Mainconcept Encoder How does it compare

[Michelle]

if you accept default settings most of the time your program will looked "washed out" a bit on a pc as it will clamp the video to IRE7.5 , make sure you check off what you need (this is covered in the manual) ..

I've read the manual several times but it often assumes you know what the settings are for. Where can I learn more about the settings?

[energy80s]

Up until now I have always used TMPG for MPEG 2 encoding. I don't believe that CCE is of much use without ancillary programmes (like AVIsynth) as doesn't offer the configuration possibilities that TMPG offers. I also use CQ coding as this offers the best quality with TMPG.

However, I have now gotten a copy of Mainconcept 1.4.0 as everyone seems to rave about it and the speed is near realtime on fast PCs. To get similar encodes to TMPG in CQ mode at 8000 max 4000 min CQ85, what should I set the Mainconcept encoders settings at (for both DV source and DVD source material)? Just some figures to get me started. Also is it possible to "hard matte" material in MC as with TMPG? I know that MC will crop, but I would like the opportunity to hard matte some sources too.

[sammie]

I tried the DV low and high bit-rate matricies posted by bj_m. Wow, that did it. The other suggestions bj_m made are good too (but I was already using them :P ) . Re-did the test clips and showed my test hostages, errr audience again. The test audience was a bit closer this time 70:30 MainConcept over CCE. I would say I picked it as better for about 60% of the scenes.

@zanos - The features are there, in fact there are probably better, certainly more tweaks available in MainConcept. They are mostly listed under the advanced settings. I don't have the program or manual here, but look for the box under advanced settings which has an ouline of various parameters, start clicking and read the manual you can control everything. The settings are not as user friencly as TMPEGEnc, that's for sure but they are definitely there.

[Michelle]

Does the Vegas Video version use matrices? I can't find it.

[BJ_M]

Does the Vegas Video version use matrices? I can't find it.

no -- it doesnt , it uses the standard mpeg one ..

[BJ_M]

if you accept default settings most of the time your program will looked "washed out" a bit on a pc as it will clamp the video to IRE7.5 , make sure you check off what you need (this is covered in the manual) ..

I've read the manual several times but it often assumes you know what the settings are for. Where can I learn more about the settings?

there is an advanced setting manual on the main concept web site which has more info ..
though some of the settings are not explained much ...

[Michelle]

Does the Vegas Video version use matrices? I can't find it.

no -- it doesnt , it uses the standard mpeg one ..

Do you mainly use the standalone encoder or do you also use it in VV?

[BJ_M]

mostly the stand alone - though I do use the built in one also depending on my project and source material ..

you can frame serve out of vegas to the stand alone - though if 2 pass and if there are lot of things going in vegas , its faster to encode to a avi file first (huffyuv for example) - though in my line of work i would often encode to a targa file seq. for proccessing in another app first .. depends what is happening that day ..

[Roderz]

OMG !
just tried this encoder and I could not believe the speed of it over tmpgenc - and results were spot on.

not as user friencly as TMPEGEnc

your avin a laugh - the very first time I ran TMPGEnc I sh*t my self looking at all them settings - but stuck with it.
Now I have to start all over again

[ZenZen]

Hi BJ_M and Sammie

I have tried to enter BJ_M's matrix into MC 1.4.
Clicking on the Advanced Video Settings I tick the User Quant Matrices and click on the Edit button. I begin typing in BJ_M's matrix, but as soon as I press the Tab key to move to the next box, the previous box resets itself to the default values.

[bjk633]

BJ_M
Can you go into MC 1.4 change the matrices and save as a template, then go into VV swap dll's and 001-004 files and use all the functionality of the template in VV so there is no need to serve from timeline?

[BJ_M]

Hi BJ_M and Sammie

I have tried to enter BJ_M's matrix into MC 1.4.
Clicking on the Advanced Video Settings I tick the User Quant Matrices and click on the Edit button. I begin typing in BJ_M's matrix, but as soon as I press the Tab key to move to the next box, the previous box resets itself to the default values. :?:

yea - i had that problem also (can you say bug) , i had to enter the numbers starting in a special order to get around it and i thought nuts to that and just edited the template files directly in notepad ... you can do all the settings changes there.

[BJ_M]

BJ_M
Can you go into MC 1.4 change the matrices and save as a template, then go into VV swap dll's and 001-004 files and use all the functionality of the template in VV so there is no need to serve from timeline?

nope -- the templates are different ..

[Michelle]

Has anyone tried this encoder for re-encoding movies? I guess all the steps involved would be a lot a work without a front end like DVD2DVD.

[Michelle]

Hi BJ_M and Sammie

I have tried to enter BJ_M's matrix into MC 1.4.
Clicking on the Advanced Video Settings I tick the User Quant Matrices and click on the Edit button. I begin typing in BJ_M's matrix, but as soon as I press the Tab key to move to the next box, the previous box resets itself to the default values.

yea - i had that problem also (can you say bug) , i had to enter the numbers starting in a special order to get around it and i thought nuts to that and just edited the template files directly in notepad ... you can do all the settings changes there.

Is it possible for someone to host templates on their web site? That would make it easy for others to cut and paste the matrices.

[BJ_M]

Has anyone tried this encoder for re-encoding movies? I guess all the steps involved would be a lot a work without a front end like DVD2DVD.

why ? it would be the same as any other encoder ...

[Michelle]

Has anyone tried this encoder for re-encoding movies? I guess all the steps involved would be a lot a work without a front end like DVD2DVD.

why ? it would be the same as any other encoder ...

I was just thinking that there are several front ends for CCE, TMPEGEnc and Procoder but not for MainConcept. Without a front end it seems like it would be quite involved and time-consuming to use MainConcept for re-encoding DVD. So I'm wondering if anyone is actually using it for that purpose.

[BJ_M]

you can use the same tools .. MC will directly import avsynth and v-dub files ..

if you mean something like dvd2svcd ... you would have a problem

[jtommyj]

Hi BJ_M and Sammie

I have tried to enter BJ_M's matrix into MC 1.4.
Clicking on the Advanced Video Settings I tick the User Quant Matrices and click on the Edit button. I begin typing in BJ_M's matrix, but as soon as I press the Tab key to move to the next box, the previous box resets itself to the default values.

yea - i had that problem also (can you say bug) , i had to enter the numbers starting in a special order to get around it and i thought nuts to that and just edited the template files directly in notepad ... you can do all the settings changes there.

Where are the templates located and under what file extension so I can edit with notepad ? TIA

[BJ_M]

on winxp they are in your /documents and settings/{user}/application data/main concept/


they will have a mmc file i extention i think (i dont have it installed on this computer) ...

you will have to create some user one first for one to appear (then modify it)..

dont modify the default ones found in the main folder ..

[jtommyj]

tX BJ_M
I just used your high bitrate example in TMPGENC (cause I know how to edit those ). It looks much better. What I am doing is taking VCD source Ntsc 352x240, frameserve w/ Vdub using de-interlace, resize to 720x480 w/ Lanczos3 and soften with 2Dcleaner filter.
What matrices do you think will work best and do you have any suggestions on my overall approach ? Got a dually here so time isn't a factor. I want the best quality (the new Xeon dual 3.06 machine won't be ready for about a month).

Thanks again for your help !!

[BJ_M]

not sure what works best on vcd to dvd .. i dont work with mpeg1 or vcd's


vcd is progressive source already .. are you sure you need to apply a de-interlacing filter to it ?

also -- if this going to shown on a tv .. you dont need to blow it up to a full 720 x 480 .. just to 90% of that size and add black borders (otherwise you are needlessly overblowing the image -- and getting poorer quality - the 10% of the edges are not seen on a tv anyway)

[jtommyj]

OK.. will try and see what happens.

Thanks :P

[ZenZen]

BJ_M wrote:
>>on winxp they are in your /documents and settings/{user}/application data/main concept/
>>they will have a mmc file i extention i think (i dont have it installed on this computer) ...

Well I'm running XP Professional, and although I have MC 1.4 installed in C:\programs files\Mainconcept I cannot locate the folder you describe above. Application Data folder just does not exist

I also did a search for any files with the extension mmc and again came up with a blank

Can you please make this a little clearer. If I cannot find the files to edit in Notepad, perhaps you can explain how to "enter the numbers starting in a order to get around it"

Is anyone else have this problem (unable to locate Application Data folders and files), or am I the only dummy

[BJ_M]

they are are all hidden folders/files on your system ... enable "show system and hidden files"


c:\\documents and settings\<your user name>\application data\main concept


on some systems they may also be in
c:\\documents and settings\<your user name>\local settings\application data\main concept


look for a .mef i think it is now ... i am on a different platform here (at home) and dont have windows installed..

[ZenZen]

OK I finally located the hidden templates with MEF extensions. On my system they are in ProgramFiles\MainConcept\MainConceptEncoder

BJ_M wrote:
>>"you will have to create some user one first for one to appear (then modify it)"
Not sure exactly what your saying here
Do I create a user one in Notepad What do you mean by "for one to appear"
>>dont modify the default ones found in the main folder ..
What happens if you do

Sorry for all the questions, but you've gone to a lot of effort to create and post your templates, so I'd like to use them

[ZenZen]

BJ_M
Sorry...But I finally got complete savvy on what you're saying
Create a Profile, then locate it under ApplicationData, and begin editing
My last question is this: The matrix templates that you have created (earlier in this post) Are they for NTSC or PAL, or does it not matter

[BJ_M]

they were done specifically for ntsc but should work fine for paL

in fact - im sure ive used the high bit rate dv one for some pal dvd's i did ..

[ZenZen]

OK Thanks for that and thanks for taking the time to answer my persistant questions. I got one final one
In your first matrix posted above, "Lower bit rate" as compared to the "Higher bit rate"...Are we taking about < 4000 bps here

I've created a profile for Max DV quality.
Search Method =12 Search Range = 12 2-pass Encoding.
Under Advanced....VBR 6000 (dependant on final file size required)
Noise Sensitiviy = 5 Motion Search = 12 Motion Search Pixel movement active 12 and 12. User Quant Matrices ticked and using your Higher bitrate matrix. (Do you have to have the User Quant Matrices boxed ticked all the time, or is this just to Edit, even though Edit does not work).

Any comments or advice on this greatly appreciated

[BJ_M]

OK Thanks for that and thanks for taking the time to answer my persistant questions. I got one final one :)
In your first matrix posted above, "Lower bit rate" as compared to the "Higher bit rate"...Are we taking about < 4000 bps here :?:

high = 6200-9000
low (in this case) = 4800-6200

I've created a profile for Max DV quality.
Search Method =12 Search Range = 12 2-pass Encoding.
Under Advanced....VBR 6000 (dependant on final file size required)
Noise Sensitiviy = 5 Motion Search = 12 Motion Search Pixel movement active 12 and 12. User Quant Matrices ticked and using your Higher bitrate matrix. (Do you have to have the User Quant Matrices boxed ticked all the time, or is this just to Edit, even though Edit does not work).

using the high in this case should be ok -- you are right at my edge where i make a cut off ... i think it should be fine - you could always try both .

you dont have to have checked off to use a custom matrix (when you open it to "edit it" - does it have your custom template show up after you have already in first step selected a custom template would be the thing to check (it should)) on reflection -- i always leave it checked anyway ..

don't forget to check the rgb 16-235 value which means it WILL NOT further clamp or change your color ..

check in the color box means no change ..

no check (default ) means it clamps it ..