Trimming start and end of AVI file without re-rendering

[pharries]

I have 30 AVI files all about 30 min long. They were captured from DV
I need to trim a few seconds of the start of the file and about 2 mins of the end of each file. Sounds simple enough.
Problem is every tool i have tried wants to rerender the whol 30- mins which is so SLOW! Are there any tools which will trim the start \end of files without rerendering that are affordable?
Thanks

[Gees]

No matter what you use, you will always need to re-render to produce a file without the portions you want. :c*

Maybe that is not what you intended to ask, but with a little more info someone can help.

List what you've used so far, so we don't start throwing stuff at you that you've tried already and don't like.

[Ejoc]

Is the end result a AVI file, or are you going to burn it to VCD/SVCD/CVD/DVD? If you are going to convert it to an MPEG1/2 just use VirtualDub to select what part of the video you want, and then frameserve it to your encoding software. Takes just a couple minutes to get it set up.

[pharries]

Gees
Why would i have to rerender a whole cli[p when Ijust want to remove something from the start and end and not the middle?

I will be converting to MPEG and use the main concept encoder. So it would be ok with me to trim the resultant MPEG file
As for Virtual dub I know that clever people love it but it llways gives me a headache!
I have tried using TPMGenc, Premiere, and one or two cut utilities. (Trial only, did not register and so deleted them).
Thanks

[FOO]

Get aspirin

[SeeingMole]

Well, you can cut the MPEG file with TMPGEnc without re-encoding.

Just go to "File" -> "MPEG Tools..." then go to "Merge & Cut" tab.

I think you should be able to figure out the rest.

[lordsmurf]

You can use VirtualDub and any number of programs to splice the AVI.
Same for MPEG. Womble and TMPGEnc work for MPEG.

Splicing/cutting/joining/merging/trimming does not need a full re-encode.

[Gees]

Gees 
Why would i have to rerender a whole cli[p when Ijust want to remove something from the start and end and not the middle?

What I was saying was you will have to render the portion you are keeping. The original minus what you cut out. That will take as long as it it takes. However long the original video took minus the length of the deleted portion.

Whether you are saving it out to avi again or converting to mpg. It's a whole new video - only shorter.

The way you worded your question made it sound like you thought there was some super-speedy way to save just the part you want - without re-rendering. Impossible.

Maybe you are using the word "rendering" to mean something else?

To my mind - such as it is :c) - "rendering" and "re-encoding" are not the same thing.

[pharries]

Gees
Interesting.
I am starting with a DV capture file
OIt is the sony codec.
My understanding is that it is not possibl to use this codec to write a file to hard disk other than at the time of vcapture and so the file is reencoded using a different codec making the whole thing very slow.
I do not understand what is going on I just hate the delay!
The fastest program to date I have used is
AVI/MPEG/ASF/MV SPLITTER

[Gees]

Whew - I am completed stumped by your whole process :co

Sorry but can you put your sequence of procedures in a little more detail?

Capture at:
Convert to:
Next:

And at what stage are you doing your editing? Where/when are you removing those portions at the start and finish?

I suspect you've got some unnecessary steps in there somewhere.

And what is the name of the program you are using for editing/cutting?

[FulciLives]

I've never worked with the DV format/codec because I don't have a digital camcorder but is it that different from other AVI formats?

For instance you can trim stuff out of HuffyUV captures (AVI format) and PICVideo MJPEG captures (AVI format) without the need to re-encode. I do this with VirtualDub. Just make sure VIDEO and AUDIO are set to DIRECT STREAM COPY then save to a new AVI file. No re-encoding takes place. It's been awhile since I've worked with DivX (AVI) but I'm pretty sure it works the same way as well.

So can you do this with DV or is it different?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Cornucopia]

It's not that different, and most good video editing apps have some type of "smart rendering", where if you're re-saving to the same codec it will only render the frames that have been changed/titled/composited/transitioned, but will just do a binary copy of the other frames. This speeds up export time and maintains high quality.

I know that these apps can do it:

• Premiere
  newest Pinnacle
  newest Ulead
  Vegas
  VirtualDub

Is this not what you're talking about?

Scott

[Gees]

Is this not what you're talking about?

I don't think we're sure at this point! :cD

If you take the original question literally, it seems like pharries is not talking about re-encoding, but having to render any edited video at all.

I'm anxious to hear - when they return - just what they did mean.

I don't think we've even reached the point of program recommendations... yet. :c)

[pharries]

What I want to do is trim these files quickly.
I am interested in the whole discussion outlined above however.
A few points. (my understanding)
1) DV editing is different in that the captured DV may have a different codec to what the editing software uses.
2) Take Premiere. If I import some capturd DV direct from camera, edit it (just delete sections, no transitions) and then try to save to a file it takes hours! To save to tape however takes only as long as the clip does to play! I just do not get this! Similarly a lot of other programs are slow to save DV files and it seems to be codec related.
3) Some people do not have these problemswith slow saving, possibly because they only have the default microsoft codec loaded. Check the forums though and you will find lots of problems with slow saving of DV files with a variety of codecs. Also check out the Adobe forums!
I just dont understand why the whole process has to be so slow!

[Gees]

How slow is it pharries? For one of your 30 minute clips, minus the ~2.5 minutes you've cut, what kind of times are you seeing?

And... what are you attempting to save it to? Avi? With what codec?

[pharries]

Gees with AVI/MPEG/ASF/MV SPLITTER about 30 mins tpo s save it

Currently I capture using Scenalyzer.
I try to edit as little as possible but have Premiere 6.5
Ihave the full edition of The Main Concept Encoder
I also have CCE basic and TPMGenc
thanks

[Gees]

AVI/MPEG/ASF/MV SPLITTER

I've never heard of that.

So you are rendering nearly 1:1 time. I don't see how you can expect better than that.

Have you tried your Premiere? And using identical properties so that nothing is being re-encoded?

[pharries]

Gees
OK
I used AVI codec to identify my files
Example file pre encoding is
File : 5.95 Gb (1.102 Gb), duration 0:28:00, type AVI, 1 audio stream(s), quality 98 %
Video : 1.71 Gb, 8685 Kbps, 29.970 fps, res. 720*480 (4:3), dvsd = Sony Digital Video, Supported
Audio : 307 Mb, 1536 Kbps, 48000 Hz, 2 chan., 0x1 = PCM, Supported


Post encoding file example after using AVI/MPEG/ASF/MV SPLITTER
gives the same results so there is no change in codec

When on the other hand I use Premiere the Sony codec is not one of my choices
I guess it must take my PC 30 mins to read and write a 6.5 GB file!
Still the Premiere thing is interesting no option during setting up of using a Sony codec. I guess I just have not been able to get the Sony coec

My available codecs are listed as follows:-

cdvc;Canopus DV Codec Front-End;1.02.000;Canopus Co., Ltd.;C:\WINDOWS\System32\cdvccodc.dll
cvid;Cinepak® Codec;1.10.0.6;Radius Inc.;C:\WINDOWS\System32\iccvid.dll
dv25;Matrox Codecs;2.5.0.63;Matrox Electronic Systems;C:\WINDOWS\System32\DigiVCap.dll
dv50;Matrox Codecs;2.5.0.63;Matrox Electronic Systems;C:\WINDOWS\System32\DigiVCap.dll
dvsd;Matrox Codecs;2.5.0.63;Matrox Electronic Systems;C:\WINDOWS\System32\DigiVCap.dll
fvfw;FF MPEG4;2.5.0.63;No information available;C:\WINDOWS\System32\ffvfw.dll
hfyu;Huffyuv lossless video codec;2.1.1;Disappearing Inc.;C:\WINDOWS\System32\huffyuv.dll
i420;Microsoft H.263 ICM Driver;4.4.3400;Microsoft Corporation;C:\WINDOWS\System32\msh263.drv
iv31;Intel Indeo R3.1;4.4.3400;No company info;C:\WINDOWS\System32\ir32_32.dll
iv32;Intel Indeo R3.2;4.4.3400;No company info;C:\WINDOWS\System32\ir32_32.dll
iyuv;Intel Indeo(R) Video YUV Codec;5.1.2600.0 (XPClientMicrosoft Corporation;Microsoft Corporation;C:\WINDOWS\System32\iyuv_32.dll
m261;Microsoft H.261 ICM Driver;4.4.3400;Microsoft Corporation;C:\WINDOWS\System32\msh261.drv
m263;Microsoft H.263 ICM Driver;4.4.3400;Microsoft Corporation;C:\WINDOWS\System32\msh263.drv
mjpg;Matrox Codecs;2.5.0.63;Matrox Electronic Systems;C:\WINDOWS\System32\DigiVCap.dll
mmes;Matrox Codecs;2.5.0.63;Matrox Electronic Systems;C:\WINDOWS\System32\DigiVCap.dll
mp42;Microsoft MPEG-4 Video Codec;4.1.00.3917;Microsoft Corporation;C:\WINDOWS\System32\mpg4c32.dll
mpg4;Microsoft MPEG-4 Video Codec;4.1.00.3917;Microsoft Corporation;C:\WINDOWS\System32\mpg4c32.dll
mrle;Microsoft RLE Compressor;5.1.2600.1106 (xpsp1Microsoft Corporation;Microsoft Corporation;C:\WINDOWS\System32\msrle32.dll
msvc;Microsoft Video 1 Compressor;5.1.2600.0 (xpclientMicrosoft Corporation;Microsoft Corporation;C:\WINDOWS\System32\msvidc32.dll
uyvy;Microsoft UYVY Video Decompressor;5.3.0000000.900 builMicrosoft Corporation;Microsoft Corporation;C:\WINDOWS\System32\msyuv.dll
yuy2;Microsoft UYVY Video Decompressor;5.3.0000000.900 builMicrosoft Corporation;Microsoft Corporation;C:\WINDOWS\System32\msyuv.dll
yvu9;Toshiba Video Codec;5.1.2600.0 (XPClientMicrosoft Corporation;Microsoft Corporation;C:\WINDOWS\System32\tsbyuv.dll
yvyu;Microsoft UYVY Video Decompressor;5.3.0000000.900 builMicrosoft Corporation;Microsoft Corporation;C:\WINDOWS\System32\msyuv.dll