legality question

[vandakeg]

I have seen people selling their 'personal' collection of complete TV Show Series' on eBay. They have all been on DVD-R.

Is this even legal? It is obvious that they shows were taped from TV (b/c the complete series doesn't even exist on DVD yet.) How much different can the law be b/w capturing off TV vs. ripping a DVD?

[freestyler]

It's illegal. Report them to eBay if you feel so inclined - I have in the past.

For them to sell this crap on eBay is asinine and asking for trouble.

If you think that's bad, you should see their XXX section - bootleg dvd to vcd conversions GALORE.

Support the movie makers and buy original copies. You have discovered eBays dark side.

[Hardcoreruss]

What sort of shows are on there ?, I am not going to buy them I am just interested.

[adam]

Yeah its illegal, just hard for e-bay to keep tabs on since they can't reasonably be expected to check on whether each video being auctioned is out on VHS or DVD yet.

Your right to capture broadcasts comes from a right to "time shift." The logic is that you are paying for the hardware and possibly subscription to the broadcast so you have a right to watch it whenever you want if possible. So you can record it and watch it later, or you can watch it repeatedly if you like. But obviously under this logic you shouldn't be able to sell it to someone else.

[Hardcoreruss]

I have read that if a show you have recorded off tv is over twenty years old and is not comercially avaliable you can distribute it on a so called "fan basis", selling it to cover your costs bearing in mind that if it does ever come out you must cease reproducing it.

[flaninacupboard]

Interesting.....
The original version of star wars is over 20 years old, and is not commercially available, just the Special Eds.
Be a fun conversation with the police
"This DVD looks a bit good for a ten year old VHS tape. And i didn't even see the advert breaks."
"yeah, i'm that good at editing"
"but something confuses us. we found a copy of the definitive collection laser disc by your computer!!"
"Did you?!"

[housepig]

I have read that if a show you have recorded off tv is over twenty years old and is not comercially avaliable you can distribute it on a so called "fan basis", selling it to cover your costs bearing in mind that if it does ever come out you must cease reproducing it.

I doubt that's legal.

most of this falls into the same logic of running a red light - "if a cop didn't see it, I didn't do it".

in eBay's case, it's not going to get shut down unless someone reports it. case in point - I had some Lon Chaney movies that I found laserdiscs of, so I put my old vhs copies that I had bought at movie conventions on eBay. 3 of the 4 sold within 6 hours. The 4th was on for a couple of days, then it got removed from eBay at the request of Warner Brothers... it crossed their radar. The first 3 did not, because they were bought so fast.

as far as old tv shows, again, it's probable that the people who own the rights to it are not aware (or not too concerned) with the fact it's being traded.

But if the possibility of a dvd release becomes likely, the people who own the rights are going to start being more diligent about tracking down and stopping trading or selling.

Easy way to find out - find an episode of some major series that's not available on dvd yet (like a Twilight Zone or Star Trek or something) that hasn't come out on dvd. Put that up on eBay and see how fast it gets shut down...

[vandakeg]

This is all what I figured. Common sense told me it was illegal, but I was kind of hoping maybe it wasn't.

The actual item I came across on eBay was the complete series of 'Dawson's Creek'. I believe it was around 10 dvd-r's that the guy was selling... it ended for almost $200, which surprised me... and got me thinking. Even though all my instincts told me it was illegal and wrong, I was hoping maybe there was some crazy reason why it was OK to do. I have been capturing Seinfeld episodes every day (almost) for the past year from my dish, and almost have the complete series (sometimes it's on 2 or 3 times a day)... I have been putting them on DVD, and figured 'If this guy can sell Dawson's Creek for $200, just think what I could get for Seinfeld!"...

Oh well, I guess I'll just have to wait 20 years after it's out of syndication... when will that be? 2050?

[tgpo]

Like this

[vandakeg]

HA HA HA!! He has the balls to put a reserve on it??? wow!

[tgpo]

HA HA HA!! He has the balls to put a reserve on it??? wow!

Wonder what it is set at

[Hardcoreruss]

HA HA HA!! He has the balls to put a reserve on it??? wow!

Wonder what it is set at

Will be interesting to see how much it goes for

[0 kewl]

HA HA HA!! He has the balls to put a reserve on it??? wow!

Wonder what it is set at

$150 - reserve met!!!

At least YOU didn't have to tell us what you set it at .......... this allows for a benefit of doubt (just a tiny one :P )........j/k, mate





Spend that money well, tgpo!

[tgpo]

Of course I spend my money well. :P

Well the item is GONE! Serves em' right.

[vandakeg]

I sent the seller an e-mail, asking how it was legal... never got a response. Oh well.

[MOVIEGEEK]

housepig wrote:"Easy way to find out - find an episode of some major series that's not available on dvd yet (like a Twilight Zone or Star Trek or something) that hasn't come out on dvd. Put that up on eBay and see how fast it gets shut down..."
Twilight Zone is on DVD:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/listmania/list-browse/-/39PGUOGGZFQJ7/ref%3Dcm%5F...482622-1719361

http://www.buy.com/retail/searchresults.asp?search_store=4&querytype=video_dvd&format=...t+zone&loc=322

[housepig]

Moviegeek -

I know - when I wrote that post, I was trying to think of some comparable series which haven't been issued on dvd yet, and I couldn't think of one off the top of my head.

my point being, find a major series where people would be clamoring for it on dvd, or which has plans to be issued on dvd, or some but not all episodes are out on dvd, and post that to eBay. See how fast the people with a vested interest in those commercial dvd's shut down your auction.

no one might be on the lookout (or care, particularly) about some obscure tv show from 1975, so you could probably sell or trade it without being caught and sued.... for a while, anyway.

But the higher profile the product is, the faster you'd get shut down.

the upshot of all of this is, it's not legal, unless it's out of copyright... so anything before 1923 or so might be fair game, but not much from the last 20 years is going to slide by. doesn't matter if it's out of syndication, or if it belongs to a studio that no longer exists... it's still copyrighted, it's still protected, and still illegal to distribute.

[mysticgohan17]

... find a major series where people would be clamoring for it on dvd...

there are 3 movies that came out in 1977, 1980 and 1983. called the star wars trilogy. im clamoring for those on dvd. as far as TV shows go, the Spider-man and X-Men TAS from the mid-90s.

[gmatov]

Housepig,

Here's one for you.
I've got some DVDs from Front Row Entertainment, and Platinum Disks, copyright 1997 and there abouts that are at least 30 year old films, one is a Bronson, looks like he did when he was The Cameraman, circa 1965-70, another is a Gere, looks like a teen.
They're sold at the lacal KMart, WalMart, supermarket, 5 bucks a kick or less.

You think it possible they made a deal with the copyright holder to reproduce and distribute? The original doesn't wanna be bothered with low cost disks but will take a quarter or a buck per disk sold, be my guest?

[housepig]

I've got some DVDs from Front Row Entertainment, and Platinum Disks, copyright 1997 and there abouts that are at least 30 year old films...
You think it possible they made a deal with the copyright holder to reproduce and distribute? The original doesn't wanna be bothered with low cost disks but will take a quarter or a buck per disk sold, be my guest?

I think that's exactly what happens.

Who originally made the movies? (What company?)

I think most of those were probably made by small companies, or by small distributors, and they go bankrupt, sell assets, etc. so some of these may pass through the hands of 20 different companies, all trying to make a buck from 'em.

Another thing is that, just like when videotapes hit big in the early 80's, a lot of smaller distro deals gave away rights only to the film and tv distribution, and not for videotapes or laserdiscs - so lots of filmmakers found that they actually owned some rights, they hadn't given them all away, and they were free to sell the videotape rights to the highest bidder.

similar thing is going on now with the dvd boom - many people found that their contracts did not assign rights to "all future audio/video distribution formats" (like many contracts now have as a clause). So they find that somebody wants to release that dusty flick they made in 1968 on DVD, so it's cheaper all around - Front Row video doesn't have to deal with Warner Brothers, and pay through the nose, they might just license the movie from the original director for a few years for a few grand.

which is why you see the same Bronson movies, or that one Joe Pesci movie, etc.... everytime Joe Pesci makes a new movie, you'll see that one early film of his, reissued under a new company logo, on the $5 rack.

@mysticgohan -

call me dense (I am really, really tired right now) but I'm missing the point of your post? have you seen these for sale on eBay? I bet if you find it, and add it to your watch list, it'll come up as an invalid item before it's scheduled to end, because the studio will find it and shut it down...

[Will Hay]

The first series of the US show 'Scrubs' is always up on Ebay UK, and I've seen feedback given from the high bidder so they always seem to go through.
When I enquired on the quality once the seller made no bones about the fact that they'd been downloaded from Kazaa by his friend!!!!!!
Will

[indolikaa]

When I enquired on the quality once the seller made no bones about the fact that they'd been downloaded from Kazaa by his friend!!!!!!

[tgpo]

Sounds like the DJ at Manosteele's wedding. He told them to pick any song they wanted because he could get anything he wanted











from Kazza.