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  1. Ehem...

    My dvd-player plays both + and -
    my dvd-burner reads both + and -
    my dvd-burner can copy dvd-r to dvd+r 1 on 1 (it's a + writer)

    So.... wether I would have bought a - writer or + writer, it would
    not have mattered!

    So this whole thing about which system wins is quite useless!

    Just buy the writer which suits you most, for me that was the + writer
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  2. Member
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    Originally Posted by BobK
    Actually that's not what you asked. The sentence with the question mark was "Am I alone in thinking anything higher is a bit excessive?"

    You may not be alone, but there's still a difference between 'fast enough' and 'excessive'.
    People have been accustomed for years to waiting only 5 minutes or less to burn a CD-R. With that in mind, waiting around for even 15 minutes for a 4X DVDR is excessive -- excessively slow. And 2X burns are an eternity, especially if you're doing data backups. Faster is always better, IMHO, assuming burn quality isn't sacrificed and your system can keep up.
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    I don't see how we continue to have this discussion when its clear that DVD%RW is the clear winner
    Nah....DVD#RW is the way to go......for now....later it will be DVD&RW....then DVD-Rf@#$@k'nW

    Seriously though, I bought a - burner a while back. If + works out better value in the future, I'll get that instead.

    There aren't many new burners coming out these days that don't burn to both so I don't see what the issue is...+ - or whatever. If the end result plays in your DVD player or DVD ROM, who cares ?
    "Weekends don't count unless you spend them doing something completely pointless."

    Bartman 8)
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  4. [quote="MetalunaPeople have been accustomed for years to waiting only 5 minutes or less to burn a CD-R. With that in mind, waiting around for even 15 minutes for a 4X DVDR is excessive -- excessively slow. And 2X burns are an eternity, especially if you're doing data backups. Faster is always better, IMHO, assuming burn quality isn't sacrificed and your system can keep up.[/quote]

    "For years"??? LOL. CD-R is (realistically) only about 5 years old. People have been burning at 5 minutes for about 2 years. Instead of burning 7 CD-R at 5 minutes apiece (35 minutes) you are burning 1 DVD in 15 minutes. You are comparing apples to oranges, both in times to burn and in what can be burned. Burning a DVD in 15 minutes at 4x is so much better than CD-R at 52x in 5 minutes that , well, bragging on CD-R burning speed is absurd.
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  5. Obeck hit the nail squarely on the head when replying to Metaluna.

    Metaluna:
    being able to burn a 700 Meg CD in 5 minutes is incredible!
    Being able to burn a 4.7 Gig DVD in 15 minutes is FRIGGIN incredible!!

    If you were to compare apples and organges for the sake of this argument, you'd see that 4.7 Gigs is roughly 7 Full CD's worth of information. By using the 5 minute argument, 7 Full CD's worth of burning will take you like 35-40 minutes!

    And you're complaining that 15 minutes for a full DVD is too SLOW!!!???

    Are you on something???
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    Originally Posted by obeck
    "For years"??? LOL. CD-R is (realistically) only about 5 years old. People have been burning at 5 minutes for about 2 years. Instead of burning 7 CD-R at 5 minutes apiece (35 minutes) you are burning 1 DVD in 15 minutes. You are comparing apples to oranges, both in times to burn and in what can be burned. Burning a DVD in 15 minutes at 4x is so much better than CD-R at 52x in 5 minutes that , well, bragging on CD-R burning speed is absurd.

    It's all relative. As technology rises so do expectations. True, you are putting much more data on a DVD-R. But, you have also raised the bar on what you are trying to accomplish with the media as well, so there's much more data that needs to be stored in the first place. In other words, now you are storing DVD quality video instead of VCD-quality video, but it's still little Timmy's birthday party either way. Except that now it takes 15 minutes to burn when it used to take 5-10. We also have 200GB hard drives now that need to be backed up instead of whatever was typical when CD writers were hitting 16X (probably 20-30GB). You can never be "fast enough" in this environment.

    By your argument, nobody would ever feel frustrated with their computer for being too slow, because they would always just think back to how slow their application would be if they tried to run it on an Apple II, and feel satisfied. Yet we all know this doesn't happen. People *do* get frustrated despite the fact that computers are massively better than they used to be and they are doing ten times more sophisticated work than they used to. As I said, expectations rise with the technology.
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  7. Member marvel2020's Avatar
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    To The Tune of "We Shall Not Be Move", i'll will sing this song.....


    I, I Don't, I Don't Give A F**k,
    I, I Don't, I Don't Give A F**k,
    About Who Wins, The The Silly Fu*king Format War,
    I Don't Give A F**k
    I Have Always Been Here

    Toshiba Regza 37Z3030D, Toshiba HD XE1 + EP-10 ( Both Multiregioned), Samsung BD-P1500 Blu Ray. OPPO DV-983H
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  8. Withdrawn
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  9. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    Metaluna, if 15 minutes is too much for you, find a new hobby.

    Seriously.

    After capturing for hours, editing, possibly encoding for hours, authoring, making all your images for the menus and cases, etc... then you're gonna bitch about 10 extra minutes and even then, compare it to some crappy by-gone format (the CD). I take a 15-minute break when it's time to burn. The ass-groove in my computer chair is already bad enough.

    If you want to make strides in making people happier about video, find a way to speed up the other processes. The burning time is the least important thing, especially when 8x arrives at a cool 7-10 minutes.

    And again, 15 minutes assumes you fill up the full disc at 4x.
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    lordsmurf,

    Your point is well taken. I personally am reasonably satisfied with 4X, though 6-12 months from now who knows. I'm just trying to argue what I think the market in general will demand and why.
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  11. The drive has already been demo'd and shown officially (not just a PDF spec!) by Asus who OEM from Pioneer. It is out there with media manufacturers as we speak, don't fight it The specifications are not surprising as these have been known and talked about here and there since the release of the A06.
    Asus demoed a Lab Queen. I don't see any write results. What did they demo, the tray could open and close?

    DVD-R isn't very far behind, and only delayed due to the more strict testing and verification requirements of the DVD Forum, which isn't no bad thing if it means a good end product and less issues at launch.
    What testing are you referring to? You mean write quality and compatibility? I guess thats not done by the +RW alliance. I think you need to rephrase your response. Actually, it is delayed because they are trying to overcome their technology limitations. Mostly, LPP addressing.

    RG
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  12. Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    After capturing for hours, editing, possibly encoding for hours, authoring, making all your images for the menus and cases, etc... then you're gonna bitch about 10 extra minutes and even then, compare it to some crappy by-gone format (the CD). I take a 15-minute break when it's time to burn. The ass-groove in my computer chair is already bad enough.
    A somewhat sound argument if all one ever does is DVD-Video
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    Originally Posted by MOVIEGEEK
    For the topic at hand,I have a dual format writer but all I use now is +R.
    Yep!! i have a dual burner and find myself using + about 100/1, + seems to be getting cheaper at faster speeds, around my area anyways, buy a spindle of 50 dvd-r at 2.4X or dvd+r at 4X, with only 8 cents diff. per disc, i think i'll have to buy the + 4X. funny how around my area - was way cheaper than + just a few months ago ??
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  14. Metaluna makes a point that we cannot overlook. A lot of the sheeples "perception" of time is different. They are not as educated as those who are on this board and they will think, "why can't I burn a DVD as fast as a CD". They don't care about the technology behind it, and their warped perception is their reality.
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    Hey adder_78 I pay no more than 1.20 dollars U.S. for RICOHJPN01 discs . Thes discs never fail , and play on every modern ( less than 3 years old ) standalone player I have tried . So , whats the conversion rate from U.S. to Euro ?
    Keep it on the big cam !
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  16. chaos,

    I noticed the same thing(I'm close to you, one state south, please don't hold that against me). It didn't seem like it took very long either for the prices to switch, a few months maybe?
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  17. Member Cornucopia's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CHAOS
    Originally Posted by MOVIEGEEK
    For the topic at hand,I have a dual format writer but all I use now is +R.
    Yep!! i have a dual burner and find myself using + about 100/1, + seems to be getting cheaper at faster speeds, around my area anyways, buy a spindle of 50 dvd-r at 2.4X or dvd+r at 4X, with only 8 cents diff. per disc, i think i'll have to buy the + 4X. funny how around my area - was way cheaper than + just a few months ago ??
    I think the problem you're having with -R is the fact that you got some weird 2.4x discs, when the spec just allows for 1x, 2x and 4x.
    BTW, are you talking same brand/quality level?

    Scott
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  18. Member Faustus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by obeck
    "For years"??? LOL. CD-R is (realistically) only about 5 years old. People have been burning at 5 minutes for about 2 years. Instead of burning 7 CD-R at 5 minutes apiece (35 minutes) you are burning 1 DVD in 15 minutes. You are comparing apples to oranges, both in times to burn and in what can be burned. Burning a DVD in 15 minutes at 4x is so much better than CD-R at 52x in 5 minutes that , well, bragging on CD-R burning speed is absurd.
    I gotta agree here somewhat. I got my first SCSI burner somewhere around late 1995. So for most of the public CD burning can't be older then that. And fast CD burning maybe a few years tops. That aside as someone who burned tons of disc at 1x I think 4x is wicked fast. Personally It took me a few disc to even trust the speed.

    All that aside dual format burners are common making this point less. Also I think I read somewhere the other day that DVD burners would top out at 16x... so why rush it folks?
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  19. Originally Posted by CHAOS
    Originally Posted by MOVIEGEEK
    For the topic at hand,I have a dual format writer but all I use now is +R.
    Yep!! i have a dual burner and find myself using + about 100/1, + seems to be getting cheaper at faster speeds, around my area anyways, buy a spindle of 50 dvd-r at 2.4X or dvd+r at 4X, with only 8 cents diff. per disc, i think i'll have to buy the + 4X. funny how around my area - was way cheaper than + just a few months ago ??

    Currently, Memorex (Ricoh) +R at Amazon in the 25pack regularly goes for $29.99 shipped . Ritek G04 -R at rima goes for $44 shipped. This is cheaper than one can normally get them locally. Both are x4 media. Now, the princo and off brand are cheaper on a regular basis, and there are sales that make some B&M discs cheaper. Buying in larger quantitity is cheaper for both of these. Looking in the media database, the Ricoh +R and the Ritek G04 -R are the highest rated/highest speed/highest compatability for each of the formats. The +R is alternative is cheaper on an ongoing basis than the -R. At local stores, they have achieved true price parity, though at a higher price point than internet purchase.
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  20. Member The village idiot's Avatar
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    Blah

    It's all garbage, my black laser Death Ray writer will smoke them all!
    Hope is the trap the world sets for you every night when you go to sleep and the only reason you have to get up in the morning is the hope that this day, things will get better... But they never do, do they?
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    Samsung plans to release a Blu-Ray burner next year...death to all?

    Any Asian here?...-R is still cheaper in my place...
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  22. Originally Posted by kamuixtv
    Samsung plans to release a Blu-Ray burner next year...death to all?

    Any Asian here?...-R is still cheaper in my place...
    Blu-Rays will be ridiculously priced in the US when they first come out. I read somewhere in the thousands.
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  23. Its just a matter of time before DVD+R becomes the dominant format. Regardless of all the arguments for or against either format its ultimately maket forces that will decide it for everyone including us enthusiasts on this board.

    To an average Joe, + or - belongs in arithmetic and to them its just a DVD burner. That said, any PC vendor will be foolish to ship a DVD-R only drive. Thats leaves the DVD+R or dual format as the only other option. Give it months or maybe year but its just a matter of time

    In any caes, dual format burners are just a transition phase before the +R burner. DVDR market is still young but growing exponentially and it will get simply way too big to be able to sustain both formats. I would not be saying this even a few months ago but all indications so far support what I have said.
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    Originally Posted by sidewinder33625
    Its just a matter of time before DVD+R becomes the dominant format. .
    Oh yeah, absolutely.

    And mustard and mayonnaise will be abolished soon too. Ketchup is the leading product by a mile.
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  25. Who cares... You can find a single format burner for about $100 now and a dual format for about $130. By the time one of the formats becomes extinct, if that'll ever happen, drives will probably be around $50. Just buy a new one.
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    Originally Posted by DeleriumMDK
    Whatever media is on sale is what I burn.
    Wow. That's a powerful statement. I tried that method and ended up with discs that started skipping and freezing after continuous use (GQ's made by "Lead Data"). Never again. Riteks, Fujifilm (the 10 packs from Japan), or Memorex are pretty much all I trust now. I'm actually interested in trying a couple other bulk brands that are about as reliable is Riteks, but that might cost a bit less, so if anyone has any suggestions, I'm open to hear them.
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  27. Oh yeah, absolutely.

    And mustard and mayonnaise will be abolished soon too. Ketchup is the leading product by a mile.
    Did you see the Post about the new Dual layer DVD+R-9.
    http://www.dvdrw.com/press/duallayer.htm

    I think I just heard a large sucking sound coming from the DVD-R/RW camp.

    RG
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  28. Looks like I am not the one looking. I see from PhilipL the -R/RW camp did come up with some panic statement that they had posted on CD-R_info about doing their own Dual layer disk.
    No real details though.
    I suspect that MKM probably worked both sides of the fence. They media guys have the most to gain from this format war continuing anyway.

    RG
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  29. Originally Posted by RAAGAAman
    Did you see the Post about the new Dual layer DVD+R-9.
    http://www.dvdrw.com/press/duallayer.htm

    I think I just heard a large sucking sound coming from the DVD-R/RW camp.

    RG
    That's cool, but it might as well be the DVDxR format since it is obviously incompatible with any existing burners... 8)

    Regards.
    Michael Tam
    w: Morsels of Evidence
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  30. Member
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    Originally Posted by Cornucopia
    Originally Posted by CHAOS
    Originally Posted by MOVIEGEEK
    For the topic at hand,I have a dual format writer but all I use now is +R.
    Yep!! i have a dual burner and find myself using + about 100/1, + seems to be getting cheaper at faster speeds, around my area anyways, buy a spindle of 50 dvd-r at 2.4X or dvd+r at 4X, with only 8 cents diff. per disc, i think i'll have to buy the + 4X. funny how around my area - was way cheaper than + just a few months ago ??
    I think the problem you're having with -R is the fact that you got some weird 2.4x discs, when the spec just allows for 1x, 2x and 4x.
    BTW, are you talking same brand/quality level?

    Scott
    Well actually, i prob. made a boo boo there but i never said anything about having problems with any format ? and yes same quality/brand..... like verbatims, it's actually less than 8 cents each per disc in price diff., the verbatim - worked as well as the verbatim +, but for the little bit in price diff. i may as well get the faster + !!
    I don't mind either format as long as they work
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