Who Is The Best James Bond?

Timothy Dalton, definitely !!

Brosnan is also OK, Connery and Moore sucks !

[ember]

Hey tgpo, with a new series of Doctor Who being made next year why not have a "Who was the best Doctor?" poll?

[energy80s]

George was not the best actor in the world (at the OHMSS premiere Harry Brocolli is quoted as saying "I should have killed him and kept the girl.") but OHMSS did well financially, which begs the question: Why did they fire Lazenby?

Wasn't George Lazenby a model? I don't think he had much acting experience and wasn't really given any on set.

[mkelley]

Exactly right -- George was a model and pretty much looked it in the films (that is, he looked terrific standing still).

It certainly wasn't his fault he wasn't the best actor in the world, but H.B. and others obviously felt they didn't need an actor in the part.

And, yes, George went on to do a lot of awful films -- he also was in at least one pretty terrific film, Saint Jack (starring Ben Gazzara), playing a crooked American Senator (I know -- are they any other kinds?) His role didn't require much acting (if I remember right he either didn't have any lines or his lines were observed from a long ways away) and came off rather well.

I have a lot of mixed feelings about OHMSS -- as I've said before, my favorite Bond film (truly great Blofeld, wonderful action scenes, very true to the book in terms of plot and action: not since Thunderball has there been a Bond film that bore any resemblance at all to the book the title came from, and the best Bond Girl of all) but no doubt the worse Bond this side of Casino Royale. Some wise wags have observed, though, that Lazenby's vulnerability really works in the film; that if Sean had been there it would have been difficult in the scene at the skating rink to really believe he was so down on his luck and miserable that he needed Tracy's presence to save him.

Sean's a great actor (as he certainly proved in the years that followed) but there may be a lot of truth there: he never, as Bond, seemed to be in too deep, at the point of desperation, that the mere presence of a girl would help him (even when strapped to a table with a cutting laser between his legs :>). So perhaps things worked out for the best, we got a great movie, Sean got a temporary rest, and the film series went on.

(And I'd vote for Dr. Who -- for us Americans Tom Baker IS the Doctor, no ifs ands or buts, exactly the same way Sean is James Bond).

[energy80s]

(And I'd vote for Dr. Who -- for us Americans Tom Baker IS the Doctor, no ifs ands or buts, exactly the same way Sean is James Bond).

I agree that Tom Baker IS the doctor. Tom is totally barking mad. No matter what he does these days, you still expect to see the daleks coming after him! Apparently he said that Eddie Izzard is to be the next doctor, and everybody believed him - it was all over the papers on Thursday - even though no-one has been officially approached yet!!

[Will Hay]

I was under the impression it was Richard E. Grant, no?
I can't stand the Dr Who thing I'm afraid, but I love R.E.G.

Back to topic, anyone else think that last Bond movie was the worst ever?
Man, I was sooooo disapointed
Will

[mkelley]

Back to topic, anyone else think that last Bond movie was the worst ever?
Man, I was sooooo disapointed
Will

You always have to quality criticism. What exactly about it disappointed you so much?

I thought the last Bond film was the best of the modern era Bond films. In many ways it harkened back to the old films and rather than just "copy" them paid obvious tribute to them.

It wasn't just in the most easy to spot sequences (like Ms. Barrie's bikini rise out of the ocean, Cleese's near echo of the Goldfinger sequence with "Q") but in nearly every plot point and twist there were homages to Dr. No, Goldfinger, Thunderball, Diamonds are Forever, License to Kill and OHMSS. There was even a ridiculous stunt thrown in (the surf boarding) as a nod of the head to the Roger Moore days. It was calculated and very effective to show the producers and writers not only knew the roots very well, but could do them even better.

A good example is the "car fight" on the ice -- here the producers said "Yep, Bond has a car with all the gadgets.. and he meets someone with a car that ALSO has gadgets." Bond takes it in stride, like it's every day that you meet another spy villian and he will have rockets in his car as well. "Oh, yes, of course that happens. Well, I'm here on my back and of course I just use my ejection roof to turn over, that's pretty obvious, isn't it?" What a wonderful sequence, funny and exciting and showing how you can mock what is your core concepts and still not have them fall apart.

For those of us who are fanatics (as opposed to fans) this made this movie all the more special. Each time I watch it I see some small bit or takeoff on another film -- and rather than the spoofiness of the Moore Bonds these riffs are handled fondly. Pierce now seems truly comfortable in his role, and the supporting cast was superb.

No, I would say Die Another Day is up there with the greatest Bond films of all time.

[Will Hay]

Back to topic, anyone else think that last Bond movie was the worst ever?
Man, I was sooooo disapointed
Will

You always have to quality criticism.

I have no idea what you mean by this.
Do you mean quantify?
If so, no, I don't.
Pretty much like I don't have to explain praise I don't have to detail every reason why I didn't like it.
Sometimes, they're just disapointing.
Please, don't take it as a slur, it isn't

What exactly about it disappointed you so much?

Well, seeing as though you ask
I found the story completely weak, and far too far fetched when compared to other Bond films.
The main villian just wasn't believeable and the supporting (bad) actress?
Horrendous performance, truly the worst 'female baddy' I have ever seen.
A shame really, as the first half an hour was really promising.

I thought the last Bond film was the best of the modern era Bond films. In many ways it harkened back to the old films and rather than just "copy" them paid obvious tribute to them.

I fail to see how this could be such the plus you make it out to be, unless of course you enjoy being so analytical in your movie going experience.
I consider myself a fan of James Bond, simply because it's something I grew up with and in calling myself a fan I do so only because I try see every one.
Nothing more, nothing less.
And the references to old movies to which you refer?
Far too much, we almost gorged on the 'flashbacks' and poor old Pierce must have wondered when you would be allowed to make the part his own.
There is a limit to this gushing sentamentality and for me, it was too much.

No, I would say Die Another Day is up there with the greatest Bond films of all time.

I'm glad you took more from it than me
Will

[mkelley]

Will,

"Qualifying" criticism is just that -- attributing qualities to it. Simply saying something is "good" or "bad" isn't a valid remark unless you can back it up with particulars... which you have now done. To put it another way, if someone asked you why you liked the Pioneer DVD burner and you said it was because it was "good" it really wouldn't mean anything. Dialog cannot procede without specifics.

Oh, and you do have to explain praise -- praise without specifics is empty and worthless. It's easy and facile to tell someone you love them, but if they ask you why and you can't say then you don't really love them at all.

But I'm glad you qualified your dissatisfaction, and while I don't agree with it at least I understand where you are coming from. Hopefully the next film will have more of what you are looking for.

[Will Hay]

Will,

"Qualifying" criticism is just that -- attributing qualities to it.

I've never heard the phrase 'you always have to quality criticism'.
I know what to qualify means thanks, but that's not what you said.
Like I say, I've never heard the phrase 'you always have to quality criticism', I stand corrected

But I'm glad you qualified your dissatisfaction, and while I don't agree with it at least I understand where you are coming from. Hopefully the next film will have more of what you are looking for.

Coming from Bond fanatic I think I'll watch it again this week.
It's not uncommon for me to enjoy a movie the second time around, although it's very rare.
If you're interested I'll report back and see if my opinion changed.
I didn't want to dislike it, you know!

Will

[mkelley]

You're right, Will -- I typed that first remark ("Quality") first thing in my morning here (5:30am or so). I guess my eyes weren't open yet <g>.

Yes, I meant "qualify" -- my"f" got "t'ed", so to speak.

And by all means let us know what you think of it again. I've seen it four or five times now, and I like it better each time (I've actually seen just about every Bond film multiple times: some, like OHMSS I've seen so many times I've lost count. Most improve on repeated viewings, although the Moore Bonds don't hold up at all IMHO, as their campiness was a definite child of the times).

[Will Hay]

It's easy and facile to tell someone you love them, but if they ask you why and you can't say then you don't really love them at all.

Sorry, but....
.....rubbish.
I can't tell you why I have this immense love for my 18 month old son, he's no different in appearence to any other of the millions of children around the globe nor do I imagine he's much different as far as his personality, but what I have for him is inherent, it's not a condition I can describe.
I can tell me wife what attracted me to her twelve years ago, but to suggest there's a defining reason why I love her as much as I do is silly.
You're right about the Bond analogy though
Will

[Will Hay]

You're right, Will -- I typed that first remark ("Quality") first thing in my morning here (5:30am or so). I guess my eyes weren't open yet <g>.

Yes, I meant "qualify" -- my"f" got "t'ed", so to speak.

:P

And by all means let us know what you think of it again. I've seen it four or five times now, and I like it better each time (I've actually seen just about every Bond film multiple times: some, like OHMSS I've seen so many times I've lost count. Most improve on repeated viewings, although the Moore Bonds don't hold up at all IMHO, as their campiness was a definite child of the times).

Unfortunately, being born in 1971, my era was Moore although being older and wiser he's dropped so far down the list he might as well not be on it!
I would have loved to have seen Connery or Brosnan playing Moore's roles (when they were both at their peak of course), as I found the Moore films superb from a storyboard point of view (not so sure about Moonraker now though!).
Will

[mkelley]

Hmmm -- I don't want to go off topic here, but I suggest what you have for your son is instinct, not love.

Sorry, and don't want to sound too much like a socialist, but there are some very pragmatic reasons as to why your emotions are hardwired into feeling all gushy and doughy when it comes to your offspring. As they actually grow into a person you will start to experinence true love, but right now what you have is a mechanism (a very useful one at that, but still a mechanism).

But you had *better* know why you love your wife (my own would never let me get away with that kind of facile answer :>)! Unless it's just pheronomes!

[mkelley]

[(not so sure about Moonraker now though!).
Will

Yipes. Moonraker is very painful to watch now -- forgetting for a moment "Jaws" (who as a campy villian had some good points) there are some truly awful moments, like the whole space station sequence. It was probably the height of campiness (if I remember right, and I might not, after that they tried to return to a more serious tone with Moore as the series was declining).

Although I truly do hate the Moore Bonds right now, I think they were right for their times. But I'm glad we're back to a more serious mood nowadays.

[Will Hay]

Hmmm -- I don't want to go off topic here, but I suggest what you have for your son is instinct, not love.

Okay, I'll go with that to a certain extent, but lets leave it there

But you had *better* know why you love your wife (my own would never let me get away with that kind of facile answer :>)! Unless it's just pheronomes!

[Will Hay]

And by all means let us know what you think of it again. I've seen it four or five times now, and I like it better each time (I've actually seen just about every Bond film multiple times: some, like OHMSS I've seen so many times I've lost count. Most improve on repeated viewings, although the Moore Bonds don't hold up at all IMHO, as their campiness was a definite child of the times).

Incredibly I did enjoy it much more the second time, but even so...
...the invisible car, whilst they tried to justify the technology insofar as 'cameras refelecting the site back etc' it was just too much, as was the stunt with the tidal wave and the parachute. I know Bond is fantasy but that just wasn't believable, in fact it was ridiculous, as was the helicopter at the end starting up in mid-air.
The baddie girl was terribly badly cast, a very weak actress and Madonna should
a) never have been given so much power over the theme, the great thing about Bond themes is you can listen to them before you know what it is and still detect/suspect its a Bond theme. This crappy dance tune had none of that and
b) she should never been given a role in the movie, she's a shitty actress.
The car chasing scene was a let-down, there's only so much time you can enjoy watching cars skid around on ice.
As for the positives....
.....the past Bond references didn't seem as blase as I first thought, I enjoyed the story much more although again the DNA switching was just too much.
Whilst 'Face Off' was ridiculous it was more believable than this.
John Cleese was a perfect tribute, Judy Dench is wonderful and gets better every time and Moneypenny, whilst aging unfortunately, is superb and perfectly cast.
The direction was excellent, I just loved those 'speedied up' scenes, it really gave it a sense of individuality.
The whole principle of the 'sun gun' was very good, I just wish they'd have come up with something other than the DNA crap.
The fencing scene was very well done, and of course the 'gadget/comedy scene' was superb, as usual (in particular the 'manual/book/machine guns on the car' joke).
The scene in the rocket car with Bond trying to outrun the 'sun gun' was very good, including the 'hanging off the cliff' part but then the parachute shit happened (see above)
Okay, so I take it back, it wasn't the worst, but it wasn't Brosnan's best although it was better than Moonraker
Will

[energy80s]

[(not so sure about Moonraker now though!).
Will

Yipes. Moonraker is very painful to watch now -- forgetting for a moment "Jaws" (who as a campy villian had some good points) there are some truly awful moments, like the whole space station sequence. It was probably the height of campiness (if I remember right, and I might not, after that they tried to return to a more serious tone with Moore as the series was declining).

Although I truly do hate the Moore Bonds right now, I think they were right for their times. But I'm glad we're back to a more serious mood nowadays.

Nonesense, Mookraker is the best of the lot!!! The whole idea of the Bond series is that they don't take themselves at all seriously. I think that's where Tim Dalton failed, as he tried to do it straight.

[Will Hay]

I might be 32, but I can waste money like the rest of them.
I have, sat under my desk right now, a James Bond 1:16 radio controlled Aston Martin Vanquish!!!!!
Hell, it was only £19.99!
Yeah, big kid, I know
Can't wait to get home
Will

[mkelley]

Hey -- I *want*!!!

Are these things available in the U.S.? Do you have an Amazon.com reference? (Now I'm off to look).

(Helicopter bothered me quite a bit as well, unfortunately. I wish they had just had a Cessna or something, and had it failing backwards and finally start, but they kind of did that stunt already in GoldenEye, so I'm sure they were thinking this would be something new. But the invisible car is actually something I'm betting we'll see in our lifetime -- did you not see the invisibility cloak device this was based on? It was shown on Tech TV and it uses cameras the same way and already works surprisingly well. Very very eerie to see this effect -- or not see it -- in Real Life)

[Will Hay]

Hey -- I *want*!!!

Are these things available in the U.S.? Do you have an Amazon.com reference? (Now I'm off to look).

(Helicopter bothered me quite a bit as well, unfortunately. I wish they had just had a Cessna or something, and had it failing backwards and finally start, but they kind of did that stunt already in GoldenEye, so I'm sure they were thinking this would be something new. But the invisible car is actually something I'm betting we'll see in our lifetime -- did you not see the invisibility cloak device this was based on? It was shown on Tech TV and it uses cameras the same way and already works surprisingly well. Very very eerie to see this effect -- or not see it -- in Real Life)

Okay, but what about the worst one?
The ridiculous hang-gliding, snow boarding effect on the tidal wave?
Plu-eease!!!!
Honestly, if that had been dropped I would be complaining about the others, I could ahve put up with 'em/
Oh, and believe it or not the Aston Martin is on my desk right now, as I type
Whoo-hooooo!!!!!
Will

[mkelley]

No, but I already *told* you -- that stupid stunt was a tribute to the Roger Moore Bonds.

Truly -- there's not a doubt in my minds the producers intended it this way, with the way the entire movie was structured. Even the expression on Pierce's face is exactly the way Moore used to look on, oh, say just about every stunt he ever did (blue screen, naturally). Watch the way he drops off at the end and tell me that isn't *exactly* the same as Moore does in Live and Let Die (with the hang glider).

Yes, they could have left it out, but I think they were trying to at least include every Bond (personally I think the Moore years should just be erased from all our memories -- to me, they belong in the same category as Casino Royale. But, they were there, we need to accept them as part of the Bond pantheon and so I like the fact they were at least acknowledged in this movie).

[Will Hay]

Oh my!
That Aston Martin 1:16 readio controlled car is superb.
I'm thinking of making a movie and adding the theme to it, I may even upload it and let you all watch
Will

[mkelley]

I can't find it anywhere here -- although I can order it from overseas. But the cost (and shipping) seem prohibitive right now. Sigh.

Yes, make a vid and upload it somewhere. Would love to see it.

[mkelley]

Oh -- in a totally unrelated way (I really and truly just happened to come across this) I found a review of Moonraker that reminds me of just how bad this film is. After reading it, I now think firmly that Moonraker may well have been the all-time worse Bond movie of all (even worse than Casino Royale, which is saying something).

The fact that Moore was the Bond in this film should automatically disqualify him from any further consideration in this poll <g>.

http://www.agonybooth.com/moonraker/

[energy80s]

Ahhh, there's no hope foy ya!

[vhelp]

Hay guys.

I've ben checking out the James Bond Marathon this T-Giving Turkey weekend
bash..

Watching one of my favorites, Moonraker.. any of you Bond gurus
know who the blond chic was that saved Jaws ??

I wanted to search on Google to see if she's done any other movies, but I
can't fit her name to char to face

"his names' Jaws.. he kills people!!"

Thanks guys
-vhelp

[BJ_M]

Hay guys.

I've ben checking out the James Bond Marathon this T-Giving Turkey weekend
bash..

Watching one of my favorites, Moonraker.. any of you Bond gurus
know who the blond chic was that saved Jaws ??

I wanted to search on Google to see if she's done any other movies, but I
can't fit her name to char to face :cry:

"his names' Jaws.. he kills people!!"

Thanks guys :lol:
-vhelp

Blanche Ravalec (Dolly)

unless you mean the other blond that helped ... : Irka Bochenko (no name in movie)

[BobK]

David Niven played the first James Bond in the movie Casino Royale.

What do you mean "the first James Bond"? Sean Connery played in several Bond movies long before Casino Royale was filmed.

[mkelley]

I suspect what he meant was that IN the movie Casino Royale, the first James Bond (that is, the first Bond that appears in that particular movie) was David Niven.

If you remember the wreck that was CR, there were tons of James Bonds -- among them Jimmy Bond (played by Woody Allen). Sir James was the elder, David Niven, and the rest were related to him in various manners.

It has been rumored that Brocolli productions has reacquired the rights to this book (which were "lost" when the book was first sold to American television, in a relative short hour show that starred Barry Nelson as the true first James Bond (although not a movie -- here's a good link to the full story: http://www.universalexports.net/Movies/royale54.html ). If so, we may finally see a good version of this, although my preference would be to use an entirely new Bond for a one-off story about the "early days" similar to what they appear to be doing now for Batman. Get some good-looking kid and attract a brand-new audience. But who listens to me? <g>