converting video formats (For Hasbro's VideoNow) I know the

[Vampyre]

First I gotta say Greg, you rock! Thanks man for such a great app.

I tried cutting a regular CD down to size too. But the top flakes off like
confettie. Maybe its my cheep CD-Rs. I tried a hacksaw, a hobby knife,
and finally scissors. I had the best luck with scissors strangly enough
but still.. if anyone knows of a way to cut them with minimal flaking I'd
like to hear about it. Maybe sanding them?

I too have had problems with the EOF error. setting the audio rate to 44000 seems to help but still on some vids it stops just shy of the end
while writing the wave file. I noticed this only happens with videos i
edit(cut parts out of).. so what i do, is edit the video first, and then
save it as divx or something.. then, i load it with virtualdub again.
Then convert it to the b&w and change audio and all that. seems to fix the
problem. its as if the audio loses sync in vdub after you cut up the video
if you save as the old format AVI for some reason. I'm using version
1.5.3 . i need to get the new one

Also, has anyone tried to put a backlight or LED sidelights in these things?

[mastersmurfie]

OH MY GOSH!!! Have we actually had to resort to sawing discs to make them work with this thing???? (it almost seems like it would be easier to take the "innards" from the VideoNow player, and put em in a different casing...just a thought...wish i'd bought two...then i'd have one to work with...)

I actually believe that I will try this tomorrow...my father has a stationary scroll saw that has some mighty fine blades...if it works for me as well as it has for Luther, then all is good to go!!!

[impmon2]

Cutting CD-R has proven to be a problem for me. Several that I've cut up (unrelated to VideoNow) all fell apart with label peeling off easily. HP brand proved to be a nightmare when I tried reading the CD-R after it was cut, the whole label came right off!

I do have a burner that supported DAO so if someone can explain clearly I could burn a bootable CD.

@lighting up LCD: that is doable. There is some space between the LCD itself and the window. I found a place that sells edgelight that might work: https://www.netdisty.net/ds/rab362/default.asp (I don't work for them) Or one could get rid of the reflective backing and make it a backlight. Backlight would be a permanet backlight only since without the reflective film, the display would be very dark while the side light can be turn off while under bright light to conserve battery.

I'm going to see if I can get a sample but I'd probably need 4 to start with (2 may be enough, maybe not)

[luther]

impmon2,

My further attempts to cut the Memorex CDRs that I have also prove to be a mess to say the least. Any attempt to cut and the label will peel right off.

According to Pootle, you need to manipulate the VTOC and make it believe the disc is at least 29 minutes. He used CloneCD. When I burn a VideoThen CD that is over 29 minutes it boots everytime, but you have to cut the CD and so far that does not seem to be a good alternative. A better alternative would be to "spoof" the 24 min CDs. When I try to write 29 min to a 24 min CD with CDRWIN I get this message Error "Start DAO Recording Failed"

Luther

[impmon2]

Well, earlier in this thread someone was able to make a bootable CD and I was under the impression he used a plain vanilla 24 min CD-R.

Using a larger 5" CD-R will work but it won't fit the player unless you take the player apart. This is probably how Hasbro intended when they made sure the player used non standard 3.5" CD and kept the player's tray small enough that 5" won't fit.

Oh well, until a way is made we'd still have to stick with disc swap. As for the link I posted about Edge Light, forget that one. Their light required 6v (it has 2 LED in series) and VideoNow only has 3v. I'd probably end up getting a few SMD LEDs.

[NightWing]

Was wondering if any one has "modify" a ISO immage to "correct" for non complients?

Also would the light add on { the good internal one } that can added to a Game Boy Advantage work?

[Vampyre]

As for the backlight , i've been working on that. I peeled the reflective lable off of the back of the lcd. Turns out , that reflective label is more than just reflective. its polarized. so, to make the screen visable again, i had to add a peice of polarizing film. I got that off of an old LCD game. You can buy them from photography supply shops too, or if your desperate, cut up some polorizing sunglasses.

Then i put a single, bright white LED into the player , cut the plastic part under the lcd to make way for the light, put some white paper on the back of the LCD and it works perfectly. Well, almost. just one led, does give it
kind of a spot light effect. still its better than no light. an EL backlight would
be perfect, but those require extra circutry dont they?

As for a bootable disk, i've tried what i've read on here and each time i've failed miserably. my 'bootable' disks cause my player to give me funny graphics in teh corner for a few seconds, the it trys to boot again and the disk stops spinning. I dunno what i'm doing wrong. But then again, i'm not
all that bright.

[impmon2]

As for the backlight , i've been working on that. I peeled the reflective lable off of the back of the lcd. Turns out , that reflective label is more than just reflective. its polarized. so, to make the screen visable again, i had to add a peice of polarizing film. I got that off of an old LCD game. You can buy them from photography supply shops too, or if your desperate, cut up some polorizing sunglasses.

Those Tiger handheld games would work well and I often see them for under a couple dollars at garage sales and thrift shops. Keep in mind polarized filter works only one way, if you don't see any image, rotate the filter 90 degrees and that should work.

an EL backlight would be perfect, but those require extra circutry dont they?

Yes, they require an inverter just like CCFT (backlight bulbs used in laptops and color handheld systems excluding Gameboy SP). And EL film isn't quite as bright as LED or CCFT (ever see the light up watch?) which means it may not be good enough for an average user. On the bright side, they last a long time. (CCFT do burn out easily, LED also can burn out but after so many years)

As for a bootable disk, i've tried what i've read on here and each time i've failed miserably. my 'bootable' disks cause my player to give me funny graphics in teh corner for a few seconds, the it trys to boot again and the disk stops spinning. I dunno what i'm doing wrong. But then again, i'm not all that bright.

Welcome to Tgpo's dimbulb club.

Also would the light add on { the good internal one } that can added to a Game Boy Advantage work?

Not likely. I asked the folks at Triniton Labs long ago when looking to modify the Afterburner for Gameboy Color, they said the light guide would be very hard to cut.

You could try but for $30, I'd rather explore other cheaper alternative before hacking Afterburner. Hasbro do sells the external light for VideoNow but they aren't internal.

[NightWing]

It would be nice to see hasbro pop out with a new model next year or sooner with a internal light. The problem is as the group that produces the GBA one, back lights really only work for LCD that are designed that way. And side lights just dont do that well. Reflective are cheep but a pain.

Their designed is basically a wedge of special plastic with a light that bounces light down evenly across the screen.

For a 69-99 dollar hard to see screen game unless you are out in the sun the 30 dollars extra makes sense but for a 30 dollar unit, I agree, does not.

By the time you hit between 60 to 90 total it almost cheeper to go with a bargan basement DVD-LCD player.

I wonder if a small decoder with composit tv out could be engineered that would take their or home made disk and pump it out to a small cheep portable tv? Just a though.

[impmon2]

A video out would end up costing even more. Hasbro didn't use standard video on that little LCD display and to step up to 525 lines (480 viewable) and encode them at proper frequency. Even if we skipped the color signal entirely (after all, even color TV will display only in B&W when there are no color signal) I doubt this project can be done for under $25.

Once again, we're back to the bargain basement DVD player that offers better than 80x80 resolution.

A couple $2 white LED is still the best solution. For backlighting purpose, I could try using something to diffuse the light so there won't be a spotlight effect, like finely sanding the lens of the LED or using a piece of opaque sheet (like a milk carton) between the LED and the back of the display. Now I wonder why do we need white LED when red, yellow, and green is available for as little as $0.20 each (even less in large quanity) and being a mono display, the color of the LED won't affect the picture. How's that: a red display for the Target exclusive red player? I'd probbly go with yellow as it's brigther than other colors.

Unfortunately I broke my player. Seems the ribbon cable connecting the LCD to the mainboard is darned fragile and bending it a few times will kill it. :P Oh well, I can still find a new one for about $40 if I remember which store was having a sale. For now I've asked Santa to bring me one.

[bsteph2069]

Ohhh! I have to use clone DVD! No wonder my stuff didn't work when I tried to make a bootable disk. I thought ( erroniously ) that the trick was in the first three tracks from the bootable disk.

NERO does support DAO and that is how I write my mini cd's. The trick is to change the program settings for audio recording. HOWEVER I didn't alter the track listing to fool the video now. So it didn't work.

I too am getting a proablem with continuity of the disks I am creating. I think it's because my videos are actually short videos which I joined. Many of them cause the VIDEONOW PROGRAM for lockup. But the WAV file was writte so I used them anyway.

I'll see if I can cut a cd tonight. Thanks for the heads up about the tearing foil. BTW possible a method to make sure the foil does NOT tear is to take another item OVER the disk that is being cut. That typically solves the problem with wood.


Hasbvro is currently selling a light for the unit. In my area it is being sold for $10.00. However, I've decide that I can simply get a flashlight if I REALLY want to see in the dark. Has anyone considered a thin led with unadiquate power OR a led covered by semi opaque plastic?

Bsteph

[luther]

Well, earlier in this thread someone was able to make a bootable CD and I was under the impression he used a plain vanilla 24 min CD-R.

impmon2,

If you don't mind, please use CloneCD to record an image of one of your VideoThen Discs and post the .ccd file. I will try to modify it and maybe you can use the modified version to burn a disc since your burner uses DAO-RAW & SAO-RAW.

Thanks,

Luther

[Vampyre]

Sweet Monkey Nectar! Just made my first bootable disk, no
text editor needed.

I used a standard 700 meg CDR. I used burnatonce to burn my wavs to
the disk. I put track one from the key disk, my 24 minute video, and
track 13 all on the disk.

Then, i gently traced a 3.5 inch circle on the top of the disk with an exacto
hobby knife. Thats to seperate the foil on the part of the disk i was gonna
cut from the foil on the inner part of the disk.

Then i used scissors to cut triangles out of the outer edge
of the disk to make kind of a multi pointed star shape. then i
snipped off the triangles. (this pattern prevented the
disk from warping, which causes the foil to come off). I cut the disk
down a lil more with the scissors, and it worked perfectly. No flaking!
The disk plays beautifuly begenning to end, stops when its supposed
to, and most groovilicsiously, it boots every time.. Plus, the larger
disks are a lot cheeper for me. (22 cents versus 78 cents)

Another interesting point, is that I dind't have to edit any .ccd files
or anything. I just burned the wavs directly to the disk. (I guess since
i was burning 30 minutes of video .. with track 1 and 13 included it
worked fine)

Excelent suggestion about sanding the LED to diffuse it. im gonna try
that next.The backlight seems to be more trouble than its worth though.

Does anyone have any idea how the player knows where to skip to with
the previous/next buttons? is that info stored in track two maybe?

[GregSmith]

BTW: I gave the videonow to my daughter (age 12) for her birthday Nov 30. She loves it and has no problem swapping disks. The biggest problem: she is already bored with the 8 vncds i burned for her. Good thing i can just burn some more - imagine if i had to pay $5/disk.

[Dj Petro]

I have been following this thread and you guys have done great work in figureing this out.
There has been alot of trial and error so can someone recap the process to make a bootable mini CD to play in the VN Player?

_

[anoah]

Hi guys,

Cutting cdr's, now that's dedication!

I have written a small app to modify the .ccd file from cdrecord and I can put any length video (1 to 24 minutes) on a standard mini-cd and it boots and runs perfectly with a 100% boot rate.

Thanks to all who have contibuted to make this project possible!

[GregSmith]

anoah,

that's super! now, can you post your results here so we can all benefit from them?

greg

[bsteph2069]

Hi all,

Regarding the CCD app.

Do you have to modify the ccd file or can one modify it using a simple text editor?

This morning I used Vampires method or altering a normal CD. It worked fine in general. I used NERO 5.5.6.4 at DAO mode to create a 7 track CD. The first track was the video now leader ( Just for fun ). I could access all of the tracks except the last one ( I presume because I messed up a little when I cut the CD. With the scizors ( sp ) )

For those who want a simple method. Within the VideoNow1B file there is a DOC file which give explicit directions for creating a CD which is non bootable. The only difference to making the CD bootable in my experience is to ensure that one has at least 29 minutes or more of "audio" data and to cut the cd to fit the video now spindle. That is the simple method. The JAVA.EXE file can be downloaded from Sun microsystems website. Note: You WON'T t have to download the 88Meg developers file. All you should need is the 2.6 MEG install file. Also note: One MUST change the Audio to 8bit , MONO. EACH VideoDub session or else you will get strange hissing noises in the video. Nero can be made to create DAO audio disks by changing the FILE, COMPILATION INFO, BURN, WRITE FORMAT information.


Yup. As soon as I get home I gonna make a couple more disks.

Bsteph

Hi guys,

Cutting cdr's, now that's dedication!

I have written a small app to modify the .ccd file from cdrecord and I can put any length video (1 to 24 minutes) on a standard mini-cd and it boots and runs perfectly with a 100% boot rate.

Thanks to all who have contibuted to make this project possible!

[luther]

Regarding the CCD app.

Do you have to modify the ccd file or can one modify it using a simple text editor?

You can use a text editor. I simply used notepad, but my drive is not compatible with DAO or SAO.

Luther

[tomoki]

You can get the CCD file here: (3K) http://personalpages.tds.net/~wilykat/MR.ccd

Keep in mind most tray loading CD-ROM doesn't handle 3.5" CD at all and simply centering the disc by trial and nerror would take a lot of time not to mention a risk of ruined VN CD when the CD-ROM drive tries to load the disc off center.

Anyway I hacked my old ZipCD (external USB CD burner) so I could load the VNCD without too much trouble:

A recap: so far there isn't a foolproof way to make 3" CD-R bootable but it is possible. I've seen standard 5" CD-ROM that used a simple anti-copying by inserting a false file size that are >800MB so manipulating file size or lenth in time can be done.

Cutting a 5" CD-R is the only way but it's rather difficult as the CD-R data layer is on top and peels off easily.

[anoah]

Hi Guys,

This is a short tutorial on how to use my util along with VideoThen to make bootable VNCD's on a standard 24minute 210MB Mini-CDR. I have make 10 of these which boot 100% of the time except for 1 and it boots corectly about 95% of the time.

I also have a small Logo.wav file that I created (10 Seconds) that I put as the first track of every disc. The reason I do this is once the 1st track is played the Stop, Fwd, and Rev buttons work correctly. If you'll notice on a VideoNow cd the keys do not work until the first track is finished.

1. Use VirtualDub and VideoThen to create your WAV files.
2. Use BurnAtOnce to burn your WAV files to a Mini-CD-RW
3. Use CloneCD to copy the VNCD you just burnt back to your computer.
4. You need to a associate ccd2vncd.exe with .ccd files. Download ccd2vncd.zip at the link below and unzip it to a folder of you liking. If you do not have a program associated with .ccd files go to step 4b. If you do have a program associated go to step 4a.
4a. You'll need to remove the association for this to work. Open the folder with a .ccd file and right click on the .ccd file. Select OPEN WITH - CHOOSE PROGRAM. Select OTHER from the Open With window and browse to the folder where you unzipped ccd2vncd and select ccd2vncd.exe. Make sure Always use this program to open these files is checked and select ok. Goto step 5
4b. Double click on the .ccd file and the Open With window will appear. Select OTHER from the Open With window and browse to the folder where you unzipped ccd2vncd and select ccd2vncd.exe. Make sure Always us this program to open these files is checked and select ok. Goto step 5
5. You will see a DOS box appear for a moment and then disappear. (It may stay open on some systems, if so you may close it). If you look in the directory with your .ccd file you will see a .bak file, this is a backup of your original .ccd file. The .ccd file in the directory is now the modified .ccd file.
6. Open Clonecd and tell it you want to burn a disc. Select the .ccd file that was just modifed and write it to a Mini-CDR as a audio disc.
7. Pop the disc in your VideoNow and enjoy.

Download here
http://64.225.80.230/ccd2vncd.zip

enjoy,

Albert

[Dj Petro]

Will the latest version of VDub (1.5.10) work for this process, or will an earlier version be needed?

_

[Vampyre]

anoah,
Your app sounds really nice. But i couldn't get it to work.
I've associated it with .ccd files. but when i double click them
your app starts and says
Input run-time module path:

am i missing something?



Dj Petro,
I tried 1.5.10 and it didn't work for me. (I got the 10k wave files)
It would seem that version 1.5.7 or earlier are the only versions of vdub that work as of now.

[anoah]

Ooops,

Forgot to link the runtime library to it. If you'll re-download and unzip it, it should be fine.

Sorry about that!

Albert

[Vampyre]

anoah ,
Thanks! I downloaded the new executable, and it works perfectly! no more cutting disks for me.

I made a nifty 3d VideoThen 10 second logo for the bootup. If anyone wants it lemme know and i'll post it somewhere.

[Mr.Radar]

Hello, I am working on a set of tools to work with VNCD files. I've already got a working sound extraction program and a (partially) working frame extraction program. As soon as I finish the frame extraction program I'll post a link to both of them and the C source code(which is a mess but works). I eventually plan on making an alternative to VideoThen. A(n attempt at a) blog is at http://www.writersblockmedia.com/~radar/pvdtools/pvdtools.html

[bsteph2069]

Wow you people are ramping up fast!.

I am just getting my methods togeather to making "cut" 5 inch diskets to use in the video then.

It occured to me that I can avoid some of the foil lifting. ( Although there is not much if one cuts the foil FIRST before cutting the disk ) By placing a CD label on the disk.

Bsteph

[GregSmith]

Mr. Radar Says:

VideoThen sucks no source, JAVA, ultra-sensetive to AVI byte order, many times dies without errors given

um...

sucks - is a bit extreme since mine works, and yours doesnt

no source - not true, it's delivered in the .jar file

java - is as good a language as C and works on all platforms without source code changes.

etc - if you follow the directions it works perfectly well

I don't mind that you want to create your own converter, but you should really try to understand my work before you criticize it. I have already documented the file format in the .doc file - which you apparently haven't read.

but aside from all that, i do wish you luck with your project. i suggest you integrate the virtualdub and burner features into your code, so that people dont have so many steps to perform.

greg

[Mr.Radar]

I was a bit harsh(sorry)[franticly edits page]. I've never programmed java(C is (pun intented) my cup of java) and was not aware that .jar files were openable/browsable and therefore didn't see any code. C source code is generally distriubted seperatly in a .tar.gz/.tar.bz2 file. I also find JAVA pretty slow(esp. the gui) though the actuall conversion process with VT(after I got it work) went pretty quickly (for the 7-second clip I'm working on). I'll have to look at your code.

[GregSmith]

Apology accepted

Yes, you can open the .jar file with WinRar - I think even WinZip will open a .jar file. Failing that, you have the 'jar' program as part of the Java Runtime Environment (JRE) that you downloaded to run VideoThen.

jar -xvf VideoThen.jar

I think friendly competition is a good thing. And I'm willing to assist (I am an experienced C programmer too) if you need it. You'll find Java source code is very similar to C (java actually inherits its syntax from C++ which in turn inherits from C).

cheers

EDIT:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=735401#735401

The above thread has been created for us DigitHeads to discuss the intricate details of VideoNow file conversions. Let's leave this thread for users of VideoThen and PVDTools