Dual Layer DVD+R

[RAAGAAman]

Interesting comment on DVD+R/RW development. Sony has come up with a Dual layer single sided disk. Of course it is experimental but I bet some of these drive MFG will bust their tails trying to make it work.

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/8051

RG

[adam]

Yeah pretty interesting stuff. Like many other people, I have been guilty of saying that this would absolutely never happen. But it seems they have only made the media, and I think its the burner that would really pose the challenge. And like the comment says, it will probably never actually hit the market, still really cool though.

[Thorn]

I've been saying the same thing, for economic reasons more than technical. While this would very expensive even if it did come out, I am glad they're working on it. We may see this get incorporated into the next generation of burning technology (maybe stuff like blu-ray).

[mikepaul]

Sony has developed a dual layer DVD+R blank but it will likely never reach production stage because the drives needed to burn it will be too expensive.

This seems to imply that it's more than just a refocus job to burn the second layer, or else what would be the extra expense?

Maybe two lasers, one with a narrower beam to burn the second layer but in such a way that a standard player can still read it?...

[SaSi]

The first DVD Recorders were too expensive also. And price goes down as production numbers increase. And production numbers increase as technology solves infancy problems and becomes viable.

It will hit the market if it becomes viable soon enough, before another, better and/or cheaper media alternative hits the market.

Taking into account that even DVDR technology by itself is extremely complicated, burning two separate layers isn't all that much more complicated.

With the price of recorders dropping like a rock, manufacturers need to still make money. So, if 8X recorders go at $200 and 4X recorders at <$100, manufacturers don't make money.

A Ferrari is way too expensive compared to a Ford, but both make cars and both make money.

My bet is that we will be seeing DLDVDRs by Spring next year at ridiculus prices. They will become reasonable before the end of the year. Otherwise, how on earth are we going to through away our current DVD recorders?

[tompika]

Then Baldricks gonna have to rewrite the Glossary


DVD-9
DVD-9 is a single sided dual layer DVD which can fit up to 7.95 computer GB which many commercial video DVDs are using today (a DVD-9 is basicly two pressed plastic DVD-5s pressed together, they are not burned). Video DVD supports this format but DVD-R/W and DVD+R/W does not support this format.

[The village idiot]

Why would Sony care about this, if they a backing a blue laser tech of their own? It just doesn't make sense. Why not get the more dense blue tech working and go from there?

[andkiich]

Imagine the possibility if they do get it to work. Blu-Ray AND burnable dual layer discs. You might be able to get a whole season of your favorite show on one or 2 discs, instead of 4 - 7.

[KDH]

Interesting to see Sony have done this with a DVD+R
There are those that suggest that Sony continue to hover on the fence before coming down on the side of one format.
One week they launch Cammcorders using miniDVD-R, the next we hear about dual DVD+R.
Their CE DVDrecorders still don't write to DVD+R.

Sony it seems have a vested interest in keeping the format war going perhaps?They can justify higher prices with their policy of selling dual format machines in the CE market

The original link
http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/8051

shows that DVD+RW/R may well become the dominant format in 2004 according to the Taiwanese drive manufacturers(certainly on the PC side)


KDH

[lordsmurf]

I was watching a 1950s episode of "I've Got A Secret" the other night. On it was the inventor of the jet pack. Yes, this was real. It's a backpack that uses some sort of rocket-fuel mix to propel a human. Just like the Jetsons. It showed a newsreel of the test flights and the pilot was on the show too.

I just wanted to point out that cool experiments often never make it into the mass production phase.

Normally because it's just not feasible. Dual-layer DVD burnable discs are probably iffy at best. It'd be cool, and I'd jump in line to buy one too. But I'm not gonna hold my breath.

[RabidDog]

Jet pack refer to Bond Film Scottish bond Jet pack worked on moon and on earth unfortunately only allows for 3 to 4 mins of flight max. DVD blu-ray ?? no way HS-dsl and VOD, future of Tv AND DVD

[Jukka]

Wouldn't this be similar in principle to the FMD (Flourescent Mulilayer Disk) - claimed to hold 120Gb per disc (or near that number) on (something like) 8 layers. Can't understand why the hell it never got off the ground, or maybe its because some people in the industry didn't want it to happen.

[adam]

Wouldn't this be similar in principle to the FMD (Flourescent Mulilayer Disk) - claimed to hold 120Gb per disc (or near that number) on (something like) 8 layers. Can't understand why the hell it never got off the ground, or maybe its because some people in the industry didn't want it to happen.

They went bankrupt. They started development way before there was a market for it and they just couldn't keep up enough financial backing. I thought it was only two layers max, but yes it was around 120 gigs or so per side or something ridiculous like that.

[thxkid]

yeah it was sony that came up with the 1.3 gig CD-R's also, where is it now? Nice Pipe dream, if you make the media how do you know its gonna work without the burner to try it on, I mean if Sony has the dual layer DVD+R media where is the burner they tried it out on? If its actually a real working Dual layer DVD+R.

[garryheather]

It's not just the burner that will cost - there is a little thing called Bit Management that I've mentioned here before.

Some of us have enough trouble making compliant discs as it is, but when you start throwing two layers into the mix, it's going to be fun all round.

The software required to make compliant discs is going to be a problem for the home user. For example, the second layer has to have less data on it than the first according to the DVD Video specification, and Bit Management is still an expensive business.

[mrdish2000]

The DVD+RW Alliance is setting an aggressive feature and performance roadmap, and the dual-layer DVD+R format book is expected to be ready within this year. Recorders for both the PC and consumer electronics markets are expected to become available during the course of 2004.

http://www.dvdrw.com/press/duallayer.htm

[Taxidermista]

From Philips:
'...Dual-layer DVD+R discs have been manufactured, showing good recording performance...'

[rishid]

Repost... my bad

[vandakeg]

I don't know about you guys.. but this is getting me soo excited! I'm probably just setting myself up for a let down, but it's good to dream!

[spiderman2k1]

Dual layer DVD burner will hit market. It's will not be cheep but give it time it will come down in price and be as cheep as DVD black and DVD burner are now

[tgferg67]

I can't even imagine the potential problems with media quality. They can't even get single layer media quality under control.

[vandakeg]

I remember when I paid $700 for my first CD Burner. It only burnt at 2x, and couldn't re-write..... but it was worth every penny b/c I had a burner 3 years before anyone new they existed!

[gf]

Pionneer to proceed with dual layer recording
Friday, 3 October 2003

Pioneer Corporation has proceeded to the development of dual layer recording on DVD-R discs.
The first measurements on the two layer DVD-R discs showed that the jitter for the fisrt layer is 9.34%, the reflectivity 17.3%, while the same measurements for the second layer were 8.08% and 19.5%, respectively. Playback compatibility with the current DVD players is expected to be high.

Although the limited information about the technology background, dual layer DVD recording is definitely a major step beyond and expected to boost the sales of DVD writers.

[The village idiot]

I wonder if you could use this same technique to make a 3 layer disk? Looks like there is a small amount of roon just below the label. At least if the drawing is to scale.

[Faustus]

I wonder if you could use this same technique to make a 3 layer disk?

Are you mad? That disc would surely destroy the world!

On a serious note personally my true love goes to whichever format/brand gets a good Dual layer burner out first. At least once I find out how compatible is is. Long as its not HP I mean...

[thayne]

I was watching a 1950s episode of "I've Got A Secret" the other night. On it was the inventor of the jet pack. Yes, this was real. It's a backpack that uses some sort of rocket-fuel mix to propel a human. Just like the Jetsons. It showed a newsreel of the test flights and the pilot was on the show too.

I just wanted to point out that cool experiments often never make it into the mass production phase.

Normally because it's just not feasible. Dual-layer DVD burnable discs are probably iffy at best. It'd be cool, and I'd jump in line to buy one too. But I'm not gonna hold my breath.

There is a big difference between burning 2 layer DVD's and strapping a rocket powered jet pack on your back and blasting off into the air!

[NightWing]

Going to be intersting next year. Hum. So one disk would be equal to about 14 CD. Cool!

PS: The Rocket pack orginaly would fly for around 28 seconds. { Seen in movies, tv since the 50's } The time limit was due to how much Peroxied fuel could be carried. It made thrust by hitting a copper mesh. Thats why the steam looking fron the nozels. Layer they extended it to 32 seconds.

Orginator was developed by Bell copters. And later taken over by one of the engeering. There were some "Jet" based units that could fly for about 30 minutes in the late 60's and early 70. Look like a bigger barelle on a frame. Also a "walk" in unit was developed due to the shear weight of the unit. Kind of like Dick Tracy AG stuff after they went to the moon. But thats another story...

[tompika]

I wonder if you could use this same technique to make a 3 layer disk? Looks like there is a small amount of roon just below the label. At least if the drawing is to scale.

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.asp?RelatedID=3129

[john1290]

Pionneer to proceed with dual layer recording
Friday, 3 October 2003

Pioneer Corporation has proceeded to the development of dual layer recording on DVD-R discs.
The first measurements on the two layer DVD-R discs showed that the jitter for the fisrt layer is 9.34%, the reflectivity 17.3%, while the same measurements for the second layer were 8.08% and 19.5%, respectively. Playback compatibility with the current DVD players is expected to be high.

Although the limited information about the technology background, dual layer DVD recording is definitely a major step beyond and expected to boost the sales of DVD writers.

No, no....sorry to burst YOUR bubble. My god man, do you think you're the only person who reads doom9.org? >PHILIPS< announced that THEY are going forward with dual layer DVD+ technology on October 3, 2003. I have yet to see a press release (other than the lame blurb on cdrinfo/cdfreaks) that pioneer is doing anything with dual layer media/drives. If they are, why now all of a sudden? Feeling the heat from the plus camp? Could somebody please post a link confirming that pioneer is heading towards the dual layer world? And no, lame speculation on cdrinfo/cdfreaks does NOT!!! count. I want to see a link on pioneers page like the one Philips has.

[Faustus]

john1290

I made the same mistake also. I didn't realize that 2 +RW companies announced it and that Phillips said they are going to pursue it. When I saw the phillips release I assumed it was more of the same.

So yes both formats are working on dual layer burning. We are all winners here if thats true.