Need help looking for either a DV camera or good capturecard

[sjaguar13]

I'm going to be helping my brother's band with some video stuff. They need a music video, live shows, interviews, and a demo video. We want most of it to be a DVD. I have an analog camera. What capture card is good enough, or should I say screw it and get a DV camera? I haven't taped anything yet with the analog. If I should just get a DV camera, what's a good one? We kinda need professional quality, but we don't have much to spend.

[kazzer]

Mini DV will kick analog's ass! Depends on what your budget is, but I wouldn't go near an analog cam. The quality of DV is so good and its so easy for editing and archiving. Personally, I can recommend the Canon MV550i, but this model is being replaced by the 600 series.

[sjaguar13]

So even with a good quality capture card, the DV still beats analog? I have a really cheap capture card and the quality is horrible. It's all pixelated and stuff.

[kazzer]

In my opinion it does, because its so much simpler with alot less headaches. I tried analog capture before.
I would look at it like this:

1. You could get a DV cam for maybe 400 dollars/euros, which will beat or match any consumer capture card for quality when transferring the video.
2. Your master tapes wont degrade (look after them!)
3. No fiddling around with settings on your PC.
4. You dont need a very powerful PC for DV. Try capping at DVD with my specs!
5. If the footage is important to you (brothers band), its worth it I think.

[arcorob]

Well, lets hold on a second here. This is not entirely true.

If he wants FELXIBLITY he can spend about 250.00 and get an ADVC-100. That way he can capture analog OR digital. Makes it very easy to transfer VHS and the quality is great.

If he goes for a MINI-DV, very few have digital passthru. Those that do start at 600 or better so......Must weigh all options.

[yg1968]

He will be filming the video with the DV camcorder. So the passthrough is not necessary. Nevertheless, It would be useful to get a passthrough feature. Most Sony camcorders have it. The TRV-250 and TRV-19 do not have the passthrough feature but the higher end Sony models do.

[kazzer]

If he wants FELXIBLITY he can spend about 250.00 and get an ADVC-100. That way he can capture analog OR digital.

Excuse me, he gets that with a MiniDV cam (with digitizer).

Futhermore, can he use the ADVC-100 to shoot, high quality digital footage? No. He will be stuck with an inferior analog cam.

[arcorob]

Excuse me ! (No arguement here , just the facts). He does NOT get that with a digital cam UNLESS it features it. Analog to digital passthru is NOT as common as you think and NOT on the cheaper models. I know, I shop them every week and currently have 5 camera's...

So if he wants to stay cost efficient, he can find a NEW TRV340 on ebay with analog to digital passthru for about 360 plus shipping ..But then your talking Digital 8. For mini-dv, expect to pay 600 with analog to digital passthru.

[kazzer]

Excuse me ! (No arguement here , just the facts). He does NOT get that with a digital cam UNLESS it features it.

Are you BLIND? Read my last post, I specifically stated the camera would require a digitizer/passthrough/analog in whatever you wanna call it!

he gets that with a MiniDV cam (with digitizer).

I never said it came on cheaper models? Who mentioned budget?
The title of his post is "Need help looking for either a DV camera or good capturecard"

I have a DV camera and am giving him my opinion of this

[arcorob]

Far from blind .I read your post and answered accordingly.

You said he shoud go DV am and that it would cost him 400 US/EURO

I pointed out that doesn't address analog. He ALREADY HAS A CAMERA.

I am accurately answering his question, you are steering him to what YOU PREFER, not answering his question .

READ HIS POST instead of arguing with me. He is filming a band. Live shows also, etc. LOW LIGHT. Digital is NOT as good as analog in low light.
The interview and the rest, yes, digital.

So for under 300.00 my solution works. For 400 or much higher, you provide him with a partial solution.

Go argue with another poster, I am done.

[kazzer]

You said he shoud go DV am and that it would cost him 400 US/EURO

I didnt say he should do anything. I gave him my opinion. Is it just me, or is that not what this forum is about?.....the mind boggles.

He ALREADY HAS A CAMERA

Yes. But he says he's looking for a DV camera (or a capture card)

you are steering him to what YOU PREFER, not answering his question

Wrong. What would be my motive to steer him towards anything? I gave my opinion, so did you.

READ HIS POST instead of arguing with me

I did. I gave him my opinion of DV, then you started an argument.

So for under 300.00 my solution works. For 400 or much higher, you provide him with a partial solution.

Wrong. A DV camera with analog in provides it all. And he will have a brand new camera.

Digital is NOT as good as analog in low light

Is that conclusive? Or your opinion. If its true, ok.

[arcorob]

Wrong. A DV camera with analog in provides it all. And he will have a brand new camera.

But not for the price you stated. THAT WAS MY POINT.

Is that conclusive? Or your opinion. If its true, ok

quite conclusive ! By a factor of about 10.

Dont feel like arguing anymore so take care.......

[powaking]

I just picked up a Sony TRV22 and this one does have the passthru. It can be plugged into you computer via Firewire or USB (Firewire is the preferred choice). With Firewire you can capture video and audio in realtime. Results are stunning. Files can get rather large (about 100megs per 30 seconds so for 1 hour of DV raw video you're looking at 13gigs). Worse case scenario is you have to edit the file and then compress accordingly.

[kazzer]

quite conclusive ! By a factor of about 10.

Where did you get that information from? A book? A website? You sound very precise there. I'd like to know, since I own a digital camcorder myself.

[arcorob]

Working with Sony on the solution to digital darkness.

Average min LUX required of an Analog camera is 0.4 (4/10ths of 1 lUX) which for all intents is equivelant to a candle held within 3ft of the object.

Average for a digital is 4 to 7 LUX (not .4 not .7 ) which is equivelant to a 60 watt bulb or greater held within 3 ft of the subject.

In low lux instances, the analogs will get grainey and exhibit autofocus problems (at the veryu lower limit)

The digitals tend to stay stable BUT are GREY and grainey at a much higher light level.

Also, At levels in the 2 to 3 lux level, the ANALOGS are quite clear and precise.

At the same level, the digitals are at their extreme and VERY VERY dark.

For proof, do a side by side comparison.

Place two candles on a table with a couple behind, only illuminated by the candles.

Or Place a 100 watt lamp(covered) in a closed room with a subject in the room.

In either case, Tripod mount both cams. Film 30 seconds of the subjects. You can also pan to show movement and autofocus.

Now compare the two. Its a MAJOR difference, not just somewhat notciable.

[antonv]

The Digital cameras were better then (analog cam + capture card) 2-3 years ago when the max capture resolution was 352x240 and quality was really bad. Now almost all of the capture cards have 720x480 (DVD) resolution and great quality. The best ones are ATI and Dazzle cards. While now Resolution of Digital Camera = Resolution of capture card = 720x480, DV format is much more hard drive consuming then MPEG-2 and has a big dependability of CPU and your system. While you can buy the worst Digital Camera for $250+, you can buy ATI All-In-Wonder 7500 - One of the best capture cards+graphic cards nowadays - for $129 and you can get good capture card for $50 (Dazzle Fusion).

With capture card you can not only capture video from your camcorder, but from any source including VCRs e.t.c. The only disadvantage, in my opinion, is the time you need to spend to make capture card produce a good-quality Video file. The ammount of time is significantly greater for capture card while with Digital camera you pretty much just need to plug it in to USB/Firewire.

[jtor]

We kinda need professional quality, but we don't have much to spend.

You have to spend money to get any close to professional quality. If your target is going to be DVD, you want to start with a really nice source; so you might want to look at 3CCD camcorders.

If you're going to consider the 'low-light' debate that's been going on in this thread, note that lights in a concert are projected on the performers (and they are the ones you're going to shoot)....

my 2cents.

[sjaguar13]

Is there a big difference between the ATI All-In-Wonder and a DV camera? I have to get a new video card anyway. I found a JVC camera for $350. Would that be better?

[kazzer]

Whats the spec of your system sjaguar?

[kazzer]

sjaguar,

I think you should really decide which route you wish to take first.
Digital camera or Capture Card. I think the quality of captures from both solutions will be very close. It really comes down to budget, and whether you really want to get a new camcorder or not. Once you decide, then investigate the products on the market

[jeepers94]

I have an ADVC 100 as well as the Canon ZR65 DV camcorder.I can say the ZR65 will do just about everything the ADVC can do.It has firewire,and can do passthrough! I have used a vcr hooked to the camera and converted the video to dvd.I use My DVD Video Suite.The camera can be found for under $500 US.My ADVC cost me over $250,so the ZR65 is a better buy,IMO!

[sjaguar13]

My computer:

AMD Athlon 2.2Ghz
Asus A7V333 Mobo
512mb PC2700 RAM
180Gb 7200rpm hard drive

I am leaning more towards the capture card. The only thing that worries me is the quality. My current card is horrible. I am upgrading my video card and thought about the All-In-Wonder. If it will do a good job with my analog, I would rather just do that instead of paying twice as much for a camera and learn how to use it, and still need a video card. If it will be obvious I used an analog, I'd be willing to get the DV camera. I know nothing about them, though.

[tonyp12]

http://www.headlinedeals.com/clickdeal.aspx?clickid=2582

www.dell.com

[kazzer]

Well your system is very capable of capturing at DVD resolution, so if you really want to go with the capture card maybe you should do that and save some money. It's just a capture card solution wont be as straightforward as a camcorder solution.

[turk690]

One of my camcorders is a Sony DCRTRV22K, which I got new in Hong Kong for about US$500. It's true that analogue-to-digital pass through is NOT available on all models (the TRV22K is as basic as one can get; the model before this TRV19K doesn't have analogue in let alone pass through) but, in conjunction with a known FireWire card, the bunch beats a capture card alone (like, say, Matrox RTX10) in many areas, like the PC is not as taxed as it would be if digitization occurs within the PC. My FireWire card is an ADSTech Pyro Platinum Pro that comes with a full version of Premiere 6.5. Another very important factor is compatibility. sjaguar is using an Athlon-based system, which generally requires more tweaking for optimum performance (if not downright incompatible) from a particular analogue/digital capture card (manufacturers' support sites for such cards duly state which mobo/processor/memory/OS, etc. combo has been duly tested and guaranteed to work with said card). With a DV camcorder/FireWire set-up, the only thing one is introducing into the PC is a FireWire card which scarcely has compatibility issues in itself. Avoid buying these VGA cards that feature video-in, video-out (VIVO). As my experience has borne out the VIVO part is almost always an afterthought. And they often comes with proprietary codecs that may or may not be stable or even work with your favorite NLE, and support for 720x480/576 capture may not even be there (essential for DVD). These cards also may make you think capturing straight to MPEG-1/2 is a walk in the park (which you find out is not when you earnestly want to edit your clips). The card can influence greatly the capture quality, which turns out almost always wretched despite extensive tweaking. With the DV camcorder/FireWire card combo all there is to contend with is one codec (DV AVI, of whatever flavor you may get with it MainConcept, Microsoft, Panasonic, etc), and one resolution (720x480/576). The FireWire card/PC influences capture quality very little because digitization has been performed by the DV camcorder.