An understanding of this website

[vegeta23]

after reading through numerous topics and help forums and questions and how excellent and accurate the info is, yet the one thing still boggles my mind. if you guys are so much into ripping anyone a new hole for talking about bootleg movies then why put up this website? isn't obvious that whether it's bootleg or storebought dvd's, you're still copying movies either way. that's basically what this whole website is about. sure someone comes in here with a dumb question about ripping a movie bootleg or bought, but if you look through these help topics and forums, you're showing pictures of movies being ripped anyway. I respect the mods as far as rules go, but if this site is about copying movies to dvd's or cd's, then what's so different about a warez movie when you're messing with copyrights to begin with by copying these movies? What, is this site is for learning how to copy home made movies? get real

[Craig Tucker]

Under fair use it is acceptable to rip and make a backup copy of a DVD that you own. Many people do this to preserve the originals. Do you have kids ?

This is totally different to making copies of DVD's that you have not purchased (piracy), this is not tolerated on this site.

I am not going to pretend that people do not use the guides here for copying discs they do not have the right to, but discussing this practice on the forums is not allowed.

[flaninacupboard]

Backing up a DVD so you haven't lost £20 when your kids trash it is legal.
Backing up a disc incase you get burgled is leagal.
Backing up a disc incase your player eats it, or it wears out, or gets covered in scratches is legal.
Backing up a disc to play in your car is legal.

Encoding a movie you shot your self is legal.

Encoding a movie you captured yourself from a cable or satelite service you pay for is legal.

Backing up a VHS Beta laserdisc SVHS or 8mm film onto disc is legal.

That's why this website exists, and that's what 99% of members do. the other 1% come in, mouth off, and then either get banned or leave.

[FOO]

If we assume hypothetically that you are
right , then you have just made a post that
will make you very unpopular with everyone
on the forum. Why would you do that ?

[vegeta23]

ok that i do understand and yes i have a kid, but if you don't want your kids messing with it to begin with.....then put it up. I'm glad there is a site like this and making backups is great, but either way it's still voilating copyrights which should be a big rule on this site regardless of what media you're making backups from.

[vitualis]

Let me give you an analogy...

Removing tyres from a car

You could make a website/forum about this -- discussing the best ways to remove a tyre, the different jacks available, the benefit of one tyre brand over another, etc.

And this is fine as removing and changing tyres is quite a normal and legal activity.

However, if someone states that they are trading in stolen tyres or are asking the fastest way to remove a tyre with the undertone of theft, it is not only prudent for the site owner and administrator to warn/ban such a user, but it is an obligation.

It is no different here.

You obviously don't have a good understanding of copyright laws and I strongly suggest you do some research. The commonly taken interpretation of copyright and fair use is that you can make a personal backup/copy -- hence the information on this site about backing up DVDs.

Similarly, with VCDs and SVCD -- this is format shifting (e.g., like converting an audio CD you own to audio tape).

And there are of course the many people here who make/author their S/VCDs or DVDs from original content. This site is not only about DVD backup (in fact, it is only one of many discussion topics).

All these activities are perfectly legal and as they tend to be technical in nature, it is not surprising that there is a substantial community of people interesting in learning and sharing knowledge.

However, as with all things, knowledge can be used for illegal activities as well. Most people would consider that having an active policy against the discussion of illegal activities to be quite normal.

"Copying" any material you don't have right of access to (e.g., a rental, a friend's copy, pirated off the internet, etc.) is an obvious breach in intellectual property laws and we don't allow this on this site. As much as it is a legal/moral standpoint, it is also one of survival. Any site with as much traffic as one would quickly be closed down if it were to be seen as a harbour of "pirates".

Please read the forum rules/acceptable use policy here: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=124514

Regards.

[Gazorgan]

Oh yes, I can see telling my 8 year old daughter she can't watch her Disney Disks because she will scratch them. And she does....horribly. VHS isn't as bad now that she's older, but the VCR doesn't have the screw in it so I can clean the heads (cool-aid spilled on tapes). My first DVR was for here, with DivX'd copies of her favorite DVD's and tapes. Holds 40 GB (via a LAN) of movies that she browses to. Since she get's bored I change them out frequently.

[vegeta23]

ok....i'm not here to make enemies or whatever and i'll be the first to admit that creating this topic is wrong. i am sorry. i did research on the forum rules and it clearly states that this does not apply to rental or borrowed media. once again i'm sorry. but still, other than copying from the theather and trying to make profit......what's the difference between a backup copy and a pirate copy. and what if the original movies you make backups of gets stolen or damaged in anyway, what then becomes the backups you have? still backups? or what?

[vitualis]

what's the difference between a backup copy and a pirate copy. and what if the original movies you make backups of gets stolen or damaged in anyway, what then becomes the backups you have? still backups? or what?

The difference is something called the law...

It is "fair use" to make a backup of something you have bought as you've paid a license for the content. The backup is to prevent your loss of access to the content in the not unreasonable possibility of failure of the medium.

It is not fair use to get a pirate copy as you have broken intellectual property laws -- essentially, by getting something you don't have a right to.

If your original movies get stolen or damaged... well, that is the reason to have a right to backup!. Surely that is obvious.

Regards.

[pixel]

ok....i'm not here to make enemies or whatever and i'll be the first to admit that creating this topic is wrong. i am sorry. i did research on the forum rules and it clearly states that this does not apply to rental or borrowed media. once again i'm sorry. but still, other than copying from the theather and trying to make profit......what's the difference between a backup copy and a pirate copy. and what if the original movies you make backups of gets stolen or damaged in anyway, what then becomes the backups you have? still backups? or what?

A backup copy is a copy of a film which you can prove you legally own.
A pirate copy is a film which has been created and sold without authorisation of the studio/company who own the rights to the film.

You also just answered your own question ("and what if the original movies you make backups of gets stolen or damaged in anyway, what then becomes the backups you have? still backups? or what?") this is why backups are made, if the original gets stolen or damaged you have the backup to replace the original, but if you sell the original the backup must be destroyed.

(sorry, a clash with vitualis and he used better phrasing)

[FOO]

Have you actually thought about why you are here and what
exactly you are trying to say or do ?

[andkiich]

My definitions as I understand it(please forgive any definitions that are not complete as I may not have the best words to describe them efficiently)

backup copy = making an archival backup of a product you own to preserve the longevity of the original

pirate copy = making a copy of a product you do not own, rented, borrowed from another and either keep or sell for profit. In no way have you paid any monies due to the copyright owners. Downloaded movies from P2P would fall into this category if you do not already own the original. The P2P downloading is a bit on the iffy side for me because if you already own the originals, then why would you want to download an inferior(generally) movie?

Damage/Theft:
Damage: You still own the original, even if it is damaged to the point it can no longer be watched.

Theft: Honestly, I do not know about this one, I'll leave this to lawyers or those more knolwedgeable to answer.

Others, please chime in and correct or add to these definitions.

[Gazorgan]

Most of you are too young to "remember how it was". In the 80's you would get your very expensive softwsare via 5 1/2 inch disks. You then immediately XCOPY'd it to new disks. You then put your very expensive software away and worked exclusively from you backup copies. You did this because if a disk went bad you were hosed. There wasn't anywhere to download anything.

I remember doing this well into the 90's ( DOS, Lottus, Windows 2.0, 3.0) I remember the rubberband wrapped copies of windows 3.1 we sued to settup computers. Were we legal? Oh yes, very much so because we were told to do this by the software manufacturers. Did we have a license for every machine, of course, it's cheaper to buy a license over the actaul boxed version of the software.

The same rules that apply to software also apply to video and audio. I personally always work from backups over the originals. I can't tell you the number of times I've had a disk go bad (floppy/CD/DVD) from scratches, moisture, heat, drive that eats things, kids, dogs, whoops-I-Left-It-In-The-Machine, etc.

[vegeta23]

i've came to a conclusion that whatever i posted on this thread was just a misunderstanding. i did look at the rules, even did some searching on copyrights, fair use, and of dmca. i apoligize for coming up with thread, but all in all, but the thing i have to say the whole thing is this: if you copy something then that's fine, if your kids destroyed the original or first copy, then put the next one up and teach them not to destroy it anymore, and you're only allowed one backup copy and not many as it is stated in your rules unless you purchase the license to distribute copies, and that if you're gonna rip someone for asking about copying a pirated movie, just ban them instead of making them look stupid for asking in the first place. have a great day everyone

[flaninacupboard]

Honestly, I do not know about this one, I'll leave this to lawyers or those more knolwedgeable to answer.

Can't say i'm either, but the way i see it is this:
If you make a personal backup and the original is stolen, you have the right to use the backup. that's what it's for. however, if you make an insurance claim on the property that was stolen (inclduing discs you have backups of) then you must either destroy the backups right away, or re-purchase the discs. that is after all what the insurance settlement is for.

[housepig]

if you're gonna rip someone for asking about copying a pirated movie, just ban them instead of making them look stupid for asking in the first place.

my questions for you:

1. isn't a first-violation instant ban rather harsh?

2. would it be fair to say that a person asking about warez is making themselves look stupid, considering they had to scroll past lots of red-lettered "DO NOT" messages to post the question?

[poopyhead]

DMCA vs. FAIR USE

[lordsmurf]

you would get your very expensive softwsare via 5 1/2 inch disks. You then immediately XCOPY'd it to new disks. You then put your very expensive software away and worked exclusively from you backup copies. You did this because if a disk went bad you were hosed. There wasn't anywhere to download anything.

I still do this with CD software. Especially Adobe and Microsoft stuff.

[andkiich]

Flaninacupboard,

Sounds reasonable to me, and I think along the same lines, but I didn't have anything to back up my assertions on that, so I left it out.

It would probably go along with computer software, where you make a copy of the original, work from the backup, then if you sel the software, you'd need to destroy the backups.

[teddymines]

Information is just that: information. Some people use it to convert their old VHS tapes to a more permanent format. Others make fair use copies of media so that if the original gets destroyed they can still watch it. Still others make bootlegs.

There are ways to discourage the latter. Suggesting shutting down a site or restricting exchange of ideas/experience is not the answer. Instilling a sense of morals and ethics is a start, but clearly not a role of this resource.