VHS audio to MP3

[pixel]

I am planning to record music from my VHS tapes in sets of 2 hours. (audio cassettes aren't long enough).

I am planning on using Cool Edit for the recording and converting to MP3, in the hope of storing it on CD or DVD (for playback on my PC)

The thing is, I would like to keep the files as small as possible using 128kbps or 96kbps (not good quality I know but good enough for me).

Does anyone suggest converting with this quality or lower quality even to store as much as I can on a disc? (remember it is coming from VHS) And could helpful people please post how much an hour of each quality compression of mp3 will take up?

[geek rock]

actually, a stereo VHS tape played back on a decent stereo VCR has very good sound quality.

if you really are limited to space, then i'd suggest using another audio format such as ogg vorbis. a 128kbps ogg vorbis file will sound much, much better than an 128kbps mp3 file.

if you have to use mp3 files, try using 160kbps or 192kbps.

one minute of 160kbps mp3 is about 1.2 MB.

one minute of 192kbps mp3 is about 1.4 MB.

-Mark

[Supreme2k]

I don't know how many tapes you have, but a single cd can hold about 10 hours of 192kbps MP3s. Since CD are about a nickel, you could pretty much fit your like story on a 50-pack in HQ

[MOVIEGEEK]

If you will only listen to the music on your PC I would save as OGG or WMA9 at 128kbps.Another good program for recording,converting,ripping and playing OGG files is CDex.
www.cdex.n3.net

[pixel]

Thanks all for your help. Its a great help.

@MOVIEGEEK thanks for that link. I've been looking for software to play and record OGG.

[pixel]

I don't know how many tapes you have, but a single cd can hold about 10 hours of 192kbps MP3s. Since CD are about a nickel, you could pretty much fit your like story on a 50-pack in HQ

Its a punk radio show. (The only one in the UK) But its on at 2AM so theres no chance of me staying up to listen to it or record it using my wavefinder, so I have to use VHS cassettes.

I have actually decided (against your suggestions) to record it as 64kbps at 24000Hz. This will mean I can fit a years worth of shows (with space for the xtra shows they do) on one DVD.
I choose this quality because it is from an FM Radio broadcast. (I am goind to try out encoding to OGG now.)

[EddyH]

OK, dude, having done almost exactly the same thing before (just with the show that's on a different night!), a couple ideas. Pushy ones, yeah, but hey.. its the internet.. i wont be devastated if you totally ignore it all.

1. get hold of musicmatch jukebox. an archived copy of version 6 if possible - less spyware, to name just one advantage.

2. hunt around in the settings and have these selected:
* frequency cutoff should NOT be automatic - if you're going to rip some CDs to 128kbit, put the slider to 16khz. For FM radio (these days) use 15khz... it'll be the equivalent of around 30000hz and spot-on for the broadcast quality. (see note-1 at bottom)
* "encoder quality" should be normal. high and highest had bugs that actually made them sound worse - and were about 5x and 20x slower! Normal can work realtime on anything from about a P233..
* recording to MP3 (or if you have the disc space - WAV, and recode later with filters and stuff), at maybe 160 or 192kbit. At 15khz cutoff, 192kbit will sound sweeeet and you'll still get a good 5 shows on each disc. Which is like a year's listening for less than a ten pound note if it's the show i think you mean.

3. keep hunting and you'll find the pivotal treasure of this post.. the time-delay recording feature. make sure your PC clock is accurate, set it to start a minute before the show is sheduled, for 2h and 2 mins, hook the PC up to the radio and check the recording levels, then press the RECORD button in musicmatch. hopefully it'll say something like waiting for set time, rather than the numbers immediately counting up. Then go to bed, and pick up your shiny fresh mp3 or wav in the morning!

Good luck...


(dont get me wrong, nothing against recording on VHS - used to pack interesting talk radio programs past my bedtime onto 5-hour tapes.. in longplay too.. when i was younger. But now that's not necessary and is just needless hassle. record direct to the pc, perfectly possible, efficient, better quality (stereo VHS still has a fairly high noise level) and pretty easy really)
(disclaimer - theres probably hundreds of other programs available that can do similar. i'm not trying to advertise MMJB, it's just the one i've personally used and know)

(note-1:
If you use 24000hz recording you'll lose quality. The idea that the quality you chose is "FM radio" is a total falsehood.. whoever arbitrarily chose that (and somehow spread the label into at least 50% of recorder programs worldwide) without double checking should be shot - 32khz is far closer than 22 or 24khz, and 64kbit really won't do this kind of material (punk) justice, probably not even with OGG. Trust me, putting it on more than one DVD really won't inconvenience you that much, it's not like a movie that you have to get up and change halfway... you're going to be packing many weeks worth of material onto that disc - why not have it sound good and put it on two or three discs, they'll fit just as easily together into a standard sized DVD box if you get one with extra holders. Or are you planning on a hospital stay where you wont be able to get up to change the disc for a few days??)

[pixel]

Thanks EddyH!

Great help. (And yes, it probably is the show you're thinking of. There aren't any other punk shows I know of. I think I also know the show that you are talking about as well.)

Here is what I actually do, its Monday, so a school night and I can't stay up till 2am otherwise I won't get up in the morning, so I set my Freeview box to the radio station (my FM reception and stereo tuner are crap) set my VCR to record and do it that way.

I just use my video capture drive to record to waves (always done it that way) so no space issues.

I have tried 2 shows at 64kbit (They had a special show on after the normal scheduled one) and they don't sound too great, so I had thought about using at least 96kbps at 44100Hz and at the max about 160kbps to encode at. I will try these out on normal tracks from a CD first to save time.

As for the recorder/encoder I just use Cool Edit 2000, I have had no issues with it and can cut the start and end from the show easily.

[pixel]

I have changed my mind now. I have chosen to use a bitrate of 160kbps and frequency of 44kHz. I know you might call the frequency wastage but I don't mind that.

I can now fit a whole years shows (even with space for the extras they do) onto 2 DVD's instead of one, with almost 3 times the quality, thanks EddyH.

As for my VCR creating noise, there is none that I notice (my VCR is a JVC HRS-7500) compared to my old Sharp VCR (which was still pretty expensive). I do notice some noise when played at exceedingly high volumes on high quality speakers, but that is it. I record all my tapes on standard play and use high quality cassettes (usually pay about £2/cassette for standard VHS).

Thanks for everyones help, it is greatly appreciated.

[EddyH]

Glad to be of help just for once...

The extra frequency isn't wastage at all.. there's hardly any data except background noise there in the first place (and it wouldnt be a waste if there was), and the encoder will be blanking out everything over 15k anyhow, so it works much like the black bars on a VCD encode.. probably losing a few bits, but never mind - at 44khz, it'll be far more compatible than pretty much any frequency, as it's CD standard. e.g. if you want to use the wave-chopping function in Nero to burn certain songs from the show, it won't need to up or down sample first.

you are obviously a being of taste with some technical ability pretty much all of what else you said sounds fine, esp in last two posts. just remember - you want to up that frequency ceiling from 15/16k if you're capping from CD at higher bitrates than 160.

As for the video.. well.. what do I know on that really .. our VCR is probably 7 years old at the least by now. It's digital calendar will run out of years pretty soon (i checked). Good in it's day, but wearing out, and the sound quality never was so hot when it was new - just a little bit better than normal audio tape (6-head Mitsubishi.. guess only 2 of them were for audio).

Just to swap guesses.. yours starts with an L, and mine has (well, had) a dude initialed J?

good luck and happy listening...


* very late and needless addendum - when i said 5 shows on one disc, that was of course a 700mb CDR

[thxkid]

well use to use the SVHS JVC to tape audio also, but since going to DVD stand alone recorders the qaulity is much higher 256 2 channel DD Mpeg, can boost the audio even higher to 384 and thats in either the 2 or 4 hour modes. Have 2 recorders, set the timers at 4 hours each, set the dishnet on the digital CD channel I want or the receiver on a FM station and record away for 8 hours. Then what ever program you like to record to wav, MP3, WMA or RM on your computer.

[vance43211]

hi fi vcr has audio spec comparable to cd

a lot of audiophiles, including myself, use this format to record music before cd burners came out

as it was the best affordable recording format

it had about the same specs as a 16 bit cd

reel to reel was getting played out

and everbody couldn't afford a dat or dcc cassette



hey EddyH

how do you use musicmatch jukebox to record from the line in

i knew you could do it but i just couldn't figure out how

i have 7.5 plus

[pixel]

Glad to be of help just for once...

you are obviously a being of taste with some technical ability pretty much all of what else you said sounds fine, esp in last two posts. just remember - you want to up that frequency ceiling from 15/16k if you're capping from CD at higher bitrates than 160.

Just to swap guesses.. yours starts with an L, and mine has (well, had) a dude initialed J?

good luck and happy listening...

Well thank you, being a 15 year-old I have never had many compliments on my technical abilitites.

Well, you have guessed the show I listen to right, although I'm not quite sure about yours but I think its on Tuesday nights and begins with an R.

@thxkid guessing by your name you know quite a bit about audio. I have planned on getting a standalone DVD recorder or HDD recorder in the near future, but am stuck with video cassettes for the moment.

At the moment I am using VHS cassettes (Philips and Maxell) the Philips are much better though so I use them, but I have some JVC SVHS cassettes lying unopened (which is very stupid as most of my recordings go straight to my computer and onto DVD's, but I just use VHS because I have more of them and want all my recordings to have the same initial resolution, not a mixture of VHS and SVHS). The qustion is will I get better sound quality by using these SVHS cassettes?

@vance43211 about musicmatch jukebox, I'm guessing you have the basic (free) version. To record from line in you have to have the plus (payware) version.

[pixel]

One last small problem.

I have an ATI AIW, which has a loop-through to the line in (onbaord soundcard). I unplugged this and put the lead straight into here so that I did not have to start the ATI application and Cool Edit to record audio. The problem is that I tried this but no matter what I couldn't get the recording level to stop going over and now I have one show which is like this but I cannot record it again because I recorded over the tape (I have a weakness for watching Dilbert). Can anyone tell me if there is a way to repair this or am I stuck with it?

Can you help me with this, EddyH?

I managed to fix the problem by connecting the stereo output from my VCR to my AIW through the audio loop-through and can record without going over, and can just normalize the audio at a later stage, but there must be a way without having to start the ATI application?

TIA, pixel

[vance43211]

@vance43211 about musicmatch jukebox, I'm guessing you have the basic (free) version. To record from line in you have to have the plus (payware) version.

i have the plus version

The problem is that I tried this but no matter what I couldn't get the recording level to stop going over and now I have one show which is like this but I cannot record it again because I recorded over the tape (I have a weakness for watching Dilbert). Can anyone tell me if there is a way to repair this or am I stuck with it?

what do you mean?

are you recording it too loud?

if so you can go in control panel and turn it down.

[pixel]

@vance43211 about musicmatch jukebox, I'm guessing you have the basic (free) version. To record from line in you have to have the plus (payware) version.

i have the plus version

I don't know if it is a problem that you don't know where the record function is or you just have no sound when you select line in?

I don't know if you're video card has a loop-through for your audio, but if it does, unplug the loop-through and plug the cable straight into the line in or have your video app running in the background whilst recording from the line in.

[vance43211]

i use other programs(roxio audiocentral, mymp3 pro) to record vhs audio tapes and cassette to my hard drive

but i would like to use musicmatch

as i don't have mymp3pro on my computer (it's on my wife's comp)

mymp3pro and musicmatch are kissing cousins that why i know it can do it, but i can't figure it out

[pixel]

Well if you just move along the dropdown menu bar in the program there is an option for "record from line in" or something along those lines.

I hope this is the answer you were looking for.

You could always try the MMJB site.

[vance43211]

maybe my version don't have it



the record button that on mine is for ripping cds

i guess i will ask musicmatch

[pixel]

I've only seen the function on MMJB 8

No wonder I couldn't tell you how it worked (short term memory of a peanut) but you should be able to because EddyH says you can do it with MMJB 6.

Maybe try upgrading to 8, you shouldn't have to pay.

[vance43211]

they told me i had to pay because i didn't purchase the lifetime upgrade pack

[pixel]

Well, I'm stumped.

[vance43211]

i just found it

i click option/recorder/source/ line in

thanks for letting me know it was there

[EddyH]

just a short thing to see if i actually need to jump back in this pool... only skimmed the thread really so Qs may already have been answered.

1. MMJB troubles - this is why i said hunt down version 6 i downloaded v7 expecting a nice upgrade... uninstalled, reverted, and spat on 7's grave within a week.. easier layout and a totally derestricted free version!

2. pixel, say that again, slower, with breathing between sentences? was that about video capture or just audio? um.. try just reconnecting your cable?

[pixel]

just a short thing to see if i actually need to jump back in this pool... only skimmed the thread really so Qs may already have been answered.

1. MMJB troubles - this is why i said hunt down version 6 i downloaded v7 expecting a nice upgrade... uninstalled, reverted, and spat on 7's grave within a week.. easier layout and a totally derestricted free version!

2. pixel, say that again, slower, with breathing between sentences? was that about video capture or just audio? um.. try just reconnecting your cable?

It's OK. I sorted it out by myelf. It was an issue with the onbaord sound, but I'm getting a seperate soundcard so I won't have any further problems.

[EddyH]

ok, i managed to extract some meaning about an over-amplified recording of dilbert... best you can do in this situation really is, using cooledit (or equivalent)

0. rip the sound out... load it in

1. amplify to something less than 100%... depends on how bad the over amping is, and requires a mix of experience and fudge as to how low you need to go. For the purposes of the exercise, I'll assume that 80% is OK (it *should* be.. only ever tried to 'repair' one thing that was far gone enough to need 75%... normally, for minor errors, 95 or 90 does). AMPLIFY ***WITHOUT*** THE DC BIAS ADJUST BOX CHECKED. Cooledit adjusts the bias before amping, which is usually a good idea, but not in cases where you need the data to be shrunked FIRST to avoid (re)clipping.

2. run amplify again - at 100% (amplify 100% ie no change, NOT normalize 100%), WITH DC Bias enabled, to 50%. There is a preset for this called Center Wave.

3. Play the file and see if it's fixed / fixed 'enough'. A visual way of looking for it is a/ in wave-trace mode, look for the flattened top/bottom ends of the wave (clipped to the same 80% level) 'roughening' out again.. regaining the previous curvature, or an estimation of it. b/ in spectral mode, look for the full-spectrum high intensity 'bursts' at each clicky/crackly point easing off to a more normal appearance.

4. If it's not enough - and, especially if it's from a limited-frequency source, so clipped areas have a notably higher bandwidth than the others - you can try filtering out some of the higher frequencies and very-low ones. Down-amp it again if needs be (ie the DC adjustment has rounded out the clipping so much that the wave goes to 95% full or more in places) and, I dunno, have a filter graph that looks like: 0 (or 20)hz: 0% / -30db, 60hz 0% / 0db, 100hz 100% / 0db, 14000hz 100% / 0db (flat "no change" 100-14k), 16500 to 19000 (your choice) 0% / -30db - and flat at that level up to the nyquist (highest frequency). This also gets rid of mains hum and *some* background hiss. I'll assume that LFE and high trebles aren't a priority for Dilbert..

5. If it still sounds bad after that... well... live with the patched version best you can... or excercise your right to a viewable copy of the program (you *do* have the legal right, dont you? ) and find..um... some kind benefactor who can source a clean copy of the audio somehow. (the rules oblige me to leave you figure that one out by yourself).

works wonders on a whole variety of knackered sources. makes them tolerable anyway. doesn't work so great on silibant S's, but can muffle them a bit.
don't forget the 15.625 / 15.75 / 16.375 cut-out notch filters, either, if its from a broadcast or VHS source

[pixel]

Thanks again EddyH The problem was actually the radio show was recorded to my PC incorrectly and I had recorded over the original with Dilbert

But I'll give that a try and see how it goes.

[vitualis]

You can do all the above with TotalRecorder -- the scheduling on that program is very good and a lot less bloated than MusicMatch.

Not to mention, you can use it to create time specific ID3 tags as well if you record straight to MP3 (install the Lame MP3 ACM codec).

I used to do this to record a number of radio programs that I couldn't listen to otherwise because I'd be working.

Regards.

[pixel]

You can do all the above with TotalRecorder -- the scheduling on that program is very good and a lot less bloated than MusicMatch.

Not to mention, you can use it to create time specific ID3 tags as well if you record straight to MP3 (install the Lame MP3 ACM codec).

I used to do this to record a number of radio programs that I couldn't listen to otherwise because I'd be working.

Regards.

I'll try that too.

[EddyH]

Well that makes things even easier then - when you've done the amp-down and bias adjust, you can just filter out everything above 15khz

Hmm, totalrecorder, sounds interesting (can't deny MMJB is a little large, but hey, we live in a gigabyte society )... will have to give it a look next time i need time delay recording.