Need Help With VCD Playback Quality!!!!!!!

[jsl272003]

Here is my question...i am currently backing up my dvds to CD/R 80 minute 700 mb each. It takes 2 disks per movie, which is fine with me, but i cant seem to tweak the video quality so that it doesnt look choppy or blocky when i play it back in my dvd player. i am using DVD Decryptor, DVD2AVI, TEMPGnc with toolame and ssrc plugins. Does anyone have any suggestion on what settings they have found to be the best in TEMPGnc or any suggestions on better software. Please any help would be appreciated.

[Grim-Ripper]

Would help if u posted settings u use for
DVD2AVI and TMPGenc

PAL or NTSC?

[Ejoc]

Best settings in TMPGEnc: a CVD/SVCD Template, VCD is painful

[jsl272003]

the settings i use are NTSC, Dolby Digital Decode and MPEG Audio Demux and Forced Film in DVD2AVI. In TMPGenc i use " Video-CD NTSC (MPEG-1 480x480 23.976fps CQ_VBR 60, Layer-2 44100Hz 224kbps)" and MPEG 1 video, 480 x 480 pixel size, 4:3 525 line (NTSC), 23.976 FPS, Automatic VBR (CQ_VBR). Hope these settings will help determine what i need to change. thanks for the help. I also use Ulead DVD Movie Factory to burn so that i can add my chapters to the videos.

[Ejoc]

Mpeg-1 @ 480x480 ? Thats 1/2 VCD and 1/2 SVCD either make it:

Mpeg-1 352x240 CBR or
Mpeg-2 480x480 CBR/VBR

[jsl272003]

ok cool...so do the other settings look ok? and where can i get the cvd templates you were talking about. i know i have read on here that people are making backups on cd that looks like the dvd..any idea on how they do it..i am still semi new to this. thanks again.

[Ejoc]

I have some on my site, follow the link in my sig.

[telemike]

You may want to look at www.kvcd.net and look at the KVCD type video cd.

You an use avisynth filters to reduce blockiness and increase compression.

Have you tried 352x240 Video CD MPEG-1, min bitrate = 300, max bitrate = 2200?

[theDruid]

The only thing with straying from the standards is that you may have compatibility problems with standalone players.

CVD is supported by some players, as are xVCD's (e.g. KVCD) - but not all.

I'm always weary of using these non-standard formats - just because my current player will play a disc does not mean my next one will, and then I could end up with a collection of discs that don't work anymore!

just a thought - if you don't like VCD quality, you could try SVCD (if your player supports it, again). There are freeware MPEG-2 encoders and tools - not as many as MPEG-1, but some (e.g. bbMPEG).

cheers,
mcdruid.

[jsl272003]

thanks ejoc, i have downloaded a template from your site and it works good. i have went to using VCDEasy and so far it is working good. i can go in and set the max file size. What i am doing now is using the wizard in TMPGenc and using VCD FIlm, which encodes at 23.976 FPS, and set the Max File Size to use 100% of the disk. I will try to get AVISYnth and see what that does. Man this stuff gets confusing...lol....

Druid, one of my dvd players, Sony, does not support the SVCD format but my other one, Apex, does...but here is my question, if i encode in the MPEG 2 format, can i still use only 2 disk instead of going to 3 or more?

again, thanks for all the help[.

[theDruid]

if i encode in the MPEG 2 format, can i still use only 2 disk instead of going to 3 or more?

yes - the bitrate for SVCD is not fixed like it is in (standards compliant) VCD.

Use a bitrate calculator (several in the tools section) to work out what bitrate you need to encode at to get your film to totally fill two discs, but no more.

cheers,
mcdruid.

[jeg_jason]

First of all, I would like to say that using SVCD, CVD, or DVDR will give you much better results. If you really want to make the best backup possible get a DVD burner. Dual format burners are well under $200 online. In addition, DVD discs can be purchased online for as little as about a dollar a piece. Furthermore, the ability to burn an exact image of a DVD-5 (single layer) with DVD Decrypter and quickly transcode a DVD-9 (double layer) to DVDR(W) size with a program like DVD Shrink or DVD2one will preserve much more quality and functionality. If you want all the quality retained, a DVD-9 could be burned to two DVDR discs retaining all menus and original video quality with the right programs.

Now for VCD quality this is what I used to use before giving up on fairly quickly. First check the CD writer comments on the left of the page to see if your writer supports burning to 90/99 minute CD-R discs. Also you have to check and see if your CD burning program supports overburning. If both are capable buy some 99 minute discs online even though they are getting harder to find. This will allow you to fit much more video on a single disc. By lowering the video and audio bitrates after using a bitrate calculator, I was able to fit as much as a two hour movie on a single disk. Although quality suffered a little more VCD is not very good anyway which is why you are seeing blocks. Filters can help reduce the blockiness but not eliminate it especially in high motion scenes. I even tried softening the video by decreasing sharpness to no avail. Now I use the 99 minute disks only for making SVCDs of TV episode captures after removing commercials. For programs longer than an hour or backing up a new DVD that I have bought I use my DVD burner. For me VCD was an exercise in frustration and a waste of my time for the quality of the end product that I was getting. SVCD is better and DVD is great when it comes to DVD backups.

I hope this helps.

[jsl272003]

Thanks everyone for the help...I sure do appreciate it and i think i have it now where i want it. I am going to get a dvd burner soon but till then i am playing it this way with the cds...Oh by the way, can someone please explain what XVCD and CVD are? and what is the best format to put them in to burn to 2 disks?

[theDruid]

jsl272003 - see the top left of the screen/site - under WHAT IS for CVD/xVCD.

[jsl272003]

ok one last question and then i think i will have it. i read the diffences between the different formats. Now if i encode a full dvd onto 1 cd and keep the bitrate between 500 and 1000 with a max of about 2500, what do you think the quality will be. i dont want to have to encode for 3 hours to find out i dont like it. i have found a really good bitrate calculatr to determine what i should use depending on the format, length of movie, and how many disks i want to use.

[theDruid]

Are you planning to do MPEG-1 or MPEG-2?

Either way, a bitrate as low as 500 to 1000 is unlikely to look that great - think well-used VHS tape or worse.

I would recommend splitting across 2 CD's - it's not that bad having to change the disc once during a movie!

At the end of the day, quality on (S)VCD is very subjective - some people here absolutely hate VCD at standard bitrate (which as you now know is 1150 kbit/sec MPEG-1) - whereas some people swear by squeezing movies onto 1 CD.

I suppose it partly depends on what you're using for playback - the small resolution of VCD's, and low bitrate MPEG-1 probably does look awful on a cinema screen! but on a modest TV (<30 inch?) it's not so noticable.

Try just encoding a clip from the video - a good test is to find some high-motion scenes in the film, and encode just 5 minutes or so. Then author & burn onto a CD-RW and see what it looks like.

If you can live with the quality at a low bitrate which will allow you to squeeze onto 1 CD, then that's fine. If not, do the calculations again for 2 discs.

cheers,
mcdruid.

[Gazorgan]

DVD2SVCD is pretty much click and go for DVD backups to SVCD. Quality for 2-pass VBR can be indistinguishable from DVD on 25" TV ses and smaller. Supports AC5.1 downmix to positional 2 channel PM2.

[jsl272003]

Ok thank you very much Druid. I plan on doing mpeg 2 on 2 cds, was just wondering what would happen if i tried 1 cd. i dont mind having to change the disk. Again thanks for all the answers and help you haver given me.

[theDruid]

no problem - you're welcome.

[Ejoc]

1000kbps would look bad. If you are using low bitrates CVD looks vs SVCD. CVD is a valid DVD screen resolution, so converting CVD -> DVD is pretty easy.

CVD is supported by some players, as are xVCD's (e.g. KVCD) - but not all.

I'm always weary of using these non-standard formats

CVD is a standard format, its just less supported then SVCD, which isnt always supported either.

[telemike]

Check out Eazyvcd for an easy to use program or DVD2SVCD for SVCD's

Personally, I would look at Eazyvcd for your application.

[telemike]

Oh, before I started making SVCD's that are near dvd quality I was making XVCD's.

I was using Eazyvcd and using a CBR of around 1500 - 1750 and it looked pretty darn good compared to standard VCD bitrate of 1150. At a bitrate of 1750, MPEG-1 XVCD is not blocky and has good detail. Not as much or as sharp as DVD but really watchable.

I also have a Terapin VCD recorder that is ok but i almost never use it except for VHS backups and TV recording.

Please give Eazyvcd a try at 1500-1750 bitrate

[jsl272003]

thank you telemike. i have tried easy vcd and did not really like it. the way i am doing it now and getting good results is....

DVD Decryptor ---> rip vob files
DVD2AVI ----> get my audio, use forced film to convert to 23.97 FPS
TMPGenc -----> use the wizard to encode SVCD and set the max file size
100 % of the cd. ( i use 2 cds) and it automatically
set the bitrate.
VCDEasy-----> set chapter points (so you can press the "next" button on
dvd remote and go to the next screne) and get my .bin
and .cue files.
Nero -----> burn image to cd.

[Ejoc]

The only real differences between the way we do it are:

-I use CVD, CVD has less blockness at lower bitrates vs SVCD
-I use a 2pass VBR, you didnt say, but you probably are using CBR (big difference in video quality)
-1 Burn /w VCDEasy

[jsl272003]

i was using the 2 pass vbr but it just takes to dang long. you are right i am using cbr and like i said i let the tmpgenc wizard determine my bitrate after i set the disk usage percent at 100. but it seems like we do it about the same. as far as burning with vcdeasy i keep getting an error about the cdrao ( i think that is what it is called) so i just use nero.

[Ejoc]

VBR will make you picture better. Do it.
CVD helps too and its a valid DVD resolution, my players support, if yours does, I'D suggest using it.

[jsl272003]

ok i will do it..what program makes the cvd?[/b]

[Ejoc]

TMPGEnc makes it, use any SVCD authoring program, when it says the video's outa spec, ignore it and burn.

[jsl272003]

ok i dont remember seeing cvd in tmpgenc but i will look again. also what do you use as your avg and max and min bitrates when you set it to 2 pass vbr? and on the cvd do you just select scvd and change the pixle rate and to what do you set it?

[Ejoc]

I have CVD TMPGEnc templates on my site.