mybe im missing something here but.. why dont u just capture direct from t.v/satalite to the pc via the t.v card. i have myne hooked up to the satalite box and record stright from the digital satalite to the pc and it auto saves it to mpeg 2. im possibly missing something here though.
    sheesh
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  5. I'm just getting this worked out myself but here is what I am doing. I have a DishPVR 508 from dishnetwork that has an internal hard drive like the TIVO. There isn't any way to stream the file in its original MPEG-2 format from the DispPVR to the computer. There may be on the TIVO but I don't think so.

    I have an ATI All-in-wonder card in my computer that accepts composite and S-Video inputs. (I have also used an AverMedia EZMaker capture card with satisfactory results when encoding at MPEG1 - VCD format). I record most programs on the DishPVR so I can pause and rewind during capture (bypassing commercials). If you are already capturing from VHS the same process can be used to capture from a TIVO/DishPVR.

    Some people had modified earlier DishPlayer models (7100/7200) to allow the HD to be removed and there were programs that copied the files from the HD to a computer but I haven't seen anyone doing that yet with the 508.

    Checkout the PVRs at www.dishnetwork.com and DVR's at www.directv.com for a comparison of capabilities.
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  6. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
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    Here in Europe, you can grabb DVB satellite transmissions (also cable and terrestrial) using special PCI cards, like SkyStar 2 (techisat), Hauppauge Win TV Nova and Win TV Nexus.
    Unfortunatelly most DVB channels use other framesizes and not the DVD ones. So, most of the time you have to re-encode.


    In US things are more complicated. Only few channels are DVB and most of them foreign. TiVo isn't the same as DVB ripping, even if it looks like from what at least I know. I believe the easiest alternative there, is what arDuck suggest you. Analogue capture with realtime mpeg 2 convertions. If you have the filespace and you wish average quality, is the best way.
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  7. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by westy
    mybe im missing something here but.. why dont u just capture direct from t.v/satalite to the pc via the t.v card. i have myne hooked up to the satalite box and record stright from the digital satalite to the pc and it auto saves it to mpeg 2. im possibly missing something here though.
    That's the only way to do it. You're not missing a thing.
    You can hack older PVR units (DISH) and break it open to remove the HD.
    You can't do anything on the DVR (DirecTV).
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    Most Tivo's will support 2 drives. You can force the issue and capture to the #2 drive, then pull it out. However, it's a Linux Formatted disk, so you will need to deal with that (don't ask, I won't tell you how....it's too involved for a 2 paragraph responce).

    There is no guarantee the resulting file is DVD complient, and in fact it's usually not. It's also a single pass encode.

    What you really want to do you can't, that is capture the digital sattelite image directly. I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm saying you can't do it. Too much is involved for someone that's not a Computer Geek/Engineer.

    You best bet is a S-Video capture card, some filter/post processing and re-encode to DVD. Alternately, you can buy a standalone DVDR and use that (with a macrovision blocker adapter).
    To Be, Or, Not To Be, That, Is The Gazorgan Plan
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  9. Member Ziffelpig's Avatar
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    Take a look at Replay TV, it will do what you want with little tweaking. If you are comfortable with Linux there is a freeware alternative called Freevo, that is basically a Tivo type System for Linux. It works very well.
    Just shut up and listen dumbass
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  10. Correct me if I am wrong, but don't both Tivo and Replay TV units use Analog inputs and encode to mpeg-2 internally. If so then this is no better (in quality terms at least) than can be achieved with a PC and capture card.
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  11. Originally Posted by Gazorgan
    You best bet is a S-Video capture card, some filter/post processing and re-encode to DVD. Alternately, you can buy a standalone DVDR and use that (with a macrovision blocker adapter).
    As long as the signal to the Satellite Reciever is very good (Dish and DirectTV compress signals to fit more channels per transponder, so sometimes the image can be less that satisfactory) going thru the S-Video to a Capture Card/Device will produce very good quality captures. Some that would take a DVD afficinado to detect.


    But the most important thing is Garbage in = Garbage Out (you can only do sooo much with a poor original signal.)
    Cendyne/Pioneer 105 & 104 with a Dazzle* Hollywood DV-Bridge.
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  12. Originally Posted by bugster
    Correct me if I am wrong, but don't both Tivo and Replay TV units use Analog inputs and encode to mpeg-2 internally. If so then this is no better (in quality terms at least) than can be achieved with a PC and capture card.
    Correct, but a DirectTiVo or UltimateTV or DishNetworkPVR (which are all combo sat reciever and PVR) will take the Satellite signal directly and encode to whatever they encode to, to the hard drive with minimal loss. So you end up with the best possible quality compared to a standalone TiVo or Replay. But the amount of effort required to pull the MPEG type data off the DirecTiVo or DishPVR hard drive may not be worth the trouble for most/many???

    IMHO if you take a COmbo Sat/PVR and S-Video to a PC Capture Device it will still be better than capturing off of a Standalone TiVo or Replay. But the quality of your capture device and encoding settings will obviously play a part in Quality
    Cendyne/Pioneer 105 & 104 with a Dazzle* Hollywood DV-Bridge.
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  13. Originally Posted by bugster
    Correct me if I am wrong, but don't both Tivo and Replay TV units use Analog inputs and encode to mpeg-2 internally. If so then this is no better (in quality terms at least) than can be achieved with a PC and capture card.
    I believe that's right. The big advantage of Tivo is the convenience of the service. If the broadcast time or length changes Tivo will automatically adjust for that. It can record shows that are on wishlists so you don't even have to know what channel they are on or when. I never watch live tv anymore now that I have Tivo.
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  14. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bugster
    Correct me if I am wrong, but don't both Tivo and Replay TV units use Analog inputs and encode to mpeg-2 internally. If so then this is no better (in quality terms at least) than can be achieved with a PC and capture card.
    Some of them, at some point, in some places, directly dumped the stream. Not a capture, not an encode, but rather a download.
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  15. Originally Posted by stangyamahar1
    So what does that mean? Save to vcr? It just plays it and then you use like s-video out and use a capture card? Your details seem vague. Tell me more. I just want to be able to record digitally, and then burn to dvd and avoid using a vhs in the middle.
    If you want to go the best way Picture Quality wise, probably best thing is 1) Get Satellite and get a combo Satellite/PVR reciever (DirectTV has a combo TiVo or DishNetwork has some PVRs, not going to discuss which is best, that is another topic).
    2) You record the program to Combo Sat/PVR (so you can work with the program whenever you want to and in addition there PVR recording will be the closest thing to the original than a Stand Alone TiVo or VHS recording)
    3) Play the PVR recording, and record it via S-Video to your capture device, encode as necessary.

    This is the best PQ you will get other than opening the case, pulling the hard drive and ripping the data off the drive.

    This makes a few assumptions
    1) That the Satellite signal is the best signal you can get, You Mileage may vary, some digital cable may be better but unless they offer a combo CableBox/PVR you will still lose alot of PQ from Stand Alone CableBox to Stand Alone PVR. But a terrible signal from Satellite is not impossible expecially on some of those Public Interest Channels...
    2) That a record to VHS and then PC capture will bring you the lowest PQ combination, so any improvement over that is a victory. Recording to a Stand Alone TiVo and then Stand Alone TiVO to Capture is still better than involving VHS...
    Cendyne/Pioneer 105 & 104 with a Dazzle* Hollywood DV-Bridge.
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  16. Originally Posted by arDuck
    I'm just getting this worked out myself but here is what I am doing. I have a DishPVR 508 from dishnetwork that has an internal hard drive like the TIVO. There isn't any way to stream the file in its original MPEG-2 format from the DispPVR to the computer. There may be on the TIVO but I don't think so.

    I have an ATI All-in-wonder card in my computer that accepts composite and S-Video inputs. (I have also used an AverMedia EZMaker capture card with satisfactory results when encoding at MPEG1 - VCD format). I record most programs on the DishPVR so I can pause and rewind during capture (bypassing commercials). If you are already capturing from VHS the same process can be used to capture from a TIVO/DishPVR.

    Some people had modified earlier DishPlayer models (7100/7200) to allow the HD to be removed and there were programs that copied the files from the HD to a computer but I haven't seen anyone doing that yet with the 508.

    Checkout the PVRs at www.dishnetwork.com and DVR's at www.directv.com for a comparison of capabilities.
    I haven't done it yet with a 508, I have 501s and Dishplayers... The DP is easier so I didn't do the 508 either...

    However I believe/understand it,since the data isn't encrypted on the drive that the DMCA doesn't enter into it for either machine.

    Two issues opening the 50x series will void the warranty, and Dishes resoulutions are: Most common 544 by 480 and less common 640 by 480.

    My players can handle the 544 but not the 640 ok. Yours could be different.

    For Dps you'd join the Dishplayer Explorer Group on Yahoo Groups and for the 50x series you can Join the Dishrip Yahoo Group.

    Dishrip group has software that will extract the 501/8 video for you.
    Tutorials to convert etc.

    In short tho, DVDpatcher the header to DVD specs. Add to TMPGenc DVD Author, Save. Repatch back to 544 by 480 DVB format, edit com,mercial etc., Add chapters, author, Nero burn DVD, Test.

    640 by 480, Mux Audio & video. Convert to DVD specs, author, burn

    In short the Dishnetwork Dishplayers and 50x series are easier to do.

    Or do what I do with the 50x sewries because of warranty, takes much longer tho, Capture the clip with ADVC 100, CCE Basic to DVD 2 pass VBR, then author

    Cheers
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  17. Originally Posted by TBoneit
    Or do what I do with the 50x sewries because of warranty, takes much longer tho, Capture the clip with ADVC 100, CCE Basic to DVD 2 pass VBR, then author
    Cheers
    Most people would be more than happy with that way. And you can continue to record another show while you are playing back the show to capture.
    Cendyne/Pioneer 105 & 104 with a Dazzle* Hollywood DV-Bridge.
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  18. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Originally Posted by bugster
    Correct me if I am wrong, but don't both Tivo and Replay TV units use Analog inputs and encode to mpeg-2 internally. If so then this is no better (in quality terms at least) than can be achieved with a PC and capture card.
    Some of them, at some point, in some places, directly dumped the stream. Not a capture, not an encode, but rather a download.
    Others told me pretty much the same, thanks guys, I had only heard of the units that did analog capture.

    So these DishPVR's (and others) are similiar to the Sky+ PVR we have here in the UK. It seems the main difference is that Sky+ stores the encrypted stream on the HD, and as Sky encryption has not been cracked yet (AFAIK), removing the HD is of little use.
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  19. Originally Posted by bugster
    So these DishPVR's (and others) are similiar to the Sky+ PVR we have here in the UK. It seems the main difference is that Sky+ stores the encrypted stream on the HD, and as Sky encryption has not been cracked yet (AFAIK), removing the HD is of little use.
    There is talk that if/when Murdoch buys DirectTV, an NTSCized Sky+PVR will be what DirectTV starts to sell to its customers (side by side with, or possibly instead of the DirectTiVos) That can only improve the chances of the encryption being cracked with another potential 10 Million DirectTV subs wanting what you want
    Cendyne/Pioneer 105 & 104 with a Dazzle* Hollywood DV-Bridge.
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  20. Member
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    Let me point out that opening up some Recievers will cause them to go brain dead. This is to prevent unauthorized acces (this applies to all new cable boxes as well). So..... Before you decide to poke around inside, make sure your unit doesn't have an anti-tamper switch in it.
    To Be, Or, Not To Be, That, Is The Gazorgan Plan
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  21. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    DISH is 480x480, and it does not at all use 640x480 or 544x480. No DSS or DVB signal uses 640x480. Only the DSS variant (used solely by DirecTV) uses the 544x480 resolution.
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  22. Originally Posted by westy
    mybe im missing something here but.. why dont u just capture direct from t.v/satalite to the pc via the t.v card. i have myne hooked up to the satalite box and record stright from the digital satalite to the pc and it auto saves it to mpeg 2. im possibly missing something here though.
    This is what i was planning to do, but i am worried about dropped frames. I have a dedicated computer for my burning and capturing, but when transferring vhs it seems to drop frames. I am thinking it is the capture card. It is an old ati-all-in-wonder 128. The computer is a amd1800 with one gig of pc2100 ram. I have 4 wd80gig harddrives with 8mb cache. I think the computer should be plenty fast enough.

    Maybe i should just upgrade the capture card. I was looking at the ati VE pro card.

    Also how would you set this up? Would you set your pc tuner to line input and then change channels on the dish receiver and/or recorder? I am assuming then you play it through the satellite and simply use the capture card to grab the video/audio and convert to an mpeg2 file.

    Thanks for the help guys.
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  23. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    DISH is 480x480, and it does not at all use 640x480 or 544x480. No DSS or DVB signal uses 640x480. Only the DSS variant (used solely by DirecTV) uses the 544x480 resolution.
    Not to step on your toes, but

    a. Dish is a DVB system but not totally standard, even the Mocdel 1000 I just looked at says DVB on the front.
    b. Most channels are 544 by 480
    c. some, mostly premiums and PPV are 640 by 480 probably for quality, but not a standard DVB resolution as far as I know.
    d. HD TV Channels I do not have or know.
    e. MPEG2 Video & MP2 or Ac3 audio
    f. Non standard GOP format

    I believe what the software I use reports as resolution when the video is ripped direct from the IRDs HD to the PC HD.

    Software that reports these resolutions and audio:

    TMPGenc DVD author (Complains unless I use DVDPatcher first)
    TMPGenc
    DVD Patcher
    DPVE, Video extractor software

    And of course the other people that do the same thing too.

    and from a sat tv forum: "Also, DirecTv digitizes red and blue components to half the resolution of the luminance as well. This is what is known as "4:2:0 digitization format" which both providers have published that they use." Maybe that is adding to the confusion?

    Bottom line for me is that the software all reports these two resolutions and if I patch to DVD res. Add to the author program and repatch back they fill the screen properly . So empirically to me that means they are these resolutions. Low bandwidth typical 1 to 2 gig hd space use for an hour show.

    IE a 40 gig drive in a 508 can hold up to 35 hours of video as well as guide data, timers, Dishnetwork reserved use area and so on. But the picture still beats the bleep out of the local cable company offering.

    I have seen reports that FTA receivers show 480 by 480, and maybe they also use that on the FTA channels to reduce bandwidth drain?

    the above is MHO and what I have observed
    YMMV
    Cheers
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  24. Originally Posted by stangyamahar1
    Originally Posted by westy
    mybe im missing something here but.. why dont u just capture direct from t.v/satalite to the pc via the t.v card. i have myne hooked up to the satalite box and record stright from the digital satalite to the pc and it auto saves it to mpeg 2. im possibly missing something here though.
    This is what i was planning to do, but i am worried about dropped frames. I have a dedicated computer for my burning and capturing, but when transferring vhs it seems to drop frames. I am thinking it is the capture card. It is an old ati-all-in-wonder 128. The computer is a amd1800 with one gig of pc2100 ram. I have 4 wd80gig harddrives with 8mb cache. I think the computer should be plenty fast enough.

    Maybe i should just upgrade the capture card. I was looking at the ati VE pro card.

    Also how would you set this up? Would you set your pc tuner to line input and then change channels on the dish receiver and/or recorder? I am assuming then you play it through the satellite and simply use the capture card to grab the video/audio and convert to an mpeg2 file.

    Thanks for the help guys.
    That's where the ADVC-100 come in, since it is mainly copying to your HD the CPU load is minimal

    Cheers
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  25. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    @TBoneIt.
    Then, as with all things technology, they've changed something. Again.
    http://www.coolstf.com/mpeg
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  26. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
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    well blow me down... Someone actualy discovered Rod's page...
    It took only 5 years!!!

    There are plenty 720 x 480 NTSC DVB transmissions... Most FTA / Feed channels transmitting from Panamsat satellites.

    You need a satellite dish of course to watch them and you need a good digital reciever
    Here is the one I use ( till 1998 - and I never gonna change my 9600 ever!) http://www.coolstf.com/mpeg/#nokiainfo
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  27. To you guys ,just hook the satelite box,either tivo or descrambler straight to the "all in wonder ati card" by ATI.Then,set your capture ati software to DVD, or MPEG 2 and done record on the PC hard drive,later open Nero and burn with expert feature on nero and done ,play it in any dvd.
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  28. Originally Posted by stangyamahar1
    This is what i was planning to do, but i am worried about dropped frames. I have a dedicated computer for my burning and capturing, but when transferring vhs it seems to drop frames. I am thinking it is the capture card. It is an old ati-all-in-wonder 128. The computer is a amd1800 with one gig of pc2100 ram. I have 4 wd80gig harddrives with 8mb cache. I think the computer should be plenty fast enough.
    I've found that the VCR was more responsible for dropping frames than any other hardware in the chain (but obviously not every capture card is created equal).

    1) Old VHS tapes (especially damaged sections) will give you lots of dropped frames
    2) Autotracking during capture can cause dropped frames, I've seen it with tracking manually set less than perfect have little dropped frames compared to a machine/tape that is constantly trying to auto-track.
    3) Dirty Heads on the VCR or Dirt on the Tape from a dirty head can cause frame drops.

    Anything that causes the Capture device to get confused can cause dropped frames.
    Cendyne/Pioneer 105 & 104 with a Dazzle* Hollywood DV-Bridge.
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  29. Originally Posted by TBoneit
    For Dps you'd join the Dishplayer Explorer Group on Yahoo Groups and for the 50x series you can Join the Dishrip Yahoo Group.

    Dishrip group has software that will extract the 501/8 video for you.
    Tutorials to convert etc.
    Yea, I followed the Dishplayer Explorer Group for a while. Had a 7200 but lost it to lightning. Now have a 508. One of the pics from the group showed a hot-swap HD enclosure on top of the 7200 so it was easy to swap between the DP and a PC. I'll check out the DishRip group and see how successful people are extracting files. Seems to be about an equal amount of hassle copying -vs- capturing so unless there is a substantial improvement in quality by copying, the capture route may be the choice.

    Thanks..
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  30. Originally Posted by gcutler
    Originally Posted by bugster
    Correct me if I am wrong, but don't both Tivo and Replay TV units use Analog inputs and encode to mpeg-2 internally. If so then this is no better (in quality terms at least) than can be achieved with a PC and capture card.
    Correct, but a DirectTiVo or UltimateTV or DishNetworkPVR (which are all combo sat reciever and PVR) will take the Satellite signal directly and encode to whatever they encode to, to the hard drive with minimal loss. So you end up with the best possible quality compared to a standalone TiVo or Replay. But the amount of effort required to pull the MPEG type data off the DirecTiVo or DishPVR hard drive may not be worth the trouble for most/many???

    IMHO if you take a COmbo Sat/PVR and S-Video to a PC Capture Device it will still be better than capturing off of a Standalone TiVo or Replay. But the quality of your capture device and encoding settings will obviously play a part in Quality
    Actually the DirecTivo and the Dishnetwork DVRs (PVRs) don't encode anything they just dump data stream off of the satellite to the hard drive.

    The Tivo standalones and Replay units have an encoder chip in them to encode on the fly from analog to digital and then dump to the hard drive.

    No real Effort required, takes 10 -15 minutes a title to extract depending on length and bitrate that was used.

    YMMV, but this way what quality was there is still there.

    Cheers
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