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  1. Member
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    To quote Rodney King:

    "Can't we all just get along?"

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  2. Originally Posted by bluntman72
    "Can't we all just get along?"
    Of course we can
    You stop me again whilst I'm walking and I'll cut your fv<king Jacob's off.
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  3. Member
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    We'll all get along just fine as soon as all you - lovers step up and admit + is superior just kidding of course

    I dunno, both formats are good. This isn't like VHS vs Beta were there was a pretty large difference in formats. In the end all that matters is compatibility. All 3 of my DVD players support - and +, and anything burnt in my Pioneer DVR-104, or the NEC ND-1300A, so I'm happy. Whatever media is on sale is what I burn. If I had a + only drive I wouldn't have been able to buy TDK 25 pack for $30 at Best Buy, and if I had - only, I wouldn't have been able to get the good deal I got recently on Memorex +R's. Dual format really is the best way to go.

    I get really tired of seeing info like this posted cause all that matters is if the user is happy with their purchase as far as the drive and media go, and that it plays back well for them. The market is big enough for + and - to both do well IMO.
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  4. Member
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    I have no wish to wade into the format debate, but I did find this puzzling:

    "As where DVD+R is currently at 8 speed, a spokesman of the RWPPI told us that specifications for DVD-R will probably be released in the autumn (November) of 2003, and the first consumer devices will probably hit the market in spring 2004."

    Huh? I thought Pioneer was supposed to be coming out with an 8X DVD-R writer this year? Somebody doesn't have their facts straight (possibly me).
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  5. I thought Pioneer was supposed to be coming out with an 8X DVD-R writer this year
    Yea that's what I heard too! Most likely in time for holiday sales!

    I'll get me one for Christmas! 2004! In the mean time, I'll just be happy it further drops the price of 4x burners
    overloaded_ide

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  6. Member
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    I believe that drive is 8x for +R and 4x for -R. There is physical issues with -R going fast, that +R doesn't have to deal with. -R can't possibly do 16x speed, and there are issues with 8x.
    To Be, Or, Not To Be, That, Is The Gazorgan Plan
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  7. DVD-R/RW does have problems at higher speeds. The Addressing scheme
    that they use is flawed. The problem is the LPP. LPP is "Land Pre-pit" and it is used along with the wobble signal for addressing. The Problem is the drive has to detect a LPP. The LPP is adjacent to the groove where the laser is writing. The LPP is a small mark that is harder to detect when rotating at higher speeds. Also, there is nothing in the media info that tells the drive what the optimum write power is so developing good write strategies takes longer for DVD-R/RW.
    With +R/RW the addressing info is in the groove signal which is not affected as much by speed with todays DSPs. Also, the write parameters are in the media. This does not mean that write stratiges do not need to be developed it just takes less time.

    RG
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  8. Withdrawn
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  9. Philip,
    This is just a spec. I don't see a drive. I can write you a spec and never give you a date when it will be shipped. So what if RAM support was added. That might sell in Japan but not in the USA or Europe. We have Plextor writing at 8X on 4X +R media now. You will see next year when Write speeds are at 16X on +R and DVD-R will still be stuck on 8X. And yes addressing scheme does make a difference. When the laser has to look-aside and see a Pit on the land when it is writing on the groove it does get a little more hairy. Let me ask you this, why is the Forum not stepping up to the plate and meeting the speed bar? Other than trying to jump into the Dual drive market, Why did Pioneer add +R/RW support to their drive?
    See the hand writing on the wall. If +R/RW wins the Speed race that will do great damage to -R/RW usuage.

    RG
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  10. Bazinga! MJPollard's Avatar
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    "The + format is better!"
    "The - format is better!"
    "Is not!"
    "Is too!"
    "Well, you're a stinky smelly-poo!"
    "Am not!"
    "Are too!"

    Don't you people ever tire of this?
    Don't sweat the petty things, just pet the sweaty things.
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  11. BlaaBlaa... Strange that there is still this + against - "war" going on...

    Now some of the DVDRW manufacturers are crying that multiformat (or minus format) writers are sooooooo expencive to manufacture. Well why is the (+)-format discs so expencive to manufacture? It's not only the price of the drive... the price of the media is important too! And when there is this -/+ issue the prices are lower.. competition will keep the prices down...

    We have Plextor writing at 8X on 4X +R media now.
    Wow... the only manufacturer in the market that has this 6-8X writer on the market... I have that writer in computer right now. The only dissapointment is that there is only the ZCLV for 8X writing (and only 2Mb buffer)...
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  12. [/quote]Wow... the only manufacturer in the market that has this 6-8X writer on the market... I have that writer in computer right now. The only dissapointment is that there is only the ZCLV for 8X writing (and only 2Mb buffer)..

    The Pioneer 107 will be 8X ZCLV also. So no improvement there. There will be several 8X +R writers released before the end of the year- NEC, Philips, Benq. The Benq drive has a 8MB buffer.

    RG
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    This bickering about 8 and 16 speed is rather pointless. In 15 minutes I can burn a full DVD at 4X...thats fast enough for me. I never went beyond a 24X CDRW drive, I see no reason to get a DVD burner faster than 4X. Am I alone in thinking anything higher is a bit excessive? I don't even mind 1X or 2X burning that much.
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  14. The Pioneer 107 will be 8X ZCLV also. So no improvement there. There will be several 8X +R writers released before the end of the year- NEC, Philips, Benq. The Benq drive has a 8MB buffer.

    RG
    Yes I know... but why there is ZCLV for + format in the plextor? If the + format can handle better the higher writing speeds? 8)

    Well I would never again buy the NEC because the poor writing quality... Benq sounds something cheap... :P Plextor/Pioneer=Quality. Others just try to follow...
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  15. Member
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    -Gazorgan wrote:

    -R can't possibly do 16x speed, and there are issues with 8x.

    Perhaps you are not familar with this...

    Tearren

    Sharp announced new IC for 16X DVD recording
    Tuesday, 30 September 2003

    Sharp announced a new series of IC's, allowing 16x DVD recording. The first samples of the "GA301TXW1MZ" will be available in Japan by the middle of November, at a price of 200 Yen. Mass production is planned by December 26, and the estimated product volume will be 5,000 per month.
    The new IC will be formalized under the OPIC (Optical IC) trademark, already registered by Sharp. It offers 16x maximum DVD recording speed for all DVD formats (DVD+R/+RW/-R/-RW), while is also capable of 60x maximum writing for CD-R/RW and 16x DVD-ROM reading. Note that according to the manufacturer of each DVD writer, those specifications can be limited.
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  16. Originally Posted by DeleriumMDK
    This bickering about 8 and 16 speed is rather pointless. In 15 minutes I can burn a full DVD at 4X...thats fast enough for me. I never went beyond a 24X CDRW drive, I see no reason to get a DVD burner faster than 4X. Am I alone in thinking anything higher is a bit excessive? I don't even mind 1X or 2X burning that much.
    I don't mind waiting 15min either but it's the "gee-whiz" factor and "being the first one on your block" that keeps technology moving forward.Manufacturers also have to implement new features to keep ahead of the competition,has been for hundreds of years(e.g. when you wanted a better sword or wagon) and will continue to.

    For the topic at hand,I have a dual format writer but all I use now is +R.
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  17. Originally Posted by DeleriumMDK
    This bickering about 8 and 16 speed is rather pointless. In 15 minutes I can burn a full DVD at 4X...thats fast enough for me. I never went beyond a 24X CDRW drive, I see no reason to get a DVD burner faster than 4X. Am I alone in thinking anything higher is a bit excessive? I don't even mind 1X or 2X burning that much.
    I'm with you. I can already burn 4.7G in 15 minutes.... on a multiformat drive that cost me $130 shipped.... and its now dropped to $120. At this point, I could care less about 8x or 16x. If your activity is.... say... creating home movies are (heaven forbid) ripping and copying a movie, then the actual production of the contents to be burned takes much more time than the burning process. For example, I might spend several hours capturing, editing, assembling(with fades, cuts, background music, etc), authoring (menus, chapters, opening stuff), and 15 minutes to burn.

    p.s. I *always* buy 4x media now because the negligible price difference in media is worth the 15 minutes its saves!
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  18. Originally Posted by MOVIEGEEK
    For the topic at hand,I have a dual format writer but all I use now is +R.
    I burn about 1000-1200 DVDR's/year so I would loose quite much if I only use the + media... the price gap is still too big 8)
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  19. Member
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    > In 15 minutes I can burn a full DVD at 4X...thats fast enough for me. I never went beyond a 24X CDRW drive, I see no reason to get a DVD burner faster than 4X. Am I alone in thinking anything higher is a bit excessive? I don't even mind 1X or 2X burning that much.

    You might not mind, but many people have other things for their computer to do besides burn DVDs.

    At one time in my life I was happy with a Pentium 1 76 MHz processor. And I can remember the first PC I ever had with a massive 20 meg hard drive- I couldn't imagine how I'd ever need a HD larger than 20 meg.

    So, is faster necessary? Probably not for everybody- right now. Is it excessive? No more excessive that a 5 gig HD was 6-7 years ago, or a 1 GHz processor was 3-4 years ago.

    Fast enough for you doesn't mean fast enough for everybody.
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  20. Member
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    I never said fast enough for me was fast enough for everyone. I asked if I was alone in thinking 4X is fast enough, and I'm not.
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  21. "Is DVD+ finally winning the Format wars?"

    Is Nestles or Cadburys finally winning the Chocolate wars?

    Is Trim Milk finally winning the Milk wars over Full Cream Milk??

    Oh my God, how will I sleep at night, worrying about all of this
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  22. Member
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    For Adder_78 , are you comparing cheap unreliable -R media to good quality +R media when you make your statements ? I dont care if they cost 10 cents a piece , if they dont work what good are they ? There is no real difference in the price of quality media be it - or + . You get what you pay for .
    Keep it on the big cam !
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  23. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Yeah, sure, DVD+R is winning. That's what you wanted to hear right?

    If it will shut some of you people up, just pick the one you want to hear:
    1. DVD+R is winning
    2. DVD-R is winning.
    3. Neither are winning.

    Just pick your answer and move on with your life. I've only been one these boards a few months, but this is by far the most useless thing that gets discussed.

    Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah .... this is all I hear. Worse than a nagging ex-girlfriend.

    Mine goes faster. Mine's bigger than yours. Blah blah blah.

    Sorry. In a bad mood tonight. That felt good.
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  24. What is a DVD? I'm still stuck on Filming off my black and white TV with my super 8.
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  25. Greetings Supreme2k's Avatar
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    It's all about 8-track, yo.

    I like to connect my Zip drive to the tv and watch my 30 disk span of a single half-hour show. The cool thing is that I have them labeled, so I know which one to put in next.

    Also, when I get groceries and they say "Paper or Plastic?", I say "BOTH!" :P
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  26. Member
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    > I never said fast enough for me was fast enough for everyone. I asked if I was alone in thinking 4X is fast enough

    Actually that's not what you asked. The sentence with the question mark was "Am I alone in thinking anything higher is a bit excessive?"

    You may not be alone, but there's still a difference between 'fast enough' and 'excessive'.
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  27. Member Faustus's Avatar
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    I don't see how we continue to have this discussion when its clear that DVD%RW is the clear winner.
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  28. It seems to me that on forums like this n others the majority seem to favour DVD-R, with the most popular writers being the Pioneer and the most popular DVD recorder being the panasonic DMR range BUT in the high street/Joe public scenario its diff mainly coz a) Mr Joe Public doesnt know what he wants and b) Staff in High Street electronic shops (dixons, etc in the UK) dont really know what they are talking about.

    Most adverts for major electronic chains just say DVD Recorder or Writer they often dont mention wether its - or + or RAM, the Phillips DVD+ recorder is being pushed hard n wouldnt suprise me if its the best selling, but I certainly dont think its a good as the Panasonic range especially as they have great flexibility using DVD-Ram discs.

    At the end of the day as long as DVD- and DVD+ R discs are still manufactured n remain cheap it doesnt matter.
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  29. Originally Posted by vtecwil
    For Adder_78 , are you comparing cheap unreliable -R media to good quality +R media when you make your statements ? I dont care if they cost 10 cents a piece , if they dont work what good are they ? There is no real difference in the price of quality media be it - or + . You get what you pay for .
    Well there is good DVD-R media for ~1 euro (delivered from UK -> Finland)... I have not ever see any + media that is that cheep and reliable... BTW In here Finland all good DVD media is about 4-5 euros 8)

    Well I also get free (+/-) media to my "testlab"... 8)
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