stealing

[jeex]

is download a copyrighted movie off the internet without paying anything legal? such as, "memento"..

how about renting a dvd from blockbuster and copying it to your computer?

how about borrowing a movie from a friend and making a copy?

or stealing something from the store?

or buying something, exchanging the item for something you know they could not tell the difference of, and is worth much less than the item you bought, taking it back & getting your money for it?

stealing a car?

intentionally writing a bad check?

if you worked at a fast food place, eating a hamburger you didnt pay for?

taking something out of your brothers car and making him think he lost it, but then selling it back to him a couple of months later and making him think that you found it really cheap at a pawn shop?

not paying for cable?

"milking" the time clock, by hanging out at the end of the day at work and not really working, and clocking in as soon as you show up at work and "getting ready for work" by having a smoke and a drink (non alcoholic)?

[pacmania_2001]

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if you worked at a fast food place, eating a hamburger you didnt pay for?

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My friend did that when he worked at McDonald's and the manager of the store caught him. Not only did he get fired but the owner threatened to take him to court over it.

[thxkid]

yes and I am sure you have done far more worse than this.
plus Napster, WinMX or KaZaa or copying music, DVD onto a VCD or tape if you did not pay for it and not using it for a backup ONLY.
But you may copy anything over the air waves legally, Betamax case proved that years ago in court. As long as you use it for your own personal use and don't sell copies.
I buy all my DVD's, I use VCD and SVCD to edit and record either family videos or music video's from Dishnet(also Legal).

[TwistedPair]

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On 2001-10-03 09:03:15, thxkid wrote:
...
But you may copy anything over the air waves legally, Betamax case proved that years ago in court. As long as you use it for your own personal use and don't sell copies.
...
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So what do you think - can you record a TV show and then post it to the newsgroups or put it on an ftp site?

[TIbrO]

I think you should be able to post the show freely on an FTP site. Like, the third episode of Enterprise airs tonight on UPN in the USA. skittelsen is authoring the show into VCD 2.0 format, and says he will distribute it to overseas fans. As long as you don't make profit off of it, it's all fair and square. I mean, TV Shows are out there being aired so that people can watch them, right? So why should they take legal action on an FTP site that merely hosts episodes of a series on its drives. People can still see the show, and no one is profiting from it. If anyone does profit, it has to be the studios in the end because more people tune in to the show now.

[TheInformer]

__Quote___________________________________________ _______

...Like, the third episode of Enterprise airs tonight on UPN in the USA. skittelsen is authoring the show into VCD 2.0 format...
__________________________________________________ _______

We don't even get UPN in our area, so I haven't even seen one episode yet of Enterprise. I wonder if skittelsen is interested in swapping copies of the show for copies of other shows I have?

[Bullworth]

jeex, almost everyting you listed I've done.
I'm a bad, bad boy.
I'm a bad, dirty little boy.

[TIbrO]

TheInformer, I don't want to put words in his mouth, but he did say to me that he would send me the VCDs every week for about $30 a month. This would cover shipping mostly, and then CDR cost and cover cost. I told him it was a good offer, but I couldn't afford an extra $30 a month "bill" as of right now.

[mikewg]

Why do you think people make TV shows? Simply for your personal entertainment? Nope... people make TV shows so they can make money through advertisements. Advertisements... aka commercials. When you digitize a show and distribute it, people aren't as likely to watch it on the channel. I used to watch Southpark all the time, even the reruns. Now that I can download an episode, there's no reason for me to watch it on TV. Not as many viewers of a show = not as much money paid for the advertisements. And it's not a matter of keeping the commercials vs cutting them out of the show, it's a matter of watching the show on TV vs from a captured version. Something for you to think about...

[mikewg]

Additionally... a show might not want to be digitized so people can release a DVD later (ie Sex In The City, Simpsons, and all the others selling Season 1, etc). If someone's digitizing episodes and giving them out on FTP, that's the same as distributing something that is available on TV. They won't sell as many collections, etc. The show isn't yours to capture and distribute... it's like when you purchase a game. You purchase the rights to play the game, not the actual game itself.

[jeex]

thxkid,

i didnt say i did these things. i was just asking if they were stealing.

stop making wild accusations!! hehe

[nfl2k2]

I steal burgers from works sometimes when I forget my money. My boss treats me like crap and overcharges food so that's how I get him back

[locco]

I like stealing...especially gas...everything on this earth should be everyone's...people just claim what they dont own....

[locco]

Although I do belive in stealing natural goods that were put on this earth for every human being...I dont particularly like the idea of stealing services, ex..The guys tip that pumped my gas....that is just wrong...

[rbruner2]

The law is not in place for those who think they agree with it. I mean, I can tell a police officer all I want that I don't think it is right that there is a stop sign there...but that doesn't change the fact that it is illegal to not stop.

Likewise, stealing copyrighted material is not okay just because you don't think it is right that you don't have access to it yourself directly, or it is too expensive, etc.

Copying a show to VCD and then giving it to someone else so that they can watch it IS illegal and wrong. It doesn't matter that the person might not have access to that show for years later.

Shows are made not just for artistic value...but to make money. And, just because you can't get something NOW in a certain format doesn't mean it won't be available later. The Phantom Menace isn't on DVD right now...but that doesn't mean it is legal to copy it from another source. it means we have to wait for it to be released.

Copying a show for personal use is legal as long as it is only ever used by you directly. Even then, there are some caveats. Public display of such a recording is not legal after a certain time period. (For example, schools are not allowed to show a TV show recorded off television after so many days after the broadcast.)

I'm actually amazed at just how much illegal activity goes on here, or is talked about here. For example, why are people trying to rip DVDs to VCD to begin with? Just for the fun of it? Just to have another copy of the DVD? Probably not. My guess is that they are trying to make illegal copies (perhaps they rented the DVD, for example).

Just because it is easy to do doesn't make it right either.

[TIbrO]

Oh well.

[vanillabox]

when one talks about the legality of the actions that many of the people on this form do, one also has to keep in mind if they will actually face prosecution for those actions. lets face it, most of use at one time or another have copied something without paying for the licensing of that work, be it software, movies, music.... and have yet to spend a hour in jail becaus of those actions. it is when you start making money at it that the law will come for you, i mean how else are they going to get a piece of the action?

[rbruner2]

But you don't do what is right because you are afraid of getting prosecuted...you do what is right because it is, first and foremost, right...but secondly because otherwise you are harming others in ways you never see.

Stealing copyrighted material ultimately ends up costing SOMEONE something. In fact, it costs several people.

Take the example of copying a DVD. First of all, it hurts the movie producers for lost of royalties. Next, it hurts the DVD manufacturers for losts of profit. It then hurts the reseller who also makes a profit off of selling the DVD to begin with.

Of course, the response typically is that they have plenty of money. But, that lost of profit ultimately shows up in the cost of future products. And, even though the one person doing this probably doesn't make a huge difference in the total loss...the little "one persons" add up to lots of money in the end. That lost money means more expensive movies to consumers, or less quality movie productions, etc.

As a choir director, I understand music copyright issues and how they affect me and others. As a software engineer, I understand software copyright issues. Movies are just another similar situation. Using Napster never was legal in the way most people used it. It doesn't matter whether such a person ever risked getting caught.

And, the end doesn't justify the means. Some have said that illegal use of Napster actually helped increase record sales. Fine. But in those cases that actually led to purchase, they were not avoiding the purchase of music...but deciding to buy. (Even then, it was still illegal.)

[Frisco]

Of course, while illegal copying does cost many people, it also benefits many, like the manufacturers of CD-R's and CD-RW's, the manufacturers of CD Writers, manufacturers of labels, etc.

Of course, this in no way condones illegal copying.

[RaleighNC]

You can go round and round on this issue. Some people do and some people don't.

Just don't have the "better than thou" attitude. Relax, they're working on new encryptions for dvd, satellite and cable.

Then you'll get madd that you can't do video stuff.

Then someone will break the code and it will start all over again.

Round and Round....

[Bullworth]

If you read copyright agreements carefully you'll see that they state that copyrighted materials can be used as long as they are not for public display or monetary profit. While I would have to agree with one half that I don't see anything wrong with copying and distributing televised programs among your friends I do understand that show and movie producers are within their legal rights to seek prosecution of people distributing their work without their permission, and that brings me to another part of copyright law, which I'm sure alot of people are familiar with that says "This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed in any form."
I do admit that alot of people get hurt by copying media, but I for one do it because for me it is simply a hobby. That and the fact that right now I'm too broke to buy the DVDs I want. I want to purchase them anyways becuase I stil want the original to get all the extras.
I know I'd be upset if I created someting to make money off of and people copied it and gave it away, "just because we can" but I also see the other side of the story. New DVDs, at least around here it seems stay kinda high priced. Movies that have been out for years still cost about $25. I'll buy DVDs if they are reasonably priced, but alot of the stuff I want now is anime and at $30 just because they want to classify it as an import is not a price I'm willing to pay. So by the way, if anyone know a good place to get them for a reasonable proce let me know.

[vulgarwolf]

Is ir wrong to steal a loaf of bread to steal a starving family ???
what if that family doesnt like bread they prefer movies before they are released in australia??
is it wrong to steal movies from the net put em on vcd and sell for a price thats almost giving them away ??

i think theres something in that for all of us

footnote "Parts of tha quote were used from fat tony in the simposns when he stole a truckload of cigarettes going into springfield"

[jeex]

i love that episode of the simpsons. hehe

[vigilante]

I tell you what, any dang ol' episode of the Simpsons is good.

[d4n13l]

Yeah... remember the one where Homer gets illegal cable installed. hehe

[jeex]

hehe. yeah, that cable stealing episode was all about stealing and so was the one where bart shoplifted the video game, and the one where marge got caught stealing that liquor from apu.. hmm.. seems like only lisa & maggie havent stolen.. i love the simpsons... but its been getting a little too sarcastic and witty upon itself lately..

hm..i wonder if anyone has a complete library of simpsons episodes........... *hint hint, email me*

[Stansell]

Here is a question.

Several years ago I had cable TV installed by the cable company. I never got a bill and had cable until I moved out.

Would that be considered steeling? Or just a goof-up on their part. Does the fact that I knew that I was getting something for nothing make it steeling instead of a goof-up on their part?

Also, when I fast-forward though commercials on my Tivo can that be considered steeling. I'm gettin something (TV Show) with out paying the price (watching the ad).

I can see how distributing a show such as Enterprise could be considered steeling. Even if the commercials were left in the program, many wouldn't be relevant to the person watching oversees (local businesses and such). Then when a network overseas shows the show, that person may not want to see it since he has already seen the imported copy and thus, not support the local network advertisers.

[jeex]

well the one about the cable goof-up would probably be considered stealing. since you didnt pay for the service.. its sorta like saying.. "well i went to this house, and no one was living there, so i moved in and the landlord never noticed"..

the one about tivo, technicaly i dont think that is stealing. since all of the big tv stations would probably be sueing the bejesus out of them if it was..

[bigmicka]

actually if you went to the house, no one was living their and you moved in and the landlord didnt notice. If you lived there long enough you would in the end own the house, i think its about 9 years under this condition before you own it.

(from memory there was an elvis movie that had this as part of the story)