ATI Radeon 9600 / ATI all in one 9600 whats the difference?

[jim s]

I’m trying to figure out what video card to get. I want to run Adobe Premiere Pro and Halo PC which needs Directx9. From what I understand the “All in one” captures and the “Radeon” is more for gaming and has dual monitor support? I’m also thinking of about the Nvidia GeForce 5200 or 5600? Anyone has a suggestion and what is the most compatible with Premiere?



Thanks,

Jim



www.wegottafindearth.com

[dun4cheap]

Well I have had the AIW 7500 card, nice card, went to the 9600PRO even nicer card. Now the All In One is just a VIVO video in and video out without the tuner. Capturing ability is about the same as the AIW without the TV tuner. Albeit, my main goal is video editing, so I have come to the conclusion that none of the TV capture cards cut the mustart. I am now in the market for a canopus Analog to DV converter through firewire. This will help ensure the highest possible quality of video and audio possible without frame drops.

So basically here is what I am saying, for gaming I would go with any of the ATI 9600, 9700 or 9800 cards. I would probably stay away from the AIW unless you want the TV functionality. Ultimately I would would just buy a TV card, a nice ATI 9600pro, and make a one time investment on the external canopus advc100. Then you can always upgrade the video card for gaming purposes, the ADVC100 should suffice for years to come. The TV card will probably be the same for a few years.


my 2.5 cents worth, you can keep the change.

Ed


By the way I think from the ATI 7000 and up, they all have duel monitor support. The duel monitor support has worked well for me since the 7000 series. I have a computer solely in my entertainment system with an AIW 9000 no monitor strictly TV out, I use it to play movies from my dvd and hd.

[lordsmurf]

Sorry, but you've got some of that mixed up.

The ATI All In Wonder (AIW) Radeon card use a ATI Theatre chipset for capture, and have s-video, composite, coax and tv tuner functions.

The non-Radeon cards use a different chipset.

The Radeons are excellent cards at MPEG1, MPEG2, and AVI capturing. It is one of the best cards available on the market.

The ATI MMC software doesn't always come setup properly, but sites such as my www.lordsmurf.com have guides on how to quickly set it up for perfect captures.

Most other cards, including the low-end ATI cards, use standard BT8x8 (or other BT) chipsets, which are old and only decent at AVI at most... or the others are DV format, which gives you few options. All of the cards do AVI for editing. Only the ATI and a few other cards do hardware (or hardware-assisted) MPEG encoding.

The AIW cards are both graphics and video all in one card. The 9800 is best with an all-new capture chipset and graphics chip, but the 7000-9700 have nearly the same capture chips, only the graphics are really different.

With proper software and OS supporting it, you can set up dual monitors (given that you have multiple cards in use). I've seen it, just never done it myself.

[dun4cheap]

I think for the most part I said the same thing. But their are some ATI cards currently on the market called All In One, which has VIVO just no TV tuner. I am not sure what capture chip they have but I imaging it is the bt chip, or theater chip. I was just stating I would not buy an AIW card for video editing. Its just not that reliable and dropped frames happen often.

In my experience though the AIW cards have been clocked faster than their typical counterparts.


I also know in example the ATI Rage PRO VIVO had a theater chip in it, and had better capture abilities than the ATI PCI TV Wonder carred. By the way this is the only reference I have made about a non Radeon card.

[lordsmurf]

Sorry if I misread you then.

The Rage 128 PRO cards also have a theatre chipset. The VIVO os just tuner-less cards with the theatre chips.

Non-radeon, non-VIVO, non 128-PRO sets are BT8x8 chips.

Though I still don't see why you'd say the ATI cards are unfit for AVI capturing for video editing. I've never had a problem with it.

[overloaded_ide]

I must strongly agree with lordsmurf, I don't see why you think the ATI is not good!

You mention dropped frames?

I was just stating I would not buy an AIW card for video editing. Its just not that reliable and dropped frames happen often.

Not reliable? Ok first remember you are running MS WINDOWS right? So where do you think any "unreliable" problems come from? Microsoft BOB? ME, 95??
I run 2k pro, and have no problems! However as far as un-reliable goes, I do still need to install the BLASTER updates!
The only system online is running 98se, so I haven't worried over it much yet.

Dropped frames? Get your system up to speed man or stop playing high powered games durring captures!

I can say from first hand experience, NO dropped frames! I do have a decent system though. 1700xp, 60gig boot drive,120gig editing drive, 1 gig ram, blah bla bla.....

But I had no problems before all the upgrades to what I have now!
1700xp, 256 or 512 ram, 1 60gig fat32 drive. Even then I had no dropped frames or sync problems.

As for software, MMC 7.1 was bad but a download from ATI for MMC7.7 fixed the stupid 44,100hz audio problem. Now does 48,000hz like it should have in the first place!

I have 3 other systems, and thinking of buying another card for one of those. I have a 7500 radeon ATI AIW now, but can't find those, so I may have to go newer.

Not every one likes or wants the same things as everyone else, and that's fine. But to say It's not reliable or drops frames is incorrect!
I have heard alot of decent things about using a camcorder to convert analog to DV and send to the pc via firewire too. But it does not work for me! I get video, but not sound! Used type DV type 2 even. 1 time I have sound the rest I do not! I'm not saying it doesn't work or un-reliable, though it is for me, but I know I have a problem somewhere and once I fix that it will work fine! I just have not located my problem yet though.

[dun4cheap]

Well maybe I should rephrase it and be more specific, so I don't step on toes. Fact is their are to many variables that can effect dropped frames, bad quality and so fourth. I love my ATI products, however I have decided I am tiered of all the variable problems, and have decided to purchase a canopus analog to dv converter to ellimnate these problems for my video editing hobbies.

Bottom line is when you run the ATI System check and everything checks out good then it should work, but I have found that this is not the case. Speed?, speed is not an issue, my smallest system range is a Celeron 1.7, all my systems have fast clean installs. Minimum of 512meg ddr and they are all running ATI. I have a n ATI AIW7500, AIW9000, 9600Pro, ATI PCI TV Wonder and I have experienced these problems on all the systems.

My main system has an Intel 875pbz board, 2.66p4/512/533 Duel Channel 1gig mushkin 1 160gig ATA 100 7200 rpm and 1 80gig ATA 100 7200 rpm drives. Yet their is always some sort of loss. Further more signal clarity, lines in the tv signal all contribute towards bad captures.


So I like the cards, but due to the many factors involved to get decent capturing IMHO he may want to consider purchasing a nice gaming card and a canopus ADVC50 or 100, then these factors will pretty much be elliminated the first go around. It all depends on how serious he wants to get with the video editing.

The final note here, when you purchase a capture card with the intention of doing video editing and your system exceeds the requirements by far or by just a little. Then you expect it to work with out problems. Most users are not willing to go through their systems to determine all these miniscal bottleknecks. If your admitting in this forum that you have never seen these problems, then I would have to say your not being completely fourthcoming.

[overloaded_ide]

I had the problems with MMC7.1 non-compliant audio, and the ATI templates for DVD, Just what the heck is .mp2?? Nothing wants to use those files

But for frame droppings, not having problems. ANd I like to capture direct to mep2 most the time. It saves time over encodeing DV and I have been getting good results! Looks same as tape I started with when played back to the TV. I do plan to try other options also though for even better quality, but I am happy with what I have so far. It gets rid of the tapes laying around the house, and all the rewinding! I get most of the regularly used tapes done this way and I will see what else I can learn for even better quality.

I first started doing captures with a Video Spigot card from Creative back in about 96 or so, maybe earlier? Win 3.1
Got the card cheap on a closeout deal, only $300!!
Talk about dropping frames!! But I got it figured out, and stopped dropping then.

I been out of video for a few years and just starting back up. Only reason I stopped was I lost the card when I upgraded to win 98, not supported
So could be my previous experience with captureing in 3.1, 8megs ram, 1 gig drive has helped me more with the modern stuff.
Remember, there was no such thing as DVD back then!! And forget CD burners, like $900 and above for a 1x
Mine was just a fun hobbie, capture edit, and make my own funny stuff.
Betty Boop doing a hoedown to charlie daniels devil went to goergia fiddle solo!! Yee Haaw!

Now that I have a way to save them to disks, CD and DVD I need to get back into making those things again! Before they were on the system and no way to get them off, except tape backups! Didn't even have a tv out card myself. Something I quickly realized AFTER doing my first cartoon!
TV out was far too high or I could not find one, I forget which now.
NO internet then to search for one, and 32bit ISA cards were expensive in those days too.

As for DV itself, I have a problem with that! I have heard alot of good things about using a DV camcorder to convert VHS in to DV out. Acts as an inexpensive TBC?
Well I Tried that. I bought a DV camcorder, Sure I am getting DV onto the computer, but I have no sound most of the time! Rather from DV tape or VHS-DV conversion doesn't matter. I tried many things, and learned the difference in DV type one and two, but still no sound! 1 short test has sound, then none of the rest have sound! Reboot, turn everything off and back on, still no sound! Wait a day, try it one has sound but the rest don't!
Grrrr... Can't figure that one out!
Tmpgenc shows the audio track is present and reconized, no sound after incodeing though. No sound playing back the raw DV.
Capture analog through ATI card and perfect!
Any advice on that??

I am gonna return the camcorder to Wally world!
$500, not reall happy with the camera itself, and defenatly don't want it if I can't figure out how to get DV with sound!! Main reason I bought DV over VHS or VHS-C! I can get those for like $200!
And why do they do something stupid like put in the tape from the bottom on these things?? Lots of fun changing a full tape in the middle of something when mounted on a Tripod! Lose 5 minutes of the action mounting - unmounting to change a danged tape!
I geuss they figure you never need to record any live action lasting more than 1 hr???

[dun4cheap]

Funny, my first capture card on the pc was a Media Vision Studio Pro. Media Vision was the multimedia guys of the time. The Canopus I am refering to is a stand alone device, and it has the ability to lock the Audio to Video to ensure no audio problems. my DV tape is on the side of my DV Camcorder so I can change the tape just like any other 8mm or VHS C. The ATI card are good cards, but I wanted more reliability and the ability to move it to any of my computers without causing unneeded grief.

Although I just had a set back and will have to hold off on the upgrade to the canopus. Instead I just bought the new Cannon Rebel Digital SLR sweet, picked that badboy up with lens and 2 yr warranty and extra battery new from Frys for $850. Well good luck I am off to play..

[overloaded_ide]

What kind of DV camera you got that takes tapes on the sides?
I might want one of those. This little area I live in is very limited to what I can find in person, and sometimes it's hard to find things online when you don't know what your looking for
Everything I saw so far takes tapes in the bottom, of course I readily admitt I haven't send them all either!

I'm gonna do a search for the canopus stuff too, portability might be nice. I just decided I might want to do some work in town, don't want to drag around my main system. Perhaps I could use a canopus for that type work and just cary it around when needed. I am about to buy another ATI card, but the system I would be leaving in town would be seldom used, so that might be a waist whereas an external device I can use both places!