The RIAA Chronicles...Continued

[vitualis]

Thats not exactly true. There is a body of evidence that supports the idea that you can copy pretty much anything you can physically get your hands on for your own personal use. Further, the RIAA claims that even ripping to your local hard drive is illegal. Further still, the RIAA is only prosecuting people who make songs available on the internet. It is not at all clear that downloading is illegal. My point was that there is a vast amount a grey area that the RIAA wont even touch because a ruling against them would be costly. If you stay in that grey area... instead of making your whole library of songs available on the internet, then you beat the RIAA.

That is not quite correct from a number of points.

"Copy pretty much anything you can physically get your hands on for your own personal use"... what about outright theft? If I go to a shop and STEAL a CD does copying that for personal use make it okay?

Copying something that you don't have "copyright" to (i.e., something you created yourself) is a breach in copyright unless you have a license to do so. There are some cases when a breach in copyright is not considered illegal (i.e., the "fair use" provisions -- e.g., for educational use). Exactly how far fair uses extends over digital audio/video content is somewhat untested but I believe that personal backup falls under its provisions (e.g., same as for software). The "spirit" of this law is as you have purchased a license to access that particular digital content, which shouldn't be arbitrarily lost if there is failure of the medium.

As to recording off the radio, this is "okay" insofar to the concept of "timeshifting". Furthermore, you have a "right" to access the radio broadcast. Though this is "free" (as in costless) to you, it is not in the public domain. The radio broadcaster has to pay for a license to broadcast music.

This is a completely different scenario to downloading copyrighted music or copying a friend's CD. In neither case do you have a "right" to access that content and so "fair use" provisions can never apply.

As to why the RIAA is only persuing distribution, I would think this is a simple case in terms of the burden of evidence. It is much easier to prove someone is distributing music illegally than it is to prove that they have downloaded content illegally.

Lets say I download a song. And I tape one off the radio and compress it. And they sound *exactly* the same to me, and the right judge or jury. How can the RIAA claim harm? To a great extent, if it is legal to digitize it from the radio and compress it, it is going to be very difficult for the RIAA to claim harm for any other method which produces a comparable recording... as long as i dont give out my recording to the world at large (the radio station paid a royalty to give it to me). You see how sticky things get?

That is beside the point. The simple fact is that one is illegal and one is not. If I go to a shop a STEAL an audio CD and replace it with a replica that I made myself, that in every discernable way looks and sounds like the original, is it illegal? After all, there is no "harm"...

Furthermore, it should be noted that the copying/timeshifting/format shifting of broadcast material is limited only to personal use. This does not include the right to distribution.

Regards.

[smearbrick1]

First of all I have a correction for the guy who quoted the song "Get Over It". The song was not perform only by Don Henley, it was the Eagles... also the quote wasn't "..Kill all the lawyers,kill them today.." It was: "Let's Kill all the lawyers, kill them tonight". Also, this was originally written by Shakespeare. Just had to get that out there. Now my point:

How does the RIAA know the difference between an encoded from CD source MP3/WMA file and a encoded from an FM broadcast, recorded onto cassette, then encoded to MP3/WMA? I guess this isn't the issue though, it's sharing of the music. What's the difference if I were to copy this same song from FM to cassette and give it to friend? The delivery is different but the concept remains. You don't see them prosecuting anyone for trading cassettes...

By the way, all of this is hypothetical, I don't actually use cassettes anymore.

[Sailn]

/start rant

To the people who commented on FM recordings, if your mp3's sound like FM they are pretty poor encodings. FM bandwidth is significantly less than the 20-20k which average people may well hear, furthermore the rock stations have this nasty tendency to futz the begezus out of the signal so that it will sound good on a modest radio.

Anyway, as I understand it, if I tape off the radio it is similar to recording a TV show to my VCR. The US Supreme court has ruled that private recording of a TV show for time shifting purposes is "fair use". Trading these tapes is most likely not, as would be file sharing them over the internet.

The real problem is that when you buy a CD you don't really own the music on the CD. You own license for private use. In fact stores over a certain size ( I forget what that is right now) should pay royalities for the music they play in the store.

Anyway, I haven't bought a CD in years, with the notible exception of the a Johnny Cash cd (Solitary Man - has a really good Nick Cave cover on it). All the music I listen to is in the public domain or streamed/radio (in which case I am sure someone is paying royalities, but it isn't me directly).

/end rant

[vitualis]

What's the difference if I were to copy this same song from FM to cassette and give it to friend? The delivery is different but the concept remains. You don't see them prosecuting anyone for trading cassettes...

You're right, there is no difference. Trading via cassettes is illegal too.

As for prosecuting, again, read my above post. The issue is the burden of evidence. It is very difficult for the RIAA to be able to prove that you've traded music recorded on tape from the radio. No only do they have to show that you recorded the music, but they also have to prove you've given it to someone else. Ultimately, they don't know the contents of the cassette without physically having it in their possession - which in most Westernised countries will require a warrant.

It is probably not worth their while to chase anyone who does this but that doesn't make it "legal".

On the other hand, distributing MP3s via Kazaa or some other filesharing info is easy to catch. The MP3s are there for all to see.

Regards.

[hothandiman]

The RIAA should just go shit in a hat.

[mysticgohan17]

closely related story...
MPAA Kills Academy Award Video Screeners

[jolo]

Just one little thing about the RIAA.
The RIAA are the priates and convicted are a convicted criminal element
I never understand when it was brought up about these crooks who were convicted, but settled, when they were proven price fixers. I believe all of us had to May 1 of 2003 to submit their bid the get paid back $5.00 per CD or record by the RIAA for artificially riasing the prices and not letting stores sell lower than a certain amount.

The RIAA as far as I am concerned is an illegal monopoly, companies are supposed to compete against each other in the open marketplace, not form Unions to squash competation so they can screw artists and customers.

When I think of all of the billions of revenue that they picked artists pockets for the pay all of the legal and lobbying fees for this fiasco, it really pisses me off.

Boycott RIAA !!

[BJ_M]

closely related story...
MPAA Kills Academy Award Video Screeners

yes -- all that does is make it so that we will have to watch these in a controlled theater ... which is a bear , because of location and scheduling .. Many films will not get previewed now ..

A lot of people are upset about this ....

[energy80s]

Unless you're the government. They collect tax on a car every time it's sold until it lands in the junkyard. Then they collect tax on the parts when parting it out...and then it gets melted into a new car and the process starts all over again.

Not in the UK. Unless you are a business registered for VAT, the government don't get anything out of a sale between private individuals.

[Roundabout]

Not in the UK. Unless you are a business registered for VAT, the government don't get anything out of a sale between private individuals.

Sorry, this is getting OT, but...
Well, then you're lucky to be living in the "low-tax" UK :P
Here in California, they tax everything they can find. They even tax the tax on gasoline! We pay 18c a gallon in state tax, then 18.4c in federal tax, and then after adding that on to the price of a gallon of gas, they tax the full amount including the state and federal taxes with a sales tax of 8.25%. And don't even get me started on the bottle/can recycling scheme and it's attendant taxes...

[Duchess]

Here in California, they tax everything they can find. They even tax the tax on gasoline! We pay 18c a gallon in state tax, then 18.4c in federal tax, and then after adding that on to the price of a gallon of gas, they tax the full amount including the state and federal taxes with a sales tax of 8.25%.

Then you're lucky, in the UK petrol costs $1.20 a litre so filling up a car costs around $60 a time. Hon' be grateful that your taxes are so low!

[BobK]

> in the UK petrol costs $1.20 a litre

For those who don't like math-that's over $4.50 per gallon.

[obeck]

It is probably not worth their while to chase anyone who does this but that doesn't make it "legal".

On the other hand, distributing MP3s via Kazaa or some other filesharing info is easy to catch. The MP3s are there for all to see.

Regards.

On that, at least , we can agree. It is illegal to make copyrighted music on the internet, and it is illegal to make copies of copyrighted music and give them to your friends. As for the rest, (you and) the RIAA can claim it is illegal but they can't be sure that they would win in court. If they lost, they perceive it to be a devastating blow to the industry (much like VHS recording was a devastating blow to the movie industry). Since they cant be sure they would win, they choose not to prosecute unless there is clear evidence that people are distributing. For me, thats a reasonable compromise. Its even more reasonable when you consider the collusion and price fixing that has gone on in the industry for years.

[RabidDog]

Good God Man... Gasolean in US $2.00 a gal here in Uk £4.50 per gallon diff about 300%! low DIRECT tax maybe!

Actually you can put your own copyrighted music on kazaa, as long as you agree for it to be distributed in this way, eg no-cost.

[Roundabout]

Well, I guess this is completly off topic now.
Petrol may be the equivalent of $4.50 a gallon in the UK, but there's a difference. You guys have great mass transit, and we have, basically, none. We have to drive everywhere, especially here in California, because there is no "tube" to take us everywhere. I'd rather pay $4.50 a gallon and not have to drive the car much, and be able to just jump on the tube and get wherever I want to go without fighting traffic and insane drivers. You can relax and read the paper. So you might take the car out on the weekend into the country, but that's not something you have to do. Here, a car is a necessity, not a luxury.
They just tripled the car tax yesterday, and there's a lot of angry people - fueling the recall campaign on the governor (Gray Davis). Some people are having to pay over $1000.00 a year just to register their vehicle! I remember back in Florida we only paid about $20 -30 a year. This state is just out of control. Looks like Arnold is gonna be running things soon.

[Gazorgan]

Don't confuse the Britt!

Ther are 2 Californias. Just like Ireland. There's Northern California where they do agriculture and wine. It's Mountainous and it rains a lot.

Then there is The Peoples Republic of Southern California. It's a Desert (they import water from states away, like getting all your water from France, and not the bottled kind). It's also the 5th largest economy in the world. The ultimate goal is to raise taxes to 100%, then the government can give you everything you need to survive.

If you think $1000/year to license your vehicle is a joke, it's not. The other 49 states charge between $19 and $80 (depends on whether you live in the country or city). And Yes, taxing taxes is a way of life in California. It does explain the MPAA though.....

The state I live in is getting almost as bad. When the budget is out of balance the first thing to get cut is schools. It's a political move, but the current govener isn't going to get re-elected.

[BJ_M]

"Peoples Republic of Southern California" hahahahaha

they want canada's water also ....

but aren't they going to fall into the ocean sometime soon anyway ?

or with global warming -- just disapear ...

oceans only have to rise 2-3 " and much of USA coasts (and elsewhere) disapears (including NY city i heard) .. for oceans to rise 2" requires only 3 degrees warmer ... much of the polar icecaps are melting now -- some have melted now that havnt melted in over 10,000 years ... huge area of antartica have drifted/broken off ..

be kinda of intersting .... except for people having to move be a bear ..

[Roundabout]

Don't confuse the Brit!

Ther are 2 Californias. Just like Ireland. There's Northern California where they do agriculture and wine. It's Mountainous and it rains a lot.

There was serious talk at one time of splitting this state in two, like North and South Carolina. That would have been interesting. I haven't heard any more about it for a while.

Then there is The Peoples Republic of Southern California. It's a Desert (they import water from states away, like getting all your water from France, and not the bottled kind).

Yeah, the crappy kind - full of minerals and horrible tasting

It's also the 5th largest economy in the world. The ultimate goal is to raise taxes to 100%.

I think it's almost there already... by the time you figure payroll taxes, medicare taxes, state taxes, sales taxes, property taxes and a hundred others, our tax rate is probably higher than most of Europe, but they have "free" medical care and a lot of other services that we only give to illegals for free. If you're out of work and an American citizen, you're out of luck if you get sick.

[rkr1958]

much of the polar icecaps are melting now -- some have melted now that havnt melted in over 10,000 years ... huge area of antartica have drifted/broken off ..

be kinda of intersting .... except for people having to move be a bear ..

I saw a documentary on the Travel, History, Nova or some type channel like this on this subject. The interesting thing I took away for it was that all the ocean currents eventually circulate around Antarctica. These currents cause the warm waters (such as the gulf stream) to circulate and warm the lands in the northern latitudes (e.g., England, Upper US East Coast). Anyway, melting of the Southern Polar Ice Caps would change the salinity (i.e., salt content) of the water by adding more fresh water to the mix thereby slowing, or even shutting, down the warmer ocean currents causing the onset of an Ice Age. If true, it seems that the Earth has a correction mechanism for Global Warming. Once things are cooled off then the currents pick back up warming the Earth again. Of course, all of this would probably happen over 100's or even 1000's of year.

[Duchess]

Petrol may be the equivalent of $4.50 a gallon in the UK, but there's a difference. You guys have great mass transit, and we have, basically, none.

That's a bit of a joke, the public transport in the UK has been declining steadily over the last couple of decades. It's still fine in the inner cities which have a rail system but move out from there and it gets pretty bad. I drive to work, about 20 miles and it takes about an hour to get there (and it's not in any city) as a result of bad congestion. If I took public transport that journey would involve 3 buses and more than 2 hours of travel time, and to add insult to injury the buses just aren't reliable.

At least our car tax isn't anything like $1000 per year but it is higher than most of the US states in that it is about $200 per annum. Also bear in mind that our population density is one of the highest in the world, we have a fiftieth of the population that the USA has but situated on a land mass that is one 250th that of the USA. In other words our population density is five times that of the USA.

[energy80s]

You want to "border hop" when filling up! To get my diesel, I cross the border into the Irish Republic and fill up for 57.4p a litre rather than pay Gordon Brown 79.9p. Oh and apparently a British gallon is bigger than an Amrican gallon.

[andydd]

HHmm..Petrol (or gas) is a hell of a lot cheaper in the US than in the UK i can tell ya..about 80-90 % of the cost of petrol here is just taxes.

[BJ_M]

i guess global warming and the price of gas are a moot point when , according to latest studies, we are all running out of oil by 2010 or at least 2050 at the latest ..


so why does everyone drive around in big old SUV's that GET 10MILES TO THE GALLON ?

[crazeplaya]

Has anyone noticed that kazaa has started to become flooded with 1000s of fake mp3s. I think it could be the RIAA that are doing this to make downloaders get frustrated with downloading songs that don't work and give up and just go and buy the CD instead

[gmatov]

Duchess,

I think you have more like a "fifth" of our population, more like 50 million than 5.

That would make you have to be even closer friends to co-exist

True on the gasoline prices, but I think you pay many more taxes in your gas prices than we do.

Basically, our gas tax is for road building and maintenance only.

[Roundabout]

so why does everyone drive around in big old SUV's that GET 10MILES TO THE GALLON ?

I don't. I drive a Honda Civic (30 MPG) and feel dwarfed by the SUV's all around. That is part of the reason gas is so expensive. The SUV's hog up all the surplus gas (which is very little) thereby driving up the price due to increased demand. If everyone drove smaller cars, the demand would be reduced and the price would drop. Maybe not by half, but it would drop. Right now, it's $1.64/gal. for the absolute cheapest gas here (which is at Costco), and that's after the drop off of demand after labor day. According to MSN, gas in Georgia is $1.13/gal. - we're paying .50/gal. more for some reason. In the past, there was never that much discrepancy in prices from the east coast and the west. I don't know what's going on now, except greed.
I'm one Californian that would welcome mass transit. They (media) keep claiming that we don't want mass transit, that no one will use it. I don't believe it, that people would rather sit for hours on the 91 freeway trying to get into Orange Co. everyday, than being able to hop on a light rail system and get to their jobs. I just don't think that's credible.
I'm not an environmentalist, I just think we're wasting our lives away sitting in traffic, when we could be home with our families instead of sitting on some damn freeway listening to the radio. The traffic and congestion gets worse every year - and it's like the weather - everyone talks about it, but no one does anything about it.

[AndThenSome]

Not necessarily Gmatov. I have been participating in my own RIAA boycott. You dont need to deny yourself music...just start heading to the "used CD bin". There are also a few online retailers specializing in used CD sales.

I live near a college town where we have three used CD stores who have a large selection and fast moving inventory. New releases make their way to the bin within a short amount of time since most new music stinks!

Buying used Cds takes the buck out of the RIAAs pocket and will get our message across without denying ourselves music. Do it now!

Overload,

All talk. No one will boycott. Just gotta have the ONE new tune on that GREAT new CD.
As long as everybody else won't buy, what's it hurt if I buy MY copy..

As all my music is Classic Country, easier to get at flea markets, and classical, and I have all I need of that, I don't buy 'em anyway.

The rest will buy as many disks as they ever did.

They got us by the short hairs.

George

[Roundabout]

And something a little more on-topic from today; at least someone is trying to do something about the out-of-control RIAA:

U.S. SENATE: Coleman seeks lower file-sharing penalties
from Associated Press

Sen. Norm Coleman, two days after holding a high-profile hearing on the recording industry's anti-piracy campaign, said Thursday he will push legislation this year to reduce legal penalties for people who download copyrighted music off the Internet.

Coleman, R-Minn., said current penalties, $750 to $150,000 per song downloaded, are excessive and enough to scare innocent people into settling lawsuits filed by the recording industry.

"The range of penalties was put in when downloading wasn't even thought of," Coleman said, referring to the 1998 Digital Millennium Copyright Act, or DCMA. He didn't immediately suggest a new range.

"I can tell you that $150,000 per song is not reasonable, and that's technically what you can put in front of somebody," Coleman said in a conference call with reporters. "That forces people to settle when they may want to fight, but they're thinking, 'Goodness, gracious, what am I going to face?' "

Coleman said he will also press for changes in federal law to curb the recording industry's subpoena power.

The DCMA allows the industry to obtain subpoenas, without a judge's signature, to track and sue people who download songs. Coleman said he would like to see the law changed so that there is some judicial review.

On Tuesday, Coleman held a hearing that featured the recording industry, the file-sharing industry and rappers LL Cool J and Chuck D.

The Washington-based Recording Industry Association of America, which represents the major record labels, has filed civil lawsuits against 261 people it accuses of illegally distributing music online, and promises thousands more suits.

The RIAA, which blames piracy for flagging music sales, opposes changing the law.

The file-sharing industry welcomed Coleman's comments.

"Senator Coleman's willingness to act quickly to protect the public in these two critical areas is commendable," said Adam Eisgrau, executive director of P2P United, a trade group that represents the file-sharing industry.

[BJ_M]

" LL Cool J and Chuck D" <---- now there must be the voice of reason ...

i wonder if they went for the GLOCK method of p2p enforcement , or just send someone around from murder inc. to rough you up a little ..

[gmatov]

BJ,

The Glock is a firearm and you, as a Canadian, are not allowed to mention them.

I hear the vast majority of your "Natives", as well as a lot of the European descent Canadians refuse to abide by the latest "They're bad, and we want you to register them in our super efficient 20 million, cost overrun 1 billion, and counting, registry system.

It seems funny that 1 senator wants to curb the "pirates" unnatural enemy,the RIAA, and another, Orrin Hatch, I am almost positive, said the recording industry should be permitted to send malicious code to "destroy" (His words) your computer.

You think a few bucks might have found their way to his war chest?

BTW, I have mentioned before that the recording giants will jut buy each other out. It was in today's paper that buyouts were in the offing. If you can't make a profit selling your product,buy your competition and get rid of the redundant people, profits will skyrocket, you will get your multi-million bonuses, and, hey, who cares about next quarter, I got mine.

Cheers,

George