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  1. Member
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Originally Posted by sidewinder33625
    Its just a matter of time before DVD+R becomes the dominant format. .
    Oh yeah, absolutely.

    And mustard and mayonnaise will be abolished soon too. Ketchup is the leading product by a mile.
    ARE YOU BLOODY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I LOVE MUSTARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  2. Originally Posted by CHAOS
    ARE YOU BLOODY INSANE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I LOVE MUSTARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    I think I'm going to make a Mustard-Mayo war thread
    because I just LOVE MAYONNAISE
    You stop me again whilst I'm walking and I'll cut your fv<king Jacob's off.
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  3. You all are insane!
    Miracle Whip is way better.
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  4. I'm holding out for DVD*RW.
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  5. All I can say is that I only use DVD-R for now I go to compusa ever three week's and buy a ten pack for $7.99 there one 1X but sho care's for $7.99. Both format will stay MAC is a big supporter of DVD-R and I'm not a MAC user im a PC user. HP is backing DVD+R and HP does sell alot of PC's. There's room for both format's. I was think of buying a Pioneer AO6 or wait until AO7 came out but now I'm not buy a new burner until there a dual layer burner that burner burner's both DVD-+R. Burning 8.5 is just around te corner.
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  6. I can burn a CD in 2:50 (170 secs). I can burn a DVD in 15:10 (910 secs).

    CD = 700MB
    DVD = 4370MB

    700/170 = 4.17MB/sec
    4370/910 = 4.8MB/sec.

    As you can see, there is not all that much difference, the only advantage of DVD is the superior capacity and quality.

    But that will change soon once 8x matures.

    In the end I think a cartridge based format will always win. Something in the form of a hard drive, but with one physical disc inside. That you can just insert into your computer and burn as fast as hell.

    Lets think about it...

    120GB = 60

    1 = 2GB

    4.37GB = 1

    1 = 4.37GB

    So you are getting about 2x as much bang for your buck. But hard drives can transfer data at least 50MB sec i think for the new ones...

    Which is 5x faster than 8x DVD+R

    Lets just cast our minds way into the future. The limit will be reached when we can no longer see the difference between (for example) a uncompressed 8192x6144 and an uncompressed 16384x12288 image. You would obviously need a monitor of TV good enought to preview it like that. To be honest, my 17" monitor performs perfectly at 1024x768.

    Now, I think the ideal size for a TV of that resolution would be 40" (60cm).

    40/17 = 2.35x (1024x768) = 2400x1800

    Ok, so I will reach the limit when 2400x1800 perfect quality films become availiable. Any media that can hold that much data will be enough.

    So no film company will need any better media.

    I think we're pretty close to that kind of quality right now (albeit at a very high price).





    Anyway, in the future I predict people will download movies on to the hard drives and shops will no longer sell DVDs.

    Its already been planned with games. Its just a matter of time.

    *Hopes he's thrown the topic off-topic*

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  7. Banned
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    1. How true is the information from cdrinfo about -r dual layer?
    2. No firmware upgrades?...all our current burner(s) will die soon.
    3. Life of the 2 formats seems short and I'm worried...I'm not rich to shell out another new format burner and I'm only a -r user.
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  8. Member
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    Wow. That's a powerful statement. I tried that method and ended up with discs that started skipping and freezing after continuous use (GQ's made by "Lead Data"). Never again. Riteks, Fujifilm (the 10 packs from Japan), or Memorex are pretty much all I trust now. I'm actually interested in trying a couple other bulk brands that are about as reliable is Riteks, but that might cost a bit less, so if anyone has any suggestions, I'm open to hear them.
    Ok well, not literally "whatever is on sale" but, whatever is on sale and is good media. I got some good Memorex +R's for a nice price but I wouldn't touch their -R's with a 10 foot pole, on sale or not. If it isn't on sale, I stick to brands I know and trust, like Ritek and TDK. Any Ritek or TDK coasters I've had have been the result of mistakes I made, all play back perfectly if I don't make any errors though.
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  9. Banned
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    DVD "(Dual Layer) Format War" part 2?

    http://www.pioneer.co.jp/press/release125.html
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  10. Originally Posted by DeleriumMDK
    This bickering about 8 and 16 speed is rather pointless. In 15 minutes I can burn a full DVD at 4X...thats fast enough for me. I never went beyond a 24X CDRW drive, I see no reason to get a DVD burner faster than 4X. Am I alone in thinking anything higher is a bit excessive? I don't even mind 1X or 2X burning that much.
    Are you serious? Again, if the minus camp was out first with 16x DVD recording you would be preaching it high on the hills and screaming that you'll be first in line to purchase it. Give credit where credit is due! So I guess you never saw the need to purchase anything past a Pentium II 233MHz cause heck, Win95 runs fine on that and you don't need anything faster or a better OS cause everything runs on a P2/Win95 system. Not everyone shares your myopic view of the computer hardware scene. If they did Intel would have stopped at 386SX processors and Microsoft would have recently announced that they just added USB support to DOS 3.5 for the hard core folks who don't need/want a fancy GUI.
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  11. Originally Posted by ZenZen
    "Is DVD+ finally winning the Format wars?"

    Is Nestles or Cadburys finally winning the Chocolate wars?
    If they help you run a race faster or help you be more productive, YES!

    Originally Posted by ZenZen
    Is Trim Milk finally winning the Milk wars over Full Cream Milk??
    See my above statement.
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  12. Originally Posted by andydd
    It seems to me that on forums like this n others the majority seem to favour DVD-R
    I doubt that but if they do it's because when DVD writers first hit, a lot of people adopted it. When something better came along (+)....people had to justify keeping their minus drives and went bezerk when a superior product showed them up. They can't compute that life moves on and you either go with it or get burried and left behind.

    If your first car was a POS and 2 years later somebody offered you a brand new BMW, would you pass on it? Only an idiot would. People clinging onto minus are holding on to a format on life support and need to let go and get a + drive. I predict they'll be the first to offer dual layer recording and higher speed drives. Sure, when Blu-ray hits I'll get one of those too but until then, I want dual layer burning and the fastest DVD recording speeds possible....if it's with PLUS format, so be it.

    Originally Posted by andydd
    At the end of the day as long as DVD- and DVD+ R discs are still manufactured n remain cheap it doesnt matter.
    Agreed.
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  13. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by john1290
    When something better came along (+)....people had to justify keeping their minus drives and went bezerk when a superior product showed them up. They can't compute that life moves on and you either go with it or get burried and left behind.
    Typical +RW Alliance bullshit. The + drives came out after the - format because the +RW forum couldn't get their act together. It had nothing to do with one being the next generation or being "superior". The +RW Alliance (known as something else at the time) failed with the 3GB in lab tests. Took them long enough to catch up with the rest of the - format. They literally scrambled to catch up to DVD-R after Pioneer beat the 3GB disc with a near-DVD5 4.7GB disc (Pioneer did it with little warning). And + is a rogue format, not the official one of the DVD Forum, and without DVD spec help (brainstorming), it took them longer to develop on their own. Their rushing the final product is also why so many early DVD+R and DVD+RW discs were incompatible with DVD-Video players (mostly fixed since their early days).
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  14. Originally Posted by spiderman2k1
    All I can say is that I only use DVD-R for now I go to compusa ever three week's and buy a ten pack for $7.99 there one 1X but sho care's for $7.99. Both format will stay MAC is a big supporter of DVD-R and I'm not a MAC user im a PC user. HP is backing DVD+R and HP does sell alot of PC's.
    Hmmmm..... apple supports the minus format and sells what....3 PCs a year? Whoops....make that 6 a year...(forgot to factor in a starving "artist" living somewhere in a New York loft and a school and a church.

    On the other side we have Sony, HP, Dell, etc etc selling about.....80 bagillion PCs a year with DVD+ drives...........hmmmmmm.....wonder what the future holds in store for minus.....what's that up a head? Is that a black hol ........

    So long minus!! Been nice knowing ya.
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  15. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Typical +RW Alliance bullshit. The + drives came out after the - format because the +RW forum couldn't get their act together.
    And look how fast and far DVD+ has come in such a short time. Will be first out of the gate with dual layer recording and first to reach 16x recording. If it wasn't for DVD+ eating market share, you minus people would be crawling along with 1x burning for eternity.

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    And + is a rogue format, not the official one of the DVD Forum, and
    OMG....what are we DVD+ people to do without the ever important 'DVD Video' logo?!?! ARGH!?!??!?!!?!?!?!?!! Guess when I watch my DVD+ discs on every DVD player I've tested them on I wasn't really watching my video???

    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    Their rushing the final product is also why so many early DVD+R and DVD+RW discs were incompatible with DVD-Video players (mostly fixed since their early days).
    Say what? The only thing the first gen. DVD+ drives lacked was the ability to write to +R media. When the DVD- drives first came out, if they could only write to -RW discs, they would have stunk too. Thankfully, Philips and the gang got their shit together and the 2nd gen. DVD+ drives could write to +R media and all was well. And remember kids, -RW and +RW are nearly identical in the ol' compatibility department!!! Same can be said for -R and +R!!!!!
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  16. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    The earliest DVD-R drives by Pioneer were supposed to be 4x drives, but media was not available. They settled for 2x from the start. Drives speeds are currently limited by many hardware factors (even 8x starts at 6x or slower, much like 52x CD-R burning starts much closer to 12x). Don't expect 16x drives to make you 3-minute discs or dual-layer DVD9 discs anytime soon.

    DVD+ isn't eating any market share. The dual-format drives are.
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  17. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    The earliest DVD-R drives by Pioneer were supposed to be 4x drives, but media was not available.
    The Plextor (that supports MT. Rainier - You just wrote in a thread that none supported it) does NOT need 8xmedia to write at 8x. (reliable burn!)
    The Liteon writes 2.4xmedia at 4x!
    Living in a Princo-world makes you blind, lordsmurf

    When the PioneerA07 comes out let me know whether it writes most of the 4x-medias at 8x (CLV?!) and its compatible


    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    DVD+ isn't eating any market share. The dual-format drives are.
    True
    You stop me again whilst I'm walking and I'll cut your fv<king Jacob's off.
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  18. Member
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    Are you serious? Again, if the minus camp was out first with 16x DVD recording you would be preaching it high on the hills and screaming that you'll be first in line to purchase it. Give credit where credit is due! So I guess you never saw the need to purchase anything past a Pentium II 233MHz cause heck, Win95 runs fine on that and you don't need anything faster or a better OS cause everything runs on a P2/Win95 system. Not everyone shares your myopic view of the computer hardware scene. If they did Intel would have stopped at 386SX processors and Microsoft would have recently announced that they just added USB support to DOS 3.5 for the hard core folks who don't need/want a fancy GUI.
    First things first, Im running a P4 with Windows XP, 256 MB Ram, 40 GB HDD and I even have broadband. I'm not against new technology, I'm against pointless bickering about 8X and 16X burning when I can burn 4.3 GB in 27 minutes or so. Im 100% for advancements, BUT only when I think its needed. I was on a 400 MHZ PC up till last year, and the day my PC came in you have no clue the joy I felt. 400 MHZ to 1.6 GHZ is a substantial leap. Burning 4.3 GB in 7 minutes as opposed to 27 or 28 minutes is a leap I don't necesarily care to take, not right now anyways. Great for everyone who wants that speed. Me? I don't need it and a few other folks agreed with me. Someone else made a similar statement before like yours about PC speeds and guess what, this still is NOT a fair comparison to recordable DVD media. 75 MHZ processor with 16 MB of ram and a 1 GB hard drive is...quite a difference from 1.6 GHZ processor, 256 MB of RAM and 40 GB hard drive, wouldn't you say?

    Oh and by the way, Im using a Pioneer DVR-104 but I'm also burning stuff on an ND-1300A and I even sort of prefer using + media lately. Not everyone who doesn't care about 8X burners is a Pioneer loving loser whos trying to convince themself the format they chose is a winner. That statement had NO validity as far as this discussion is concerned, and you had no room to make such a judgement on me because I feel burning 4.3 GB in under half an hour is acceptable. Don't assume all this about me from one or two statements.
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  19. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tompika
    The Plextor (that supports MT. Rainier - You just wrote in a thread that none supported it) does NOT need 8xmedia to write at 8x. (reliable burn!)The Liteon writes 2.4xmedia at 4x!
    Well, I stand corrected about Mt. Rainier on the Plextor. I'd heard the opposite, but you keep closer tabs on DVD+R than I do.

    But the media burning is related to several factors. One is the media and the second is the velocity and writing style. Most burns start at 1x or 2x (yes, even the 4x or 8x burns). It's the same reason a 52x disc still takes 2-3 minutes to burn - it's not really going 52x the whole time, just for a small portion of that time. It's the gaining velocity of the disc (outer spins faster than the inner) and the method by which its written.

    I would say this is analogous to the old Ritek G3 1x working great at 2x speeds. The media was good. Faster drive, faster media, same situation.

    I'm watching. We'll see where it goes. But dual-format is here to stay.

    And I'm not a huge fan of Princo either. They're okay, but surely not the best. Not even close. They work (mostly), and we'll leave it at that.
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    I think the war is very much over with the large drop and availability of + and - R DVD writers.

    BUT .... I have noticed one difference between the formats. It is that -R is a lot more compatibile with stand alone DVD players because it was out sooner. Many of the older ones cannot handle +R.

    Other than that, I get whatever cost less.

    I do hope that all of the greedy, controlling, idiotic, selfish vendors that have held up technology with this format thing, take fall into a large vat of stock options and never make it out.

    How about all of us come up with a new format DVD (), this will only work on DVDs that are modified and used by us. Don't license it to any named vendors like Sony, Motorola, HP, Yamaha, Samsung, Panasonic, on and on. Just license it to those small vendors that have had their players and burners open for regular firmware upgrades, allowing flexibility ot region code etc.
    These will be sold at a very, very reasonible price only via the web.

    A new company, International Technology Workers.


    Jon
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  21. Member
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    -r has the benefit it seems to play in a lot more players.

    Its the only one that will consistently play in my Panny A360.

    When it takes 2+hours to encode a high quality AVI file, another 30mins to mark the track points and create the menus - I'm not particularly fussed if it takes 5, 15 or 30 mins to burn a disk.

    Personally I just want burns that work consistently first time.
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  22. Banned
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    Do you really worry about the future?

    I will buy a Sony DVD9 Dual Format or LG DVD9 Multi-Format when the price goes down however if Pioneer offers a firmware DVD9 upgrade (no one knows) I'll stick to it until my 104 dies. By that time DVD9%R "might be" the dominant because of the speed, compatibility and was first to release (just like Pioneer did with -R) dual layer burner. Around year 2008 there will be Blu-ray "write-once" Year 2013 Ricoh and Panasonic will introduce a 1.5TB optical disc.
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  23. The best that the -R/RW camp can hold out for is that dual format burners become dominant because the market is swinging inexorably behind the +R/RW format.

    Point 1. The technology statements from the +R/RW camp are exceeding the other camp (x8 and the dual layer - which *could* be incompatible)

    Point 2. The dominant forces in the PC market are lining up behind +R/RW (HP, DELL, ASUS, Benq)

    Point 3. There is no point 3.

    That said when the -R drives/disks start becoming unavailable it will be well time for new drives etc and they should be well under $100 and thus affordable to replace.

    PS. I own a dual format burner so I am somewhat agnostic but this is situation as I see it.
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  24. All very true

    Point 1 reinforced by the demonstrations at Ceatec Japan of Dual layer DVD+R actually working! 8x DVD+R media in the flesh.

    See http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/8146

    KDH
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  25. Member
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    neither won.......

    dual layer burners are probably coming out next year.

    of course there will be + and - of those as well
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  26. I just don't understand why some of you are complaining that there is two formats? Why you want only one format? Why you want higher prices for media/writers? You just have to be stupid if you think that less competition in the market should lower the prices. Just think little bit and you may understand why the media is so cheap now. And because there is competition they will develope more nice features to customers like dual layer etc... so dont whine... just be happy! 8)
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  27. They have been trying to sell 5 nice HP computers with DV+R drives for 579.00 usd on ubid.com for two or 3 weeks now and they still have three left. Draw your own conclusions. ...... harrymj3
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  28. Originally Posted by harrymj3
    They have been trying to sell 5 nice HP computers with DV+R drives
    Yo harry!
    You just found a brand new format.

    Thats my conclusion...
    You stop me again whilst I'm walking and I'll cut your fv<king Jacob's off.
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  29. Maybe they are overpriced or the wrong color or old or ... any one of a 100 reasons... God knows why people dont buy stuff on ubid (which can be quite expensive compared to regular online stores). To even suggest that they are not being sold because of the DVD writer is laughable.
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  30. Bazinga! MJPollard's Avatar
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    The only thing that's laughable here are these stupid "format wars" (which have now officially been brought up for the zillionth time). People, use whatever you like and be happy with it, and stop trying to act like a bunch of fourth-rate Oral Roberts wannabes by "converting" the "unwashed heathens." You're wasting precious time that could be used for other, more productive things.
    Don't sweat the petty things, just pet the sweaty things.
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