New DVD Recorders - TEST

[zorankarapancev]

Recently I had an opportunity to test drive (side by side) the newest DVD recorders Philips DVDR75, Panasonic DMR-E50/E60, Sony RDR-GX7 and PIONEER -310. These are mine observations:

Philips DVDR75 (this is DVD+R recorder):
- Pros: composite, SVHS, Firewire and component(!) input. Nice, slick design. With DVD+RW you can edit recorded video, split titles, insert chapters markers, insert title text and choose frame from video for title picture.
- Cons: recording quality is not exceptional, oversaturated picture with component input, washed out with SVHS input. Picture in 1 and 2 hour mode is visible softer and with less details then with other recorders. No VBR and FR mode of recording. Recording in 3hr mode is barely usable. Very sensitive to the quality of the incoming signals to all of the video inputs. Poorly designed remote. No Hard Drive.

I would not consider this model for my profesional work (video production and postproduction, standard video conversions and dubbings).

Panasonic DMR -E50:
- Pros: low price, very good recording (much better then Philips DVDR75), VBR and FR recording mode. Easy to use.
- Cons: no Firewire, average build quality. No Hard Drive

This is one of the best buys on a market today.

Panasonic DMR -E60: same as DMR-E50, except:
- Pros: Firewire and SD card and multimedia slots.
-Cons: Firewire input works only with DV cameras and DV players, not with computers.

This DVD recorder is even better value then DMR-E50.

Sony RDR- GX7:
- Pros: outstanding recording quality. The quality of the one hour mode is indistinguish from my BETACAM SP master. I could berely see a difference in 90 minutes mode, and the two hour mode is the best that I have ever seen from any other DVD recorder. With its powerful TBC it offers fine picture control on color saturation, color balance, brightness, contrast, as well as noise reduction for chroma and luma and contour enhancement on output and input side of the recorder! Firewire input accepts an output directly from the computer. VBR recording. Excelent build quality.
-Cons: No FR mode of recording, surprisingly long response time for some operations, no Hard Drive, expensive.

Pioneer DVR-310:

- Pros: composite, SVHS and DV (in/out) inputs, FR recording ( in 32 steps, each of 5 minutes), basic editing with DVD-RW discs (chapter edit, inserting chapter markers, title split...), you can view JPEG photos and pictures stored on a CD-ROM/R/RW, video adjustments (3-D Y/C, Detail, White and Black level, black setup, hue, chrome level, noise reduction and automatic white level adjustment) on input and output side of the recorder and audio adjustments (Virtual Surround), good build quality and good price.

- Cons: no hard drive. I was expecting better recording quality from this second generation of Pioneer recorders, specificly in 2 hour mode. In this regard SONY and PANASONIC are better machines.

My final, unofficial, top list of DVD recorders:

1. SONY RDR-GX7 - best recordings.
2. PANASONIC DMR-E50/60 - best value.
3. PIONEER DVR-310
4. PHILIPS DVDR-75

Too bad that SONY does not have FR mode of recording. For that reason only I bought PANASONIC DMR-E60 ( CDN $899.00). It will fulfill my video production and postproduction needs beter then any other DVD recorder.

[overloaded_ide]

So would the Panasonic DMR -E60 be the best bet for taking DV camcorder footage and making a DVD, then edit that dvd on the PC?

By edit, I mean mostly just cutting out sections and adding in menus and such, not true editing like sound track, color correction, etc..

[zorankarapancev]

So would the Panasonic DMR -E60 be the best bet for taking DV camcorder footage and making a DVD, then edit that dvd on the PC?

By edit, I mean mostly just cutting out sections and adding in menus and such, not true editing like sound track, color correction, etc..

First you should edit the camcorder footage on the PC and then burn DVD. Panasonic adds chapters automaticly every 5 minutes.
When I need DVD with menus and chapters (Holywood style movies) then I am using iDVD3 software with MacIntosh G4.

[broadway]

Hmmmm.

I am disappointed the 310 has a "worse" video quality than the E50.

Almost seems to make it not worth it to wait until November for the 510.

What to do. What to do. Sigh.

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[zorankarapancev]

I did this test because I had to find the most appropriate DVD Recorder for my business. I made my findings available on this forum to help other people (not everybady is lucky to play with five expensive toys at once), not to hurt somebodys fillings. This test was quite objective: I was using the same broadcast equipment for each testing and I am not emotionaly attached to any name or any particular company. All tested DVD recorders were taken from regular electronic shops in Toronto. I can accept the possibility that maybe some of the recorders were not properely adjasted from the factory, but that also speaks a lot about quality control at those companys. At the end, I noticed that only SONY and PANASONIC were made in Japan ( if that means anything to you).

[Alfer]

I for one am very happy with the features and video/sound quality of my DVDR75.

The video in the 1 and 2 hour (even the 2.5 hour) mode to me appears equal to the Directv source I record from..using S-Video.

My 2 cents.

Alfer

[donpedro]

Just to add my result

Philips DVDR75 (this is DVD+R recorder):
- Pros: Day/Time recorded as Subtitle when source if FireWire. Can play and burn PAL DVD (no conversion).
- Cons: Timer recording from S-Video source is B/W.

More details here : Philips DVDR 75/17 (US) - test results

[Alfer]

Cons: Timer recording from S-Video source is B/W.

I've never had this issue..I TIMER record a lot from my Directv (S-Video) at night and it looks great.

Another PRO for the DVDR75: Plays - and + DVDR's, Panny's can't play +R for the most part..some say they have luck, may don't though.

Again I burn - and + on my PC so I like being able to play both on the Philips without any problems.

[House de Kris]

Thanks for the comparison. You didn't happen to mention the one thing I'm curious about. Do all of these recorders save the sound as LPCM, or do some do 2-ch AC-3?

And, what's all this talk about SVHS? I thought we were talking about recording to disc, not tape. Oh, you mean S-video! Now that makes sense. How long have you been doing video "profesional work (video production and postproduction, standard video conversions and dubbings)"?

[Alfer]

They all record in Dubly Digital 2.0 (at least my Philips does)

[donpedro]

They all record in Dubly Digital 2.0 (at least my Philips does)

Same goes to Panasonic. AC-3

[zorankarapancev]

Thanks for the comparison. You didn't happen to mention the one thing I'm curious about. Do all of these recorders save the sound as LPCM, or do some do 2-ch AC-3?

And, what's all this talk about SVHS? I thought we were talking about recording to disc, not tape. Oh, you mean S-video! Now that makes sense. How long have you been doing video "profesional work (video production and postproduction, standard video conversions and dubbings)"?

I am in the broadcast video production and postproduction from 1983, standard video conversions and duplications from 1989.

[zorankarapancev]

Thanks for the comparison. You didn't happen to mention the one thing I'm curious about. Do all of these recorders save the sound as LPCM, or do some do 2-ch AC-3?

And, what's all this talk about SVHS? I thought we were talking about recording to disc, not tape. Oh, you mean S-video! Now that makes sense. How long have you been doing video "profesional work (video production and postproduction, standard video conversions and dubbings)"?

...and regarding LPCM : sound recordings made using LPCM require more information then usual. Consequently the picture quality of LPCM recordings may be less then that of normal XP(best quality) mode recording.

[Gil T Pleasure]

Philips DVDR75 (this is DVD+R recorder):
- Cons: ... No VBR and FR mode of recording. Recording in 3hr mode is barely usable.

Are you sure the Philips 75 doesn't have VBR recording? According to www.DVDplusRW.org, it does.

Thanks for the comparison. You didn't happen to mention the one thing I'm curious about. Do all of these recorders save the sound as LPCM, or do some do 2-ch AC-3?

I believe the Pioneer 7000 records audio in LPCM and 2 ch DD. Maybe the Pioneer 310/510 have the same capability.

[zorankarapancev]

In my best knowledge, I did not find anything in the Philips DVDR 75 owner manual or on the machine itself that will refer to VBR recording. I can be corected from the owners of this recorder: they can post the page number from their owner manual where eventualy VBR recording is announced as a recording tehnology used from this model.

Zoran

[tweedledee]

I'm looking at buying theGX7 or the E.50. Just one question. Does a hard drive( or the lack of one) make a lot of differance? Would I be missing out on anything if I buy a recorder without a hard drive?

[donpedro]

Well... big reason to buy one with HD would be that you can record more with Timer Recording (you don't have to wake up in the middle of the night to switch to new blank DVD)

Another one is that you can use it as VCR. Record, watch, delete. Burn only movies that you like to keep.

Also editing should be easier. (I am not sure if this is possibel) You can record 20GB in one chunk (with DVD it is only 4.37GB) and then later on cut it to smaller peaces.

It is all up to you.

[tweedledee]

So if you record onto the hard drive, can you then take some, or all, of that footage and transfer it to your computer and edit it?
Would'nt it be just as easy to record TV from your capture card?

If I buy one that has no hard drive, and uses dvd-rw, plus RAM, can I get at the RAM to save or edit it?
Sorry about the questions, but they are fairly rare in this country and the sales people don't know much either.

[donpedro]

So if you record onto the hard drive, can you then take some, or all, of that footage and transfer it to your computer and edit it?

Not to computer. To DVD (+ or -; R or RW or RAM). Then you can copy it to computer and do whatever you like.

Would'nt it be just as easy to record TV from your capture card?

No. It is not that easy to get same quality result through capture card. Most importantly out-of-sync issue is common for capture card. Also it is much more easier to record on stand alone recorder then to PC.

If I buy one that has no hard drive, and uses dvd-rw, plus RAM, can I get at the RAM to save or edit it?

Yes. You can edit on DVD+RW, DVD-RW or DVD-RAM. You can not record more then 4.37GB on them

[tweedledee]

Thanks Donpedro, you're a gentleman and a scholer.

[mopar7]

3hr mode on the DVDR75 is fine, depending on the input so is the 4 hr mode, and I also have had no timer problems, and so far have only done around 40 movies on it.

[markjj]

tweedledee.

I have the E50. I had to buy a dvd rom drive for the PC which read RAM discs so that pushed the overall price up a little (£40). That's probably the only thing to bear in mind. I have had no problems transferring films etc from the RAM disc onto PC then authoring with TmpgEnc DVD Author (excellent) / DVD Movie Factory 2 before burning onto dvd-r.

[tweedledee]

thanks. I never thoght of that. good idea

[overloaded_ide]

You can edit on DVD+RW, DVD-RW or DVD-RAM. You can not record more then 4.37GB on them

I could be wrong, but I though RAM disks hold about 9gigs??

[handyguy]

"I though RAM disks hold about 9gigs??"

If you flip them over, yes.

[Gil T Pleasure]

zorankarapancev,

If you still have the GX7, can you check to see if it actually uses the +VR recording mode? From what I gather, there should be a VIDEO_TS and a VIDEO_RM folders under the root directory. I believe the VIDEO_RM is used for the +VR recording mode so if the GX7 recorded +RW disc is missing that folder, then it doesn't use the +VR mode.

I'm curious to know if Sony actually crippled the +VR mode or not use it at all.

Thanks!

[donpedro]

When recording to Philips DVDR 75/17 DVD+RW, there is VIDEO_TS and VIDEO_RM folder.

[tompika]

What's in the VIDEO_RM folder?

edit: I did not read the previous post

[overloaded_ide]

If you flip them over, yes.

I don't think so, I think a flipper you flip over, DVD 4.7gig both sides, but RAM disks are 9 gigs one side, not flippers!

Also you need a RAM dirve to use Ram disks, Flippers are just DVD R.
You need the right format flipper - + for whatever R format drive you have. Ram disk is Ram disk. Sort of a 3rd format I think, before DVD R if I recall correctly!