MMC 8.5 and stuttering/jerky capture

[westwingsw]

Hey all -

I'm having a problem with my ATI AIW 9000 Pro with MMC 8.5 on a Windows XP, P4, 1.5 GB RAM, 70 GB free HD computer. It probably has a simple answer and I'm hoping somebody (or a few of you) can help me out.

Anytime I try to watch or capture any sporting event, it never comes out right. For a few seconds, the video is crystal clear and perfect, but then it almost like stutters, or, at least, the players do, and everything slows down a bit and the video becomes slower/choppier for a few seconds, and then goes back to normal. Any ideas?

I thought it was a dropped frame issue, but when I capture with MMC 8.5, it doesn't record any frames as being dropped. And this happens when MMC is just playing TV, along with capturing. I even put ATIMMC.exe at "Realtime" in my Task Manager 'set priority', hoping to send more CPU resources the program's way, but that doesn't seem to help much.

Anybody have any suggestions? Or, if this is a resource problem, any other way to send more resources (which I have) to the MMC program to stop the suttering/jerkiness of the fast motion captures?

Thanks so much.

-Scott

[jamawass]

Do you defrag your hard drive before capture and close background running apps like instant messaging, virus software etc? Defragging has a major effect on capture quality. Never place an application on realtime on a single cpu system you could lock yourself out of your OS.

[westwingsw]

Yes, I did a defrag, but same problems. I just figured, with 1.5 GB of RAM, I'd have enough resources to not have the problem.

And I always do have a ton of system resources free and I'd love to send more to the MMC to help it along.

When people record sporting events, like football games or hockey games, with the fast motion, do they have the same problems? I'd be interested to hear people's experiences.

-Scott

[huntingtheasphyx]

To get the best captures its not enough to just defragment. Create a new partition devoted entirely to capturing and try to keep the physical location of the partition as close to the start of the disk as possible, as this is the fastest.

Also is your P4 quick enough for the type of ATI compression (MPEG2, WMV9, DivX etc.)

I have a AMD XP2200, only 512MB RAM and a drive devoted to capture with my ATI AIW8500DV and have no problems with capture at all.

Also make sure all screen savers and power management is turned off.
Any program or thread that starts running during the capture would take all the resources for a small time, taking away processing time for compression.

Also make sure all your ATI drivers are up to date, just a precaution.
Good Luck.

[westwingsw]

I appreciate the help, but I'm capturing normal TV and whatever just fine, with no problems, and minimal (at least according to MMC) dropped frames.

Even when I record/capture sporting events, MMC doesn't report any dropped frames.

My problem is specific to fast-motion sporting events. Has anybody tried to view/capture an NFL game for instance, and what have your experiences been if so?

Thanks.

-Scott

[jamawass]

I appreciate the help, but I'm capturing normal TV and whatever just fine, with no problems, and minimal (at least according to MMC) dropped frames.

Even when I record/capture sporting events, MMC doesn't report any dropped frames.

My problem is specific to fast-motion sporting events. Has anybody tried to view/capture an NFL game for instance, and what have your experiences been if so?

Thanks.

-Scott

In PVR settings make sure your motion estimation is set as close to 100% as possible without dropping frames.

[Sulik]

You'll also get smoother motion if you're capturing interlaced.

[westwingsw]

I appreciate all of the suggestions everyone...Just one more question.

All of your suggestions would make my capturing better, but does any of it explain why, just when I watch an NFL game, why the playback isn't smooth 100% of the time?

Capturing is one thing, but it should be clear watching it, right?

-Scott

[Nelson37]

I cap NFL games with my AIW 7500, no problems.

Can you watch on the PC and TV at the same time, and verify that the problem is NOT present on the TV display (which is not running thru the PC at all, I presume). The actual broadcast will occassionally have some similar issues.

Are you capturing to a second hard drive? If trying to cap to the same HD the OS is on, you are guaranteed to have problems. Also, check the location of the temporary file specified in MMC.

Are the PVR features active? If so, and the above paragraph applies, this may be your problem.

Double check that ALL other apps are disabled, Internet disconnected, clean power, etc.

Detail your screen resolution and color settings, cable type, connections, any other equipment connected to the video. Also verify that the problem occurs when viewing ONLY, with no capturing whatsoever going on.

[westwingsw]

Thanks for the help first off..

>>Can you watch on the PC and TV at the same time, and verify that the problem is NOT present on the TV display (which is not running thru the PC at all, I presume). The actual broadcast will occassionally have some simalar issues.<<

Yeah, no problems here. The picture on the TV is clear, no slow downs/stuttering. while viewing. And this is a viewing problem as much as it is a capturing problem.

>>Are you capturing to a second hard drive? If trying to cap to the same HD the OS is on, you are guaranteed to have problems. Also, check the loccaion of the temporary file specified in MMC.<<

This I am not doing. I have an 80 GB HD, but only one. Can I split them into two?

>>Are the PVR features active? If so, and the above paragraph applies, this may be your problem.<<

Nope. Not using PVR.

>>Detail your screen resolution and color settings, cable type, connections, any other equipment connected to the video.<<

I have a Dell Ultrasharp Flat Panel monitor running at 32 bits color at 1024 X 768. I have my cable wire plugged directly into the card.

>>Also verify that the problem occurs when viewing ONLY, with no capturing whtsoever going on<<

It is. Which is the frustrating part. It'll be fine and smooth, and then motion occours, and it slows up for two or three seconds, then goes back to normal for a few seconds. And because it's a viewing problem, and not just a capture problem, it's why I think it's not a hard-drive issue per se.

Would you think an uninstall of MMC and all the Catalyst drivers and then a reinstall might help?

Thanks again for the help. I appreciate it.

[Nelson37]

Uninstall and re-install solves many ATI problems. There is a detailed removal procedure at rage3d.com, be sure to follow it, it is necessary. Remove and re-seat the card itself while you're at it.

You will need a 2nd HD for capture, splitting the drive does absolutely nothing to reduce traffic to the drive, capture drive should be on a 2nd channel.

2 major suspicions -

1. You could be viewing in PVR mode, where everything is captured to a temp file, even if you have not selected to record. With your setup, this could easily cause your stutter. My MMC 8.1 has spontaneously entered PVR mode on several occassions.

2. It could be your monitor. Try a standard CRT, or use the TV-out. Some digital displays do suffer a "stutter" during hi-action scenes.

You could also have a defective card, I am on my 4th AIW and have never seen such a problem at any time. That doesn't mean it couldn't be a software or other problem, though.

[lordsmurf]

You'll also get smoother motion if you're capturing interlaced.

You may have that special combination of driver/MMC that inverts the interlace. Update your drivers (or roll back) as needed.

If the "stutterering" only happens at motion scenes, that's it. Interlace field inversion errors. Try another combination of drivers/MMC, or run the final capture through TMPGEnc with field priority set to TOP and run a re-encode real quick on the file.

[westwingsw]

Just a quick thing, because maybe this is a better way to describe my problem and it'll help you help me better.

If you look at CNBC, or FOX News, or any of those stations now, they have those tickers at the bottom of the screen. On my actual TV, the tickers are smooth.

On my computer, they are smooth, but then it's almost as if they start moving so fast the TV can't keep up so the text starts shaking/sutterting/whatever.

Hopefully that's a better way to describe it.

Since this is as much a just watching TV/MMC problem as it is a capture problem, how likely is it that it is my monitor? And if it is, is there anything I can do changing the settings on my monitor to make this problem go away?

-Scott

[Nelson37]

I'm gonna disagree with lordsmurf, I've had the field inversion problem and it only affected captured files, no visible effect on just viewing.

Time for some Isolate & Identify. Run a cable from the TV-out on the card to your TV, if the problem is not visible on the TV, then it's your monitor (which is quite possible with digital monitors), or possibly the DVI on the card, or maybe the drivers. Second test would be to run the coax into the VCR or Cable box and use composite or S-Video (NOT the Coax) out to the ATI card. If that works, then it's your coax input or tuner on the card, which is bad, but NOT the capture hardware, which is good. I find the S-Video gives significantly better picture, and I have to tune most channels through the box, anyway.

I hate to harp on this but are you ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that MMC is not running in PVR mode? This can happen without your selecting anything, and the screen appears only slightly different than standard capture mode. Try running both so you can identify the difference, I think the far left icon on the TV app makes the change. The reason I keep coming back to this is that with capture to the same HD that the OS is on will cause a very similar defect, and in PVR mode you are ALWAYS capturing.

I'm sorry, I've been using the wrong terminology. By PVR I meant to say TV-on-Demand, or timeshifting. The whole MMC is a PVR.