Disney Disposable DVDs debut today

[NightWing]

The whole catch is not the media, price, etc. Which are major items. But how can a small rack with a few 2nd/3rd unknown run movies beat a Blockbuster, Hollywood video, etc for content?

And no the 1st run only on this also makes no sense. Another idea that times will never come.

Dident Dominos have DVD free with pizza a while back. Old titles I think. But think they were "normal"

[twinches]

Well I'm no store clerk, but I think if they were only 3.99 and they had a good selection of movie titles, then they would sell like crazy. I mean, isnt 3.99 the rental price at blockbuster? (it is in my town) And you would have to return it. So for 3.99 and nothing to return would be a convenance at no additional cost. If you read any stock news on Blockbuster there are lots of articles that say how blockbuster makes most of its money from late fees (like 80%) and if making these ez-dvd's the same price with out having to retun them, would really hurt blockbuster. If I wasn't happy with Netflix then I would by them at 3.99 instead of going to blockbuster.

[mkelley]

You raise an interesting point... and then negate it by your last line where you say you're not interested in this (because you belong to Netflix).

The problem is the market for this is vanishing. This is truly an idea whose time has gone (and maybe never was). Video rental stores are experimenting with no late fees, subscription rates, lowering prices, etc. DVDs themselves are getting lower and lower priced. And Netflix and Walmart both have schemes which are very attractive to volume renters.

In short, the *only* possible individual these could appeal to are impulse buyers. And I said it before (but I'll say it again) DVDs just don't lend themselves to impulse buys, at least not disposable ones. It's not like you're standing in line and think "Wow, just what I needed, batteries, some gum, and 'Signs'".

It's early days yet, but these things are exactly flying off the shelves and I'm fairly sure that will remain the case. They just don't offer anything, and in return have fairly sizable drawbacks. I don't see these selling for ANY price, let alone $3.99

[cplevel42]

I would never do this, but I'm just curious. Can these discs be copied with decrypter?

[bugster]

I would never do this, but I'm just curious. Can these discs be copied with decrypter?

Read the start of the thread, but yes, as long as its before the 48hours (or so) is up.

There were also a number of posts discussing the legality (or not) of 'backing up' this type of disc to DVDr, after all, you still own the original! 8)

[FOO]

I'm afraid I dropped the ball here. I was supposed to
try to "recover " the disk and report.
The opaque area is in the Glue between the aluminium film and the
bottom plastic. the bottom plastic is red and didn't change. The Glue
turned BLUE not black. Light going through both blue and red will get
stopped and look black.
I split the layers and half the blue came off with red part.
If I get all the glue off I'll try to read it.

I got it off but scratched it. It won't read.
I now think that this is possible with more care. If I had another,
now that I know the structure, I think I could do it.

[The village idiot]

So it sounds like the red part is red all the way through.

If you had a blue laser, you could read it after removig the red part

[mkelley]

I got it off but scratched it. It won't read.
I now think that this is possible with more care. If I had another,
now that I know the structure, I think I could do it.

It won't read at all, or it reads with errors? If the latter, then you're probably right -- otherwise, I'm not sure you got any closer.

Yipes!! Just what the heck am I saying? I don't care one whit about this (well, maybe as an intellectual process). I want to see these things go the way of the Divx (my new term for Dodo). Still, it would be interesting to see if they could be defeated if only for the old "when they build better protection, the crackers will find a way to defeat it" theory.

[FOO]

I assure you my only interest is the challenge.
I'm not even willing to go get another one.

...The drive wouldnt even register it, But there was a large scratch
near the hub. I used the hair removal technique. Apply Duck (quack) tape
and jerk it off quick. Works.

[twinches]

@mkelley

Your right in that I'm not interested in these as I'm happy with netflix and I my average cost is about 2.00 a rental for the amount of dvds that I recieve and rate plan that I'm on. But I'm just saying that for the mass consumer market that these would take off if 1. Most new release were available 2. they sold for the same a blockbuster rental.

As far as impluse "buys" you are right, DVDs are not. But the are impluse "rentals" . When nextflix went public on the stock market, investers didn't beleive it would ever make money because when most people want to rent a movie , it is on impluse. They are sitting at home and say, there is nothing on tv tonight lets go rent a moive. And off they go to Blockbuster that for me is further away than my corner Wallgreens. So If I were a normal consumer and did not mind waiting for netflix movies to be delivered to my house, and there were a lot of new titles available on these EZ-dvds and they sold for 3.99. Then I would rather drive up to the corner wallgreens and buy it and not have to return it, rather than got to blockbuster which is 4 miles from my house and have to return it 3 days later. Plus have to wait in the long checkout lines at blockbuster on a Friday night really sucks.

[mkelley]

Well, we just disagree then. My experience (with my friends -- like you, I use Netflix) is they don't rent movies on an impulse, but plan their weekends around them. Visiting the rental store is about as easy as going to their supermarket, and unless the self-destruct DVDs can compete in selection they don't have a snowball's chance in hell of even selling slightly (and they can't compete in selection unless they make a video store out of them... which defeats the whole purpose).

Nope, this is an easy one to call -- just like I predicted the death of Divx back when all the pundits where saying it was the greatest thing since sliced bread. It took a while but I was right, and I'm sure I'm right here. You won't see any self-destruct DVDs in '05, of that I'm willing to bet.

[FOO]

Sliced bread sucks . You don't get to choose the slice thickness.
I have a knife

[mkelley]

I agree with you totally, Foo. I always buy the unsliced bread when I can get it.

But the expression dates back 1928, when Rohwedder invented the bread slicer. Up until then, no one could ever sell presliced bread and so it was such a novelty people thought it was the greatest thing ever.

Oh, to be living in a time when a thing such as sliced bread could actually inspire awe and wonder. Nowdays we'd probably say "the greatest thing since personal DVD burners" or some such. Unfortunately, technology being what it is, nothing ever amazes us for long nowadays.

[FOO]

It's all about novelty.
My mother grew up on a farm and they had REAL butter.
She said they all went nuts when OLEO came out
because it came in square sticks. I don't like vegetable oil
colored with YELLOW DYE NO. 69 . They had it good and didn't know it

...and just to prove i'm insane , I am exactly the kind of person
that would invent a bread slicer just because I love gadgets.

.

[Styro]

I'll agree with, er, whoever, that dvd rental is not usually done on impulse. I plan out my Netflix rentals, with care, weeks ahead of the release of a movie. Sometimes I'll spot one I missed in the BestBuy advert, but Sunday isn't too late to add for a Tuesday release.

The price-point that was choosen was rather poor. If you want to catch dvd impulse purchasers the price should be at least $1 less than the lowest local rental price (unless the local rental is $1 then just give up). I'm not about to buy one of these unless I'm desparate for entertainment, have money to burn, there is a reasonable selection, and I have the time to make an archival backup.

-- Styro

[zanos]

This will not be as successful as divx.

[Capt_Diode]

To All,

I have read all 5 pages on this and am left with several thoughts.

1. Is the DVD actually a dvd/r that has the reflective layer coated to remove reflectivity? (Red to Black) Since size is 4.7G would agree with single layer or DVD/R. This method might actually be affordable to produce in quantity cheap. With that said if the reflective layer was removed and replaced with another layer that was reflective whould it continue to play?

2. I agree that cost and selection is poor but PPV in hotels do well and cost the same for single view. (Though focus is porn)

3. If oxygen starts the aging process, can another chemical slow or stop the aging process. Say the kiddy spills his cereal and milk over the disk and it plays forever kind of thing.

4. If the cover that turns red to black was removed in the duct tape method mentioned here, what would happen if it was removed and replaced with another reflective cover/sticker.

5. Can it be confirmed that there is or isn't an actual stamped DVD inside the plastic? If so, then removing the outer layers may return the DVD back to operation or another sticker to return reflectivity.

6. Is it possible that this technology was developed to make the logic of spending a few dollars more for the real thing more sensible? 7vs15? Or that a movie ticket costs more and you and your friends can experience the movie in your own theater?

I also agree this technology just out and out SUCKS! I think it would be incredibly funny that if a simple solution renders the death of the DVD impossible. Remember a few months ago when it was discovered that a sharpie maker disabled the copy protection on music CD's.

I hope this is useful, I would hate have to leave the forum in 48 hours.

Cheers,
Captain Diode

[FOO]

1. No method except stamped would be feasible. Can't be optically written.

3. You can guess all you want . Soduim Hypochlorite won't bleach it.
Currently working my way up throught the more active solvents

4 The cover is red and stays red. The DUCK tape was to remove the
layer after that - the BLUE glue

5. No shit , that was the plan

6. No. that's nuts

[Capt_Diode]

1. No method except stamped would be feasible. Can't be optically written.

My thought was along the DVD-R/+R media which can be reproduced in towers. After all, The media could not have been fully created in a nitrogen environment.

3. You can guess all you want . Soduim Hypochlorite won't bleach it. Currently working my way up throught the more active solvents

Just A thought outside the box so to speak.....

4 The cover is red and stays red. The Duct tape was to remove the layer after that - the BLUE glue

Then what turned black?

5. No shit , that was the plan

Well now you've gone and hurt my last feeling...... No wonder I don't post much!

6. No. that's nuts

Well now I just feel stupid! You know I've met people who actualy feel this way. Hard to beleive but true. I could explain further but for fear of the noob factor I will stop here.

In my mind, the technology to destroy a disk would be outside not inside the plastic covering of the disk. Therfore I thought if I wanted to render a disk unusable I would attack the outside of the media.

I have to admit I thought my comments where thought provoking and at least added to the discusion. I've been a member here for almost two and a half years. I rarely post but read often. Foo, Your comments may be simple but serve me as to why should I add to the thread. I have valid questions after reading 5 pages of this topics. To be dismissed as a noob really keeps me and the other people who may have positve input in the sidelines.

Although I don't feel you comments were a direct attack, I can't help but feel stepped on.

I will return to the sidelines as an observer....

I hope that this thread has a positive outcome....

I think this Idea will fall in the same direction as Circuit City's version of DIVX, (Which by the way was broken if you had a player).

Captain Diode,
Inch Shorter, Crawling under rock..............................

[NightWing]

The plastic uses for the disk is special with added chemical mixed in I guess. In other words it not skin deep. Saw some stuff on their web site stating to about this effect. GE makes the special plastic. Wonder if its like epoxi glue?

[mkelley]

Captain,

Ah, don't be so sensitive. Seriously.

While there is a tendancy to feel put down in any forum thread by a careless remark, the real bottom line is how you express yourself and what you contribute. I thought your thoughts were well written and interesting, and did contribute to the thread. Others may or may not have thought otherwise, but I certainly wouldn't let it keep me from participating in the future.

However... I do understand how you feel. I'm fairly active on another forum in which I am by far the most prolific poster (by about a 2 to 1 ratio over the next most active). I always feel I try and be helpful, even if I'm not an expert on everything that's asked. But for as long as I've been there someone posted a comment that really hurt, and kept me away for a while (I only came back when people ended up asking for me to come back).

I'm an old man and by now in life shouldn't take these things so seriously, but sometimes you feel like it's not worth the effort if you aren't appreciated -- so, as I say, I emphathize. But I don't think Foo was being unkind, just rather abrupt in the way he expressed himself.

In any case, as the person who started this thread, I'm glad you jumped in and gave your two cents. Don't feel like you can't do that in the future -- for every person who complains there will be at least three or four who are silent supporters.

[TBoneit]

I bet if they put porn on them, it would be a hit

Funny you should say that, In two instances I can think of,

A video store owner I knew for a long time has certain customers that would rent adult titles and return weeks later.

And a maintanence person at McDonalds I knew would periodically find adult videos in the outside garbage cans, we speculated that the person didn't want them in the house but also didn't want them on his rental history... So they were being bought and disposed of discretely.

So for these people limited life DVDs like these disney titles would make sense.

Stray thoughts rising to the surface of course

Cheers

[Cornucopia]

[quote="FOO"]It's all about novelty.
My mother grew up on a farm and they had REAL butter.
She said they all went nuts when OLEO came out
because it came in square sticks. I don't like vegetable oil
colored with YELLOW DYE NO. 69 . They had it good and didn't know it
quote]

My dad (83 years old) says that when OLEO came out it was white! They only added the dye later on to make it more "butter"-looking. Ended up putting too much yellow in.

[gmatov]

Cornucopia,
Actually, the dairy farmers fought like hell to have "oleo" sold "in the white".

They wanted it to look like lard, as only poor people ued lard, the hoi-poloi could afford butter. There was enough hullabaloo raised that they were forced to put in a capsule of yellow dye, which your granddma had to knead into the glop to make it look like butter,although it did no, and does not taste "just like butter",I on't give a damn if they do brag/lie "I can't believe it's not butter""

Also, the reason for margarine was so we could send butter to the troops, just as civilians have always me, the dairy industry wanted it to be colored blue.

And,you are not paying 2 buckss a pound for hyddrogenated oil, today. You are paying 2 bucks a pound for 48 % oil, 52 % water emulsion.

This disk thing is going overboard

You're going to split a disk, stick "duck" tape to a microns thick layer of deposited "dye" (ink), lift the dye layer off, tranfer it to another split disk, and see if it plays?

35 billion "bumps" on the pressed disk, and you are going to overlay the dye layer over the bumps? And then get the thing covered with another layer of polycarb and play it? let alone peel it off the "duck" tape.

Dream on, pal.

[FOO]

No , the blue dye/glue just covers up the recording which is on
a stamped aluminium layer..
just getting it off should allow the thing to play

[BigGoof]

I too have been following this discussion with some interest. From what FOO describes, it sounds like a dye or pigment is placed in the glue layer in the leuco form. Leuco forms of dyes/pigments are a different color than the dye (sometimes colorless) which oxidize readily to the dye. Once oxygen gets into the glue layer, the dye is formed which absorbs strongly in the wavelength of the laser (blue) so that the receiver sees no light reflected at all. So the process is simple. Stamp the DVD, coat it with the glue formulated with the leuco dye (which would be made up in an inert atmosphere) and probably coated under nitrogen, slap the red polycarbonate layer on there and seal it up. Voila! You have an EZ-D disk. Polycarbonate is fairly oxygen permeable but my guess is that GE made a copolymer with a polyester to increase oxygen permeability to get the timing right.

Technically, it is a clever concept but economically it is a dumb idea. It says to me that Disney/Buena Vista think everyone is too stupid to realize how screwy their marketing model is.

Just my $0.02.

[mkelley]

More news on the thread today:

Consumers Not Disposed To Disposables
Disposable DVDs are not moving off store shelves in markets where they're being tested, according to Wired News. Disney's Buena Vista Home Entertainment is conducting the tests in Illinois, Texas, South Carolina and Kansas, mostly in grocery and convenience stores. One Peoria store manager told the magazine: "They haven't sold very well yet. We've got them up front in a prime location right by the check-out lanes." But today's (Thursday) online edition of The Motley Fool observed that the six movies currently available in the test markets -- they are rendered unreadable 48 hours after they are removed from their packaging -- may be unappealing, since they were originally released as conventional DVDs earlier in the year and are no longer in demand at video rental outlets either. Also, there's the matter of price. As The Motley Fool observed, "Why pay $6.95 for a two-day disposable when rentals are $4 or less?

(This from IMDB.com, where they also have an interesting article about the success of Netflix. Coincidence? I think not.)

[tomoki]

Sounds like EZ-DVD is already on fast track to failure. I had hoped it would fail in much less than the 9 months it took Circuit City to realize their mistake.

I don't live near any test market (Illinois is about 400 miles away) and beside none of the EZ-DVD out now has my interest.

[solarfox]

Also, there's the matter of price. As The Motley Fool observed, "Why pay $6.95 for a two-day disposable when rentals are $4 or less?

Exactly.

Now if they were pricing these things at 99 cents... or heck, even $1.50... with a broader range of titles, they might have something that people would buy. (Though I still disapprove of the concept just on waste grounds; you know most people aren't going to bother returning them to be recycled, but will just toss 'em in the trash.) But considering that rentals are not only typically $4 or less, but that many rental places now let you keep them for five days for that price if it's not a new-release title (and sometimes even then), $6.95 for two days makes even less economic sense.

[impmon2]

Even if I were in test market, I still wouldn't buy it.

#1: my neighbor video shop has nearly 1,000 DVD movies and it's 99 cents for 2 night. Great selection, 1/7th the price, and I can watch it as often as I wanted to if I choose to rent it longer. With EZ-DVD, I'd have to have free time to watch the whole thing or it5'd expire before I see the ending.

#2: a few people in alt.video.dvd newsgroup have reported problem with some DVD players not playing it at all (maybe red dye is too dark?)

#3: enviromental issue. Unless they included a postage paid mail in envelope for returning discs to be recycled, I am not going to deal with it. Why spend $7 and then spend another 50 cents just to get rid of it enviromentally?!?

At least with Divx, you could still watch the movies several times.