Applying letterbox

[Mikael]

Any tips on how I can apply letterbox to a 4:3 video file. What I mean is that I want to add the black top and bottom borders to the project without changing aspect ratio or anyting.

[bugster]

If it is an avi, then virtualdub can do this using the resize filter.

[Gees]

Even if it's mpg, you can still use Virtualdub by frameserving. Great guide right on this site: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/87270.php

[Mikael]

Thank you, but I've tried this filter, but I only got it to apply letterbox when I resized the picture. What I want to do is to cover the top and bottom of the picture on a non-resized 4:3 picture with letterboxing.

Maybe I did something wrong? I didn't really understand the settings for the filter.

[energy80s]

Use TMPG. Load your file, go to SETTING > ADVANCED and click on CLIP FRAME. Clip 85 pixels off the top and bottom of the image (for PAL assuming a 720x576 source) and put a tick in the TOP MASK and BOTTOM MASK boxes. This will hard matte a 4:3 image with proper 16:9 bars at the top and bottom of the picture. Make sure that you have the output aspect ratio set to 4:3 and the Video Arrange Method to Full Screen Keep Aspect Ratio, and that'll do it for ya!

[dun4cheap]

ArcSoft Show biz lets you do this, either in widescreen or letter box, your choice, its pretty cool. I think the abilities that Showbiz has are unique and hope they continue to support the product.

[Mikael]

Thank you energy80s! That's exactly what I was looking for. Say what you want about TMPG, but the functions aren't exactly intuitive.

[FulciLives]

Here is a thought ...

Using the method that energy80s described but instead of clicking on the MASK option actually CLIP (aka cut) the image ... this should result in the image being stretched (so everything looks too tall and "skinny") and encode at 16x9

Now you can make a "true" 16x9 DVD

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I know with NTSC (720x480) that cutting 60 off the top and bottom will make it 16x9 but I don't think that 85 is correct for PAL ... I have read that the correct number for PAL is 72

*** EDIT ***
For this to work you would need to use FULL SCREEN for the VIDEO ARRANGE METHOD ... not FULL SCREEN (KEEP ASPECT RATIO) ... of course this is from memory because it has been a while since I've done this

[energy80s]

No, for PAL it needs to be 85 (actually 85.5) top and bottom - 72 will result in a distorted image when played back on a DVD player if you are using your "crop for anamorphic" method (which I have done in the past) and are producing 16:9 DVD's.

And if you are going the "anamorphic" route, then make sure you select 16:9 as the output option in TMPG or you will just have a squeezed up 4:3 image!

[FulciLives]

No, for PAL it needs to be 85 (actually 85.5) top and bottom - 72 will result in a distorted image when played back on a DVD player if you are using your "crop for anamorphic" method (which I have done in the past) and are producing 16:9 DVD's.

And if you are going the "anamorphic" route, then make sure you select 16:9 as the output option in TMPG or you will just have a squeezed up 4:3 image!

I really think you need to rethink your math. I did some more poking around with this issue and 72 seems to be correct to me.

For instance ... I know the figure for NTSC is 60
Now if you subtract 60 from the top and bottom of 480 (since NTSC is 720x480) you get 720x360 and if you subtract 72 from the tom and bottom of 576 (since PAL is 720x576) you get 720x432

Now look at this:

NTSC --> 720x480 --> 720x360 --> 480/360 = 1.333
PAL --> 720x576 --> 720x432 --> 576/432 = 1.333

That's my math for proving that 72 for PAL is correct.

If you don't believe me ... take a 16x9 DVD that has an aspect ratio of exactly 16x9 or 1.777:1 (in other words when you view it full screen stretched the image stretches form the very top of picture to the very bottom with no black already encoded into the signal ... there would only be black already encoded in 16x9 encoded material if the aspect ratio is more than 1.777:1 such as a film that is 2.35:1)

Now load that source into TMPGEnc and select the PAL DVD template (not the 16x9 PAL DVD template). For the source aspect ratio select 16:9 625 Line (PAL)

Now for VIDEO ARRANGE METHOD select FULL SCREEN (KEEP ASPECT RATIO)

TMPGEnc will now resize the 16:9 input image into a widescreen 4:3 image.

Now if you encode a sample clip and then analyze that sample clip you will find that there are approximately 72 lines of black above and below the image. It's not exactly 72 but it's really really close (actually just a tad less) so it is nowhere near 85 or 85.5

Prove me wrong. I don't say that to be cocky. If I am wrong then I want to use the correct method. But I don't see how it could be 85 or 85.5

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
I've heard some people say you should use 77 instead of 72 if you want to be ITU compliant but I've tried both ways in NTSC (60 being normal and 64 being ITU compliant) and I always thought that the non ITU compliant looked better or more correct. It could be that this could "change" based on how the aspect ratio of the DVD was calculated. Again I bring up NTSC because I have more experience with NTSC than PAL but I'm positive that the correct figure for PAL is 72 (give or take) and that 85 or 85.5 is simply way too much thus making people look too short and fat.

[energy80s]

720 divided by 16 equals 45.

45 multiplied by 9 equals 405.

576 minus 405 equals 171.

171 divided by 2 equals 85.5.

Basically a 16:9 image in a 4:3 frame should be 720 by 405 (for a 720 by 576 source).

I didn't get a maths "O" Level for nothing you know!!

I have actually tried this with images of circles, and although they look OK on a PC monitor, they are distorted when played back on a DVD/TV setup if you use the 72 top and bottom figures. Even TV images that are letterboxed 4:3 need the 85 top and bottom crops to get rid of the black bars. Trust me on this.

[FulciLives]

Well ...

I think your math is flawed.

I say this because 720x576 is 4:3 or 1.33:1 for PAL but ...
720x480 is 4:3 or 1.33:1 for NTSC

Do you see what I mean?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

*** EDIT ***
In other words I don't think you are taking into account that in one instance 480 height=100% whereas in the other case 576 height=100% yet both have the same 720 width=100%

[energy80s]

But we are not talking about going from PAL to NTSC. The figures I gave are for PAL 720x576 only. They do actually work. Oh and for a true 4:3 picture it should be 768x576 and not 720 ... I think this is where you are getting confused ... and this is also the figure used in many capturing programmes.

[FulciLives]

But we are not talking about going from PAL to NTSC. The figures I gave are for PAL 720x576 only. They do actually work. Oh and for a true 4:3 picture it should be 768x576 and not 720 ... I think this is where you are getting confused ... and this is also the figure used in many capturing programmes.

Well I don't know what to say. I tried doing 85 off the top and bottom of a 4:3 widescreen PAL source re-encoding it with TMPGEnc using the 16x9 PAL template and it just doesn't look correct to me at all. The aspect ratio is clearly wrong in my eyes in the final MPEG file.

Also I have heard of capturing PAL at 768x576 but the DVD standard is 720x576 and any PAL capture done at 768x576 must be resized to 720x576 so ... again I think you are on the wrong path.

Sorry but I guess we just don't agree here on this issue.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[energy80s]

All I was saying is that you are assuming that 720x576 is a true 4:3 image, when it actually isn't. Therefore you can't apply simple maths to those figures and end up with an accurate result. At first I too thought that to arc a 4:3 capture to 16:9 meant cropping the top and bottom 72 lines, but after I tried this and burnt it to DVD it was still the wrong aspect ratio - it looked fine on a PC (as the pictures are always squashed there anyway), but on a TV screen it was wrong. It was only after doing a proper 16:9 conversion (as detailed above) that I was able to get car wheels that were actually round to appear on screen!!

Anyway this is getting away from the original nature of the post.