Life of DVD-R ?

[arminio]

I need to record some pretty important stuff on DVD-R but I am very skeptic about a life of these discs ... I have good experience with CD-R readability after some time but for DVD-R I heard lot of different things - from very bad to very good.
So, if anybody can recommend which media is the best or how long I can expect that DVD-R disc will be readable ?

Maybe this is silly question because deterioration with time is unpredictable thing but basically it is matter of experience - and I am new in this topic so I am asking for help from more experienced users ...

[MeTaLgEaRsOoTy]

dont know about the lifespan of a dvd-r,but i haev some that are over a year old,and they still work.
one thing i have noticed is that all dvds(originals and dvd-+r's,is that sometimes they seem to get a kinda "film" or skin over them,its not exactly dust,but seems like a milky layer,onece wiped they are fine,albeit maybe some fine scratches*god,i wish they would get something that actually cleans cds and dvds without scratching them*.
i use bulkpaq-orange-4x generation 4 dvd-rs,and datawrite red4x dvd-rs,and they work fine.
i suppose its just a matter of trying different brands,as even the more expensive brands like memorex,etc, dont work on some peoples systems.

[arminio]

It is sad that good old VHS has pretty bad quality comparing to digital video but it can lasts over 15 years without any problem.

I just watched one of my 15 old VHS tape and it is in excellent shape - but I am afraid that DVD-R I made wont' last longer that 2-3 years

Paranoia or truth ?

[Rogue3]

Alot of the main brands (tdk, pioneer etc) claim in their specs to be 100 year certified. I can't imagine they wouldn't last more than a few years if stored correctly (in a case in your house, not in your car or the like). I'm not really worried about them, I'd say they will last for many years. And, unlike VHS, they won't deteriorate every time you play them.

My 2 year old has also had his hands on a few of my LABELED dvd-r's and they still work just fine, finger prints, scratches and all.

[kc33]

I just watched one of my 15 old VHS tape and it is in excellent shape - but I am afraid that DVD-R I made wont' last longer that 2-3 years

For the important stuff, I usually made multiple copies using multiple brands of discs. If I can share the video, I would send discs to friends and relatives so I would have off site backups. If you have access to a comptuer with a DVD writer, you could also make copies your important dvd-r every 18 months or so to extend the life of the contents infinitely. The nice thing about digital media such as dvd-r is that the copies will not inherit any generation loss.

[thayne]

I have read Memorex DVD's are rated for 50 years and Ritek 100 years. I guess it depends on who makes them.

[piano632]

If you're worried about scratches making your discs unplayable - try the new TDK "armor plated" discs. Even Brillo pads and steel wool have a hard time penetrating these discs. They cost $5 each but probably worth it for something important. You can find them at jandr.com, rima.com, or circuitcity.com I hear that TDK is making these discs in-house like they used to with CD-R.

[handyguy]

"Alot of the main brands (tdk, pioneer etc) claim in their specs to be 100 year certified."

So they had those 100 years ago to test them out for 100 years?

Sony says VHS starts to turn to fuzzy around 15 years.

[Rogue3]

"Alot of the main brands (tdk, pioneer etc) claim in their specs to be 100 year certified."

So they had those 100 years ago to test them out for 100 years?

Sony says VHS starts to turn to fuzzy around 15 years.

Hey, just quoting what they claim, not claiming what they quoted. I imagine they did some kind of extrapolary testing to come up with that certification.

[arminio]

I searched a bit through Internet and found a lot contradictional information but basically, all testings for duration are made in perfect conditions on 23 degree Celsius (approx. room temperature) and normal humidity. But there are test in what we call normal environmanet like dust, smog, higher temperatures and everythng shows that some media wn't last more dthan few years and some even "die" after few months !


Now, second thing ... U found that some company made best DVD-R discs - it is called Taiyo Yuden. Anybody know are there brand or they just made media and sell to some brand name companies (like Sony etc.) and if they do, what companies they are ? On all tests, they was the best and they claim their media lasts from 70 to 100 years...

[piano632]

I strongly suspect that TDK and Fuji DVD media that says "made in Japan" on the packaging are probably Taiyo Yuden discs. You really have to shop around and read the packaging - usually right near the barcode it will say where the discs are made. If you buy by mail-order you never know what you're getting because companies like TDK, Fuji, Sony, Maxell, etc. have their discs made in various plants around the world (Taiwan, Singapore, Japan, Austria, etc.) - and the quality isn't equal between all these factories. Where they are made is more important than the brand name. The quality control in Japan is better than anywhere else, so if you can find Japan-made discs you can't go wrong with those. I would have also recommended Mitsui discs (they make excellent CD discs), but then I read something that suggested Mitsui DVDs have compatibility problems with many players (possibly because of the different dye type they use). Not sure if this is true or not - just what I read somewhere.

I have a hard time believing that the average DVD will "die" in a few months. They used to say similar things about CD-R, but none of my hundreds of CD-Rs have "died" yet. Just use good quality discs to begin with and you shouldn't have any problems. Stay away from Memorex, Imation, Princo - those were rated among the worst out there.

[Greenspock]

Chances are that your DVD-R will still be quite viable long after its obsolete. (Just don't go around scratching it or using it as a coaster ) At that time transfer to the newer medium.

[Xtasy2002]

There is this strange discussion on Slashdot here:

http://slashdot.org/articles/03/08/24/1253248.shtml?tid=126&tid=137&tid=198

That says many types of CD-R don't last longer than 2 years before they go bad. I can't really find a list of which ones did last and those that did not.

What this goes to show you is that it doesn't matter what a company tells you their DVD-R's are "Rated" for. They could say rated for 100 years but if they go bad in 1 year and all your data is lost there's still not much you can do about it.

I would really like someone to provide a link to some kind of scientific study highlighting the shelf life of DVD-R types. But I'm afraid at this point the evolution of the media it's too soon for anything like this.

[Greenspock]

Stay away from Memorex, Imation, Princo - those were rated among the worst out there.

Where were these rated at? Just want to know for my own purposes. Thx.

[arminio]

All in all - I se that there is no secure thing

These Taiyo Yuden sounds the best and the hardtest to find (especially for us in Europe). Other things is lottery.

Maybe best will be to record more copies on different media or use alzernate HD as backup ?

Sad...

[lordsmurf]

I use Maxell (or the Apple releases of MXL) when I'm concerned about media quality. I'm pretty happy with Ritek (orange) and Optodisc (golds) too.

I hear Princo dies, but never seen it. What I've seen is bad burns that I just didn't notice as being bad until way later. Don't think it "rotted" or anything, just I didn't pay attention to the integrity when it was burned.

[spectroelectro]

Rather than the brand, the critical issue seems to be the writing speed. A lotta folks are writing to 1x discs with hacked firmware that lets 'em write at 2x. This seems to produce discs that go bad verrrrry quickly.
I've been writing to 1x discs and 2x discs at 1x and have had zero probems using Riteks that go back nearly a year.
Other folks have reported discs going back in less than 8 months -- one person reported his Memorex discs dying in less than 3 months!
Rules of thumb seem to be:
[1] Avoid the el cheapo brands -- princo, optodisc
[2] Use the higher-end name brand discs if you can afford it -- TDK, Panasonic, Apple
[3] NEVER burn above the rated speed of the disc regardless of whether your firmware lets you.

[gmatov]

Terrible, ain't it?

I have Data CDs from a year or so ago I have used to indtall drivers, etc, on my kids machines.
After a while there began to be errors in some of the files. Some were still good, some were bad.
I don't know on my VCD-SVCDs yet, probably the same, after awhile..

The DVD burner, DVD media makers won't tell you they last"X" years, months, whatever. They want to sell their product. They sure as hell won't tell you the things could go bad in a couple months.
They all kinda hope the new systems come out while these things are still viable.
Blu-Ray, Organic, whatever, maybe a real holographic thing, 50 years down the road.
Or a "dilithium crystal".

Hey, all of our media have been obsoleted. They will continue to be. We'll just keep buying the stopgaps in the interim, transfer our old, soon to die, to the new, lasts forever. Sure we will.

[Greenspock]

My greatest concern about the current batch of DVD blank media is that they are in fact two 'disks' glued together. Its anyones guess how long that seal along the edge will hold out. Laser Disks (also two layed disks) saw 'rot' along its layer and those were professionaly pressed. I guess the moral of the story is to simply handle them with care.

[gmatov]

So, Mr. Spock,

How do you handle them with care? As a habit, I span the circumference of my disks with my spread fingers.

Good grief, what if it's the acid in the oils from our fingerprints that eats away at the laquer (which everyone tells me is the adhesive. )?

I mean, has anyone done a study that the more times you load and play, the quicker they go bad? If you just put it in the player and cycle it a thousand times, it lasts. You take it out, replace it, get more oil on the seam, play it 30 times and kaput?

Hmmmmm.

Cheers,

George

[Greenspock]

I span the circumference of my disks with my spread fingers.

Not everyone does.

[gmatov]

Greenspock,

Well, how do you hold them? Finger in the center hole, thumb on the edge? Same thing.

Eveyone here tells you to keep your oily fingers off the data surface.

The only other way I can see is to flip it out of the case onto your hand, upside down, and do a quick hand flip to slap it down onto the tray, possibly scratching it badly .

Any other ideas as to how to hold it?

Cheers,

George

[Greenspock]

Sigh... I didn't mean to imply any handling method of choice. I was trying to point out what I felt was the weakest part of blank DVD media... where it could fail first. If needed, I can remove the "handle with care" comment I made previously to clarify my post.

FYI... I hold my DVD's butter-side down.

[gmatov]

Man, I'm not critisizing you. Just that it IS possible the "adhesive" can't stand up to our acidy prints, and some people more than others.

And, how did you handle an LD, the same as you would an LP, one hand each edge of it? A solid piece of vinyl, no prob, 2 layers of plastic, with an easy to apply, dry laquer holding them together, cheap as hell, they sure as hell don't wanna come up with a new glue.

edit: I hold mine butterside down, also, by the edges.

[Greenspock]

You are right... that edge may have problems with the oils in finger prints. Some DVD media don't have the bead of material around the edge of the disk, sealing it. Some, like the cheap princo stuff I have, you can practically pry the disks apart with your finger nails. The beaded edge appears to be a must then.

Hail! Hail! To the butter-side down crowd!

[jdizzy40]

If that stuff is that important, may I suggest laser film, followed by etching onto an electrostatic plate? Just a suggestion.

[zanos]

Greenspock,

Well, how do you hold them? Finger in the center hole, thumb on the edge? Same thing.

Eveyone here tells you to keep your oily fingers off the data surface.

The only other way I can see is to flip it out of the case onto your hand, upside down, and do a quick hand flip to slap it down onto the tray, possibly scratching it badly .

Any other ideas as to how to hold it?

Cheers,

George

LOL! If that's not a disaster in the making I don't know what is. The more ridiculously careful you are with anything the more likely you'll end up breaking it somehow