DVD+R versus DVD-R for burning movies only, which is best?

[golfnut]

Obviously by the question I am pretty new at this so wanted to ask those "in the know" before I produce the dreaded "coasters". I have burned several dvd movies while backing up my collection using dvd+r blanks. My question is this, are dvd-r blanks as good quality wise for recording movies as dvd-r? The -r's are much cheaper than +r's is the reason for my question. Would it be strictly a compatability issue with the hardware. I am using a Pioneer DVD 105 Rom and the new Plextor 708 recorder if this helps answer my question. Thanks to everyone for the advice.

[g_shocker182]

Would it be strictly a compatability issue with the hardware.

Yes. There shouldn't be a difference in quality.

[thayne]

I can make 100% compatible DVD's with my Memorex DVD+R/W drive. Any Ricoh based + burner can set the book type to DVD-ROM which make the disk 100% compatible, no - burner can do that.

[golfnut]

Thayne are you saying that you can not use dvd-r's for burning movies eventhough my burner, Plextor 708 is capable of burning both DVD +-R/RW. Thank you for your reply.

[thayne]

No, you can use dvd-r's all I was saying is I can make 100% compatible with the +R's. -R's are about 85% compatible with set top players. For you it really doesnt matter. Your burner cannot set the book type so it doesnt really matter.

[golfnut]

Gotcha! While I am at it have you found any particular brand of discs better than others. I have been using fuji so what but they too are expensive compared to maxwell, memorex, tdk, etc. I was just afraid to buy the other brands as I did not know. I am in the process of backing up my entire collection, 280+ movies, so price is a real issue but then so is quality. Thank you.

[thayne]

Yes, Ritek for sure. They are pretty cheap too. I bought 50 DVD+R's yesterday for $1.16 ea and they have the -R's for as low as 80 cents ea.

https://www.videohelp.com/click?id=31&site=http://www.supermediastore.com/

[golfnut]

Great, thanks for recommendation. How much was shipping?

[thayne]

Great, thanks for recommendation. How much was shipping?

it was under $6 for ground

[lordsmurf]

No, you can use dvd-r's all I was saying is I can make 100% compatible with the +R's. -R's are about 85% compatible with set top players. For you it really doesnt matter. Your burner cannot set the book type so it doesnt really matter.

I'm normally pretty passive on this issue, but that's baloney.

DVD-R has a compatibility of about 90-95%
DVD+R has a compatibility of about 85-90%

The +R booktype does change this, but 100% is an exaggeration (at least on a large scale, your personal experience excluded). It may bring is closer to 90-95% (making the formats identical), but tests have not been done as of yet. Plus that feature is only available on +R only drives, not dual format burners.

Come on. Let's call it how we see it. 8)

And I don't care what anybody buys.
Whatever works for you is the best thing to get.

My personal experience shows a 99% compatibility using DVD-R, but that just means I've not found the 4-9 percent of players that hate DVD-R. Sounds like you're having the same good luck, Thayne.

[Igit]

Hi I have a question about this booktype thing how do u do it i have a nec nd1100a +r/rw only burner

thank u

[thayne]

Search google for an app called dvdinfo, you can use that to view/change your booktype settings

[StudeBarc]

lordsmurf,

A simple question. Have you made a DVD-Video burned to a +R disc and set to DVD-Rom using a bit-setting application?

I would believe Thayne has and so have I, many times. The result is playable on more of the older generation DVD players than -R, simply because the player will not reject the disc based on book-type. Older players look for DVD-Rom book-type and if it's -R or +R book it will reject the disc.

That's not saying that -R isn't very compatible, nor saying +R isn't very compatible as your percentages show. A third option would be +R as DVD-Rom and I would dare say that result would be nearing 100%. I say nearing 100% due to the lower reflectivity on burned media to Pressed DVD-Rom as the only possible hindrance.

Regards
Studebarc 8)

[DereX888]

thayne wrote in this thread:

I can make 100% compatible DVD's with my Memorex DVD+R/W drive. Any Ricoh based + burner can set the book type to DVD-ROM which make the disk 100% compatible, no - burner can do that.

because you change bookype to -ROM it doesnt make it 100% compatible at all. It is still DVD+R disc, just with the fake book type, and many standalone dvd players with its hardware limitations still won't be able to read it.

Last winter we did tests on 30+ various brand/model standalone dvd players in one of the electronics store.
I don't remember exact numbers (you can find my old post in this forum), but I remember that not even half of them were able to somewhat play DVD+R movie (many of those that played +R were troubled by navigation, FF, REW and menu problems). Don't take me wrong, I have +/- writers and my own standalone players can read +, -, and -RAM, therefore I don't care which format will prevail in near future.
I'm just stating the facts: "+" formats are much much less compatible with currently available standalone players (and even less with older models) than "-" format. While only less than half of players could play "+" discs, almost all could play "-" discs (AFAIR only 2 out of 30+ players had problem with DVD-R/RW).

BTW - for our tests we burned same movie .iso image on DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R (with DVD-ROM book type), DVD+R and DVD+RW. Changing book type of DVD+R made difference to only one standalone player (Apex). All other players if they didn't play 'standard' DVD+R, they didn't play DVD+R with hacked book type either.

[thayne]

I have tested it on several player and machines that do not support DVD+R and they all work including my Xbox and iBook DVD player. My boss has a DVD player that doesn't support any DVDR and when I made him a disk with the booktype set to DVD-ROM it played flawlessly.

When you change the booktype it does become a DVD-ROM as far as players are concerned. It's the booktype ID that tells the player what kind of disk it is. When you set it to DVD-ROM they player thinks it is a DVD-ROM. The file system is exactlly the same so the only reason it wouldn't work is if the player has some kind of defect in it's laser.

If I were you I would open those disks you made with dvdinfo and check to be sure the booktype is actually set to DVD-ROM. You siad you have a +- burner and I may be wrong but I don't think any of the +- burners can change the booktype.

[StudeBarc]

Derex888,

I agree with Thayne on the point of actually checking Book-Type.

I have been involved with DVDInfo and DVDinfoPro since inception and one of the influences there was to allow ALL Book-Types to be written to DVD+R/RW discs. Players that play -R but not +R book will instantly play +R discs as -R or DVD-Rom. What that means is that despite differences in burning navigation (wobbled groove V Pre-Pits) and Lead-In writing the end data on disc is exactly the same.

I have used a Toshiba SD2109 as a test unit. This model and firmware will play DVD-Rom and DVD-R book-types. It will not play + or - RW or +R book-types. I have run several +R discs as rom and -R books and they play perfectly in either case, navigation is no different. Your authoring/burn method and indeed possibly media quality is questionable if you found that the case.

Further a Toshiba SD2108 which will not play -R or +R book-type was tested with a +R disc as Rom and the player responds perfectly.

I can also (and I do) burn -R discs for my own purposes, however when moving out Home/Client Vids on DVD I will always prefer DVD+R as DVD-Rom burns. Oh and YES media quality is an important factor in ALL cases.

Regards
Studebarc 8)

[BeachNut]

Yes, Ritek for sure. They are pretty cheap too. I bought 50 DVD+R's yesterday for $1.16 ea and they have the -R's for as low as 80 cents ea.

https://www.videohelp.com/click?id=31&site=http://www.supermediastore.com/

I've been a wonderin if there's much quality difference between dvd-r's. I've been pickin' up cheap Bell DVD's from eastern europe but I've had a few failures. I'm now onto Verbatim which never let me down as far as CD-RW goes. Maybe someone can set up a top 10 DVD-R chart ?

[LanEvo7]

+ and - R are basically the same thing. Most currently players will play both regardless. That whole +R booktype thing about having 100% compatibility is bull.

[tompika]

Last winter we did tests on 30+ various brand/model standalone dvd players in one of the electronics store.
BTW - for our tests we burned same movie .iso image on DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R (with DVD-ROM book type) , DVD+R and DVD+RW. Changing book type of DVD+R made difference to only one standalone player (Apex). All other players if they didn't play 'standard' DVD+R, they didn't play DVD+R with hacked book type either.

Derex888, here is the test you did last winter.
It clearly shows that you burned with a Sony dual burner that is not capable of bitsetting.
YOU ARE A LIAR!

It is still DVD+R disc, just with the fake book type, and many standalone dvd players with its hardware limitations still won't be able to read it

Now this is plain stupid. If a player can read Dual layer discs and DVD-R then its phisically able to read a good quality DVD+R(W) disc.



To the other smart guys:

If you never had a Ricoh burner, if you never burned good quality RICOHJPN discs in it and you never tried them in min 50 players then don't say a word about their compatibility and about the bitsetting.

Regards, tompika

[DereX888]

@tompika:

Thx for finding out my old post about tests.
LOL for calling me a liar!
Yes, I made few +R test discs on a sony burner using various burning software i had at that time, but some -R, -RAM, +VR (or whatchamacallit) and +R with dvd-rom booktype were made by other people participating in this test.
Perhaps +R with -ROM booktype were the ones that somewhat played on some dvd players in our tests, yet as it came out in our tests, and as I said earlier here: +R format is NOT compatible with most of standalone players currently on the market. Ditto on the subject of +R compatibility.

Derex888 wrote:
It is still DVD+R disc, just with the fake book type, and many standalone dvd players with its hardware limitations still won't be able to read it

Now this is plain stupid. If a player can read Dual layer discs and DVD-R then its phisically able to read a good quality DVD+R(W) disc.

If it is stupid then how will you explain fact that some standalones able to perfectly read DVD9s, able to play -R discs, couldn't even recognise +R discs showing NO DISC, DISC ERROR etc messages?


@StudeBarc, @Thayne:

Rather sooner than later all standalones will have better firmware of their dvd-rom drives inside and they all will play any kind of -/+ recordables, and hacking book-type on +R discs will be unneccessary.
In theory I agree with your arguments that standalones should read +R with -ROM booktype as DVD-ROM, but real life test with current standalones (well, 9 mths ago) proved it differently.
Since I don't own any of those, I can't discuss X-Box, PS2 or any other device's compatibility - nor we haven't test any of them. I can only imagine that such 'dumbed-down computers' should have built-in better quality, more compatible dvd-rom that should be able to read far more dvd/cd recordable formats than any standalone dvd player.

[thayne]

If it is stupid then how will you explain fact that some standalones able to perfectly read DVD9s, able to play -R discs, couldn't even recognise +R discs showing NO DISC, DISC ERROR etc messages?

That would be because of the booktype. My iBook will spit out DVD+R/W's, but with a DVD-ROM booktype playes them fine. If the DVD player is hardwired to play DVD-ROM and DVD-R, then it will not recognise DVD+R, it has nothing to do with the data on the disks...

[tompika]

If it is stupid then how will you explain fact that some standalones able to perfectly read DVD9s, able to play -R discs, couldn't even recognise +R discs showing NO DISC, DISC ERROR etc messages?

Do you really think that the plus format is difficult to read for a player but the minus is easy?

I tell you the reason why some players refuse to play them

When they detect a booktype they know like DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW the firmware starts to play them but when its different they refuse and gives you error message.


And yes I call you a liar, you just found out that bitsetting was included in your test.
"You made a few DVD+R rips " is in your postS.
You never ever mentioned this not even in that three PM you sent me.

I think Im gonna do a DVD-R compatibility test tomorrow including 500 player, and change the story about it every 6 months!

You can talk about the compatibility of the minus format or the DVD+R you burn with your dual burner but forget about the bitsetting.
You got nothing to do with it!

And you shouldn't teach StudeBarc about DVDburners and their compatibility as he knows hundred times more than you ever will.

Case closed, be happy.

[DereX888]

@thayne

We missed out on the point that vast majority of people who may be burning "+" discs anyway have "+/-" writers, owners of plain "+ only" writers are such minority as MAC users :P (check out polls HERE, only 16% own plain "+" writers WOW, thats actually like 5x more than MAC users :P)
Current manufacturer's trend is both +/- formats anyway, therefore IIRC it is not possible to fake -ROM type on +R on them multiformat writers. But assuming it will be possible to do: if you can just burn -R that does the same thing and it plays on more standalone players too, why bother making +R with fake -ROM type, or even why bother using +R at all

Not having any "+ only" writer myself, and owning multiformat writers I must admit that I haven't burn any "+" discs for ages, and I am not going to bother with this format at all since I can't see any logic in using less compatible "+" format when more compatible "-" format is available on my writers.
Let the facts speak for itself, I don' see any point in discussing it further.

[tompika]

I can't see any logic in using less compatible "+" format when more compatible "-" format is available on my writers

Nobody asked you to do so.

why bother making +R with fake -ROM type, or even why bother using +R at all

Stop recruiting let people do what they want.

You made your point we made ours, now piss off, liar!

I'm in breach of the forum rules and being issued with a formal warning.
/ I'm not moderated anymore!

[DereX888]

@tomika

I don't TEACH anyone here. I read someone else's and present my own opinions. Thats for what *discussion* boards are for.

Your stubborness in proving "+R" format to be as compatible as "-R" is worth awarding you some prize from Sony or other promoters of "+" format. To me this kind of affection that people like you have is what I call "fanboy attitude" (i.e. endless war-like discussions about what is better between nVidia fanboys vs. ATI fanboys, Intel fanboys vs. AMD fanboys etc).
Somehow I can understand your affection to your hardware, I love my PCs and its guts as well, however I don't make preferences by brands or formats. Im not a 'fanboy', I buy/use whatever is most convenient to me at the moment. If "+R" will become dominant format on the market - I will be the first one to switch to it.
So no need to "threat" that you will do your own test on 500 players - please do so. I'm anxious to read about its results. Im sure compatibility level of "+" format with standalone players should be higher now, but Im also sure it still haven't reach that of "-" format compatibility level.

But insisting that Im a liar because I disagree with you - well; you can say whatever you want, it doesnt hurt me at all. It only describe yourself more than anything else.

(and there he got "pissed" and moderated lol... what a fool)

[MOVIEGEEK]

God help us,not another "-R vs.+R" debate!
What is best is what works with your writer and plays on your DVD-ROM and standalone.....period.

[tompika]

If I made a compatibility test I would not change the details after a couple of months!

[DereX888]

God help us,not another "-R vs.+R" debate!

Not really. More like outburst of unconditional love to +R format by some die-hard case of stubborn board user who can't stomache fact of +R's lower compatibility with standalones

What is best is what works with your writer and plays on your DVD-ROM and standalone.....period.

EXACTLY!
I forgot to write it myself previously.

[thayne]

Not having any "+ only" writer myself, and owning multiformat writers I must admit that I haven't burn any "+" discs for ages, and I am not going to bother with this format at all since I can't see any logic in using less compatible "+" format when more compatible "-" format is available on my writers.
Let the facts speak for itself, I don' see any point in discussing it further.

The point is you can make a 100% compatible disk with a DVD+R with a DVD-ROM booktype, where DVD-R is at best 90% compatible....

Not really. More like outburst of unconditional love to +R format by some die-hard case of stubborn board user who can't stomache fact of +R's lower compatibility with standalones

Sorry bud, but the DVD's I make are 100% compatible....