Super 8mm to VCD, SVCD, or DVD?

[sjmaye]

The quality of the picture from my old Super 8mm movies looks pretty grainy. Would I really be gaining anything by authoring to DVD as opposed to VCD or SVCD?

[Tommyknocker]

Well, once you convert, you will lose quailty no matter which format you convert to. But here's the rub, to paraphrase the Bard: Once all is converted, the end product will be much better in DVD rather than the other two formats.

[sjmaye]

Well, once you convert, you will lose quailty no matter which format you convert to. But here's the rub, to paraphrase the Bard: Once all is converted, the end product will be much better in DVD rather than the other two formats.

Maybe I am confusing capturing with converting. So far as I have read the capturing phase normally works with AVI files which are subsequently editted and then burned to DVD.

So, when I capture the Super 8 movies to AVI I will be losing image quality? So I lose a little image quality no matter what, so I do the best job I can to capture the best images I can so that when I lose image quality during subsequent stages the end result will still be presentable.

I think your key statement is that regardless, if I want the end result to look as good as possible I will want to burn to DVD.

[Tommyknocker]

Yes, that is what I am saying. How will you be capturing your Super8 to your computer? I am really interested for future references.

[sjmaye]

I planned on using the technique mentioned in several posts. I will project on to a matte photo paper with a DV camcorder along side the projector. I will send the video to the PC via firewire. The video will be captured in ULead MediaStudio.

[Tommyknocker]

I see. Then I would suggest taking your DV captures and converting them directly to DVD. I do not know if Media Studio can do it, but the Ulead program I use to convert my DV to DVD is Video Studio and I really am satisfied.

[sjmaye]

Then I would suggest taking your DV captures and converting them directly to DVD.

Not sure what you mean "directly". I wanted to do some editing and insert some transitions, add a menu, etc.

BTW- When I am trying to capture from a DV camcorder. Can I send the video live (like streaming) to the PC as the projector is playing? or do I have to record it first, then send the images to the PC for capture?

[Tommyknocker]

Yes, I know that I can on my low-end Sony DCR-TRV140. And go ahead and edit, etc. I only meant to do no more conversions before burning.

[sjmaye]

I only meant to do no more conversions before burning.

OK this will show how much a Newbie I am! What do you mean no more "conversions"? Exactly what is a "conversion"? I thought it was simply the burning of a DVD.

[Tommyknocker]

It means changing from one format to another. E.g., AVI to MPEG-1, etc.

[sjmaye]

So, do you always start by capturing to AVI, do all your editing while in AVI format, then convert to MPEG? AtIf so, at what stage of the process do you do the converting??

Thanks!

[Tommyknocker]

Remember, DV is a form of AVI. Once I capture my DV (AVI) into Video Studio, I edit, add transitions, etc. Then I burn it to a DVD. The only time I convert it again is to add a closing scene that I scripted with AviSynth. And the scene is the only thing that reconvert.

[vhelp]

Hi sjmaye,

Tip #1:
I don't know weather this was mentioned (tipped) or not, but I would def.
recommend that when you do perform this Super8 ( S8 ) to DV (manual way)
that you:

* don't do it during daylight, w/ all that much light, and also,
* turn off all the lights, except maybe a small low lite lamp.. pref. w/ a dimmer
...control

You don't want over exposure of light source.

Tip #2:
If you CAM allows, set it to 60 fps (unless your S8 is diff speed) for as smoothest
of frames flowing.
Also, if you CAM has shutter adjustments, like mine does (TRV22) set it
up so that there is no Interlace. On my TRV22, I can shoot w/ no Interlace
and at 29.970 fps, (progressive, though not pure like Film) but because I move
around alot (the cam and myself) the video is not the greatest. I must learn
how to breath right, and move more fluidly
But, the reason I'm saying to set up yours as such, is because you won't be moving
your CAM. It will be sitting on a tripod. (get one of those $7 mini, about 6" high)

I don't know much about S8's but hopefully, the fps is 30 fps, and not something
very weird like 15 fps or something. If it's 30 fps, you that much closer to
your final goal (end product)
Do give us some more details about your S8 cam and the DV cam you will be using,
as well as the software (SW) and the devices/attachments you'll be using.. and
your lighting conditions/setups, and sound, if any, etc etc.

Note, also that all DV cams shoot footage at 30 fps (29.970) and are Interlaced.
On some, like my TRV22, it can be adjusted to 30 fps progressive, but noting the
degree of issues I mentioned. For still, non-moving of the cam, I can't see
not taking advantage of this undocumented/hidden feature of the TRV22 !! If you
have it, that is
However, if you don't already have a DV cam, you could get one w/ Progressive
shooting, if you are going to rent one.. that's my recommend for sure.

Its unfortunate, that you are starting out in video editing and stuff, w/ a higher
techniquel degree project. If you only had the video capturing and encoding
down first, things would be a lot of understanding.

I just noticed that you did not mention your DV brand/model, or if you even have
one. That just complicates things even more so, cause you probably don't have
any DV CAM'ing experience, which makes our helping even more difficult.

Well, good luck anyways..
-vhelp

[sjmaye]

I don't know much about S8's but hopefully, the fps is 30 fps, and not something
very weird like 15 fps or something. If it's 30 fps, you that much closer to
your final goal (end product)
Do give us some more details about your S8 cam and the DV cam you will be using,
as well as the software (SW) and the devices/attachments you'll be using.. and
your lighting conditions/setups, and sound, if any, etc etc.-vhelp

I plan on using my Super 8mm Argus projector (these movies have no sound). project the image on white matte epson paper with the DV camcorder ( I will borrow) alongside. I plan to capture and edit the video with Ulead MediaStudio (add background music and sounds) and author with DVD Workshop. I am currently waiting on a firewire PCI card for this part.

I just noticed that you did not mention your DV brand/model, or if you even have
one. That just complicates things even more so, cause you probably don't have
any DV CAM'ing experience, which makes our helping even more difficult.

Well, good luck anyways..

No, I don't have any DV camcorder experience. I guess I am a Newbie at that as well . Will that be difficult? I can borrow the camcorder at anytime, but I did not want to keep it too long. Can I expect a lot of time to get the hang of this?

[Tommyknocker]

If you have any capturing experience, it should not take too long to get the hang of it. DVIO is a bare-bone DV capturing utility. It has very few options, ergo very few ways to go astray.

[sjmaye]

Thanks Tommyknocker, but I don't think you understand how much a newbie I am! Everytime I think I have all the stuff to do this project I find more is needed!

I thought I could capture directly from the DV camcorder to the PC using MediaStudio. Do you mean I need DVIO for this? Or do you mean this would be easier to capture and do it right for someone with no experience?

[Tommyknocker]

I am saying DVIO is this easy:



What could you mess up?

[sjmaye]

Wow! Now I could be braindead and still get it right! It is that easy, huh. So I can then just pull up the captured video in mediaStudio and edit?

Also another question- Can I stream the video directly to the PC or do i need to record it, then send it from the recorder to the PC?

Got go to work. I will check if you reply when I get back tonight. Where are you located?

[vhelp]

Hi guys.

What could you mess up?

You could click on the X button as the start button, but close it down
every time "..how come it doesn't work?" hehe..



DVIO...
* One thing to note w/ DVIO ... should you decide to use this simple gizmo..
right-click the Caption bar and make sure you select the \AVI format..\Type-2
* Windows 98: Is limited to 4gigs per file, on a single capture
* W2K/XP w/ NTFS: Has NO limitation to filesize except your HD's

Filenaming...
I like using indexing because I always have plenty of clips and lots of test
scenarios that I like to compare, and if I just use a simple name, I won't
know what setting I used.

You might want to try some filename samples like the ones below, but use
what works for your given projects and things:

* park.swimming.001.avi
.
* park.bikers.001.avi
* park.bikers.002.avi
* park.bikers.003.avi
.
* park.bkers.huffy.001.avi
* park.bkers.mjpeg.001.avi
* park.bkers.DV.001.avi
.
* S8-DV-camping.001.avi
* S8-DV-wedding.002.avi
* S8-DV-babywalk.003.avi
* S8-DV-oldbulding.004.avi

FWIW, I use nothing but DVIO, cause that's all I need, w/out the bells and
whistles of those other (HUGE) apps (except synalizer)

Consider the above in your newly found endeavors,
and good luck

-vhelp

[sjmaye]

Thanks vhelp! I just received the last of my computer components and I am eager to get started. I know I will be referencing this topic.

These forums never cease to amaze me! I am involved in a lot of different hobbies that require talking with others to get to know what you are doing. From auto repair, programming IR remote controls, woodworking, bargain hunting and more.... There are always a bunch of helpful people that know the subject far, far better than you do.

Thanks for all the help everyone.

[Nolonemo]

My experience with do it yourself 8mm (not super 8 ) transfer to DV was quite disappointing. I used the method you are planning to use. I couldn't get rid of flicker no matter how I fiddled with the projection speed, and was generally dissatsified. I've sent all the film off to a place that severa people on the SF Vegas forum recommended, http://members.aol.com/filmtotape/index.htm. They say they clean the film before transfer, which is an added plus. At $85 per hour of film, it will be well worth it (I hope).

But since you have the projector, you might as well give it a try. Here are a lot of tips:

http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/filmtrans.html

Good luck!

[sjmaye]

Well I now have everything I need to get started. I can't make up any more excuses to myself not to dive in head first!

Could someone tell me the answer to just a couple more questions?

- Flicker- I see a lot of posts about flicker in the captured video. Most successful transfers involve speeding up the projector slightly and using a high shutter speed on the camcorder. I am a bit confused at how these 2 are related. I have heard that the 18 fps that Super 8mm uses is the slowest you can go with noticeable flicker. I can see why speeding it up playback would help. What is using a high shutterspeed going to do? Now, the hard part. My projector does not have variable speed. Am I up a creek?

- Capturing- I have read one post stating to simply leave the camcorder running while changing real. This would have one l...o...n...g video clip stored. Other than simplifying the recording of the 8mm film, is there an advantage to this while editing?

- Real newbie capture question- Can you stream the recorded image direct from the camcorder to the PC or do you have to record the video first and then put the camcorder in playback mode to send it to the PC?

-Clips- I am working with MediaStudio. The "clips" I am working with. Do I break up the original full-lenght transferred video in to clips during the capturing process? Or is this done in the video editing? Looks like the video editor just works with the short clips of the original.

Editing- While previewing the film I noticed what looks like trash on the tops and bottoms of each frame. Don't know if it is film degradation or simply trash that was on the lens while my Dad was shooting. Is there any way I can touch up this stuff without going frame by frame with something like PhotoPaint?